eBay

cicli_john · ‎03-19-2024

I cannot find a situation quite like mine after searching "payment disputes with financial institution" I am appreciate of the outcome for me but feel bad for e-bay if this is how these cases end up....

On 1/29/24 I sold a book for $125. I always purchase postage through e-bay and they have recorded that the book was delivered on 2/2 (not bad for media mail NY to Montana). Buyer left positive feedback and even sent a couple of e-bay messages to me. The first saying that they left feedback and the second about how excited she was with the book as she was getting into it (hey, its a good Stephen King book).

3/16 I received the following from e-bay:

buyer filed a payment dispute for an order placed on Jan 29, 2024. This means that they disputed a charge directly with their payment institution. They are requesting $125.60 back and the reason for this dispute is that the buyer did not recognize the transaction. The good news is that you’re protected for this dispute under eBay seller protection policy

Today I receive the following:

The buyer’s payment institution sided with the buyer. The good news is that you’re protected for this dispute under eBay seller protection policy. We won't deduct the dispute amount from your funds. You're not required to take any action at this time.

I am not out any money but I assume e-bay had to refund the buyer....that is just not right. There is no way for me to respond to the dispute reminding e-bay that the buyer received the item and I have written proof she is happy with it.

I keep an eye on what my feedback number is and before writing this I noticed it dropped by 1 and sure enough, I can no longer find her feedback but on the sellers hub under orders paid and shipped it still shows the green plus that she left feedback. Can a buyer retract feedback? She was probably trying to cover her tracks unless e-bay removed it.

Anyway, that's my story and I am happy that at least for now I am not out any money...and yes, I have blocked the buyer.

dbfolks166mt · ‎03-22-2024

ALL Money Processors have to be the MOR [merchant of record] or they would not be able to process the payments. PayPal was the MOR when they were our money processor too.

Fully realize that.

While the sellers do not have any "control" in this process that doesn't mean they can't submit evidence regarding the transaction.

I am not sure the seller has that ability. It has been awhile since I had one of these but at that time you could NOT provide anything in response to the notification.

Ebay has no legal right to try and force buyers to file a claim in Ebay before going to their CCC. With that said, I do believe the laws that do control this process need to be updated and brought into the current way of doing business. So much has changed over the years.

Fully realize eBay has no legal authority to make the buyer utilize the eBay process prior to going to the ir CC company which probably doesn't make the CC company all that happy. The laws are WAY past due for amending they are all 50+ years old.

mam98031 · ‎03-22-2024

@dbfolks166mt wrote:

While the sellers do not have any "control" in this process that doesn't mean they can't submit evidence regarding the transaction.

I am not sure the seller has that ability. It has been awhile since I had one of these but at that time you could NOT provide anything in response to the notification.

I'm not sure what more to tell you. I provided an excerpt of the Ebay policy and a link to the full policy that states sellers can submit evidence on a Chargeback. Maybe you overlooked my post?!? Post # 40.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

gurlcat · ‎03-22-2024

@mam98031 wrote:

Now with that said, I have a proactive type of personality. In the past when I've had Chargebacks like this or any Chargeback for that matter, I gather the evidence and submit it myself. That is just my own personal procedure. I realize others have different opinions and/or procedures.

I think I see what you're confused about. -You are picturing the type of open "case" where there is a Details page, showing updates, and specifically a place where you can enter evidence, type a personal response, etc. -That is not what the OP got this time. She just got 2 email messages from eBay that simply informed her of what was going on, not an open interface for her to respond in any way. That was the main concern of her thread, that she wished there was a way to alert eBay (in case they hadn't checked) to the fact that this buyer had written emails expressing personal satisfaction, but there was no such avenue to be proactive even if she wanted to.

So really these messages from eBay were more like the ones we get when an EIS buyer does a return, just letting the seller know but not requiring, requesting, or even enabling any input or action, because it won't affect the seller anyway. That's what I meant about it appearing to be a step in the "fairer" direction for sellers. Anything getting more like EIS is A-OK with me!

bennotbill · ‎03-22-2024

@gurlcat wrote:
Maybe this is naive of me, but I'm hoping that the OP's experience is a sign that eBay could be reversing their unfair treatment of sellers, in terms of making them provide evidence that eBay could harvest and supply themselves (from sellers' accounts, to which eBay has full access) ... and STILL taking the money from sellers' accounts + $20 when the cases are found in favor of buyers.

What do you think @bennotbill @dbfolks166mt @isaiah53-57 ? Is this an absurd thing to hope for?

While I would like to think that maybe eBay is making more of an effort to help sellers, the underlying problem is what effort do they actually make? It's all hidden. There is no three way "chat". It's all between eBay and the buyers bank. The seller is an outsider in the process.

I know the seller can provide info to eBay but what do eBay, if any, supply to the buyers bank?

dbfolks166mt · ‎03-22-2024

@dbfolks166mt wrote:

While the sellers do not have any "control" in this process that doesn't mean they can't submit evidence regarding the transaction.

I am not sure the seller has that ability. It has been awhile since I had one of these but at that time you could NOT provide anything in response to the notification.

I'm not sure what more to tell you. I provided an excerpt of the Ebay policy and a link to the full policy that states sellers can submit evidence on a Chargeback. Maybe you overlooked my post?!? Post # 40.

No I saw the post. As with a lot of eBay policies they sometimes lag or are in a catchup mode when eBay makes a process change or is inconsistent in a process. When eBay first changed over to MP I used to get a fair number of these types of chargebacks because eBay/Adyen changed the information they were passing to the CC company and buyers were not catching the change or making the connection to eBay based on their CC statements.

Early on I did in fact have to respond to the chargeback with uploaded information but at some point that changed and eBay started handling these internally. Although I received notification of the chargeback I was unable to accept or dispute the chargeback and I could not upload any information regarding the case.

mam98031 · ‎03-22-2024

@gurlcat wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:

Now with that said, I have a proactive type of personality. In the past when I've had Chargebacks like this or any Chargeback for that matter, I gather the evidence and submit it myself. That is just my own personal procedure. I realize others have different opinions and/or procedures.
I think I see what you're confused about. -You are picturing the type of open "case" where there is a Details page, showing updates, and specifically a place where you can enter evidence, type a personal response, etc. -That is not what the OP got this time. She just got 2 email messages from eBay that simply informed her of what was going on, not an open interface for her to respond in any way. That was the main concern of her thread, that she wished there was a way to alert eBay (in case they hadn't checked) to the fact that this buyer had written emails expressing personal satisfaction, but there was no such avenue to be proactive even if she wanted to.

So really these messages from eBay were more like the ones we get when an EIS buyer does a return, just letting the seller know but not requiring, requesting, or even enabling any input or action, because it won't affect the seller anyway. That's what I meant about it appearing to be a step in the "fairer" direction for sellers. Anything getting more like EIS is A-OK with me!

I posted the policy on this. We can respond to Chargebacks. I'm not sure why we are still arguing this point. Per Ebay you can respond to a Chargeback. My personal experience is I've responded to Chargebacks.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

gurlcat · ‎03-23-2024

Okay, then where could the OP have responded to this chargeback?

mam98031 · ‎03-23-2024

@gurlcat wrote:
Okay, then where could the OP have responded to this chargeback?

It was in the policy link I previously provided, but here it is again for your ease.

When your buyer opens a payment dispute, we’ll contact you to let you know what the next steps are. To respond, you'll need to either accept or challenge the payment dispute within 5 calendar days - if you don’t respond, the payment institution is likely to find in your buyer's favor. You can respond through My eBay Sold or Requests and disputes in Seller Hub. The final outcome will be decided by the buyer’s payment institution.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

gurlcat · ‎03-23-2024

Okay that would be for a normal payment dispute. That is not what this OP got. There was no dispute page for her to go to.

cicli_john · ‎03-23-2024

Correct, there was no dispute page for me to go to and I did not have an option to accept or challenge the dispute

The e-mail I received from e-bay was very clear that I was protected under e-bay seller protection policy see below:

The good news is that you’re protected for this dispute under eBay seller protection policy. We'll close this dispute once we receive the dispute outcome from the buyer’s payment institution. You're not required to take any action right now. If the buyer updates the dispute, we will let you know if any further action is required.

But wait, there is more... like many of you following this posting I am want to learn more about what happened. I eventually figured how to speak on the phone with a live person with e-bay this afternoon but she was just giving canned responses when I asked why this turned out in the buyers favor. She did not say much specific to my situation. She noted something like..... I am not saying this is what happened here but people say that they are not the one who purchased the item. The rep. also noted that they provided the buyers financial institution with "everything". However, she did not specifically comment on the positive message about the book the buyer sent me when I asked. She also noted that e-bay removed the positive feedback that the buyer had left me before closing the dispute.

mam98031 · ‎03-23-2024

@gurlcat wrote:
Okay that would be for a normal payment dispute. That is not what this OP got. There was no dispute page for her to go to.

OMG, I can't help you. The policy is clear, but you simply don't agree with it. Ebay doesn't use the term Chargebacks, they use the word Dispute.

However you are correct, on the Seller Hub it is called "All Open Returns / Replacements" in the Order box.

Ebay often uses different words, IMHO to keep us on our toes. It certainly does make it challenging to say the least when trying to explain a policy or learn one.

When your buyer opens a payment dispute, we’ll contact you to let you know what the next steps are. To respond, you'll need to either accept or challenge the payment dispute within 5 calendar days - if you don’t respond, the payment institution is likely to find in your buyer's favor. You can respond through My eBay Sold or Requests and disputes in Seller Hub. The final outcome will be decided by the buyer’s payment institution.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

mam98031 · ‎03-23-2024

@gurlcat wrote:
Okay that would be for a normal payment dispute. That is not what this OP got. There was no dispute page for her to go to.

NO as Ebay doesn't call them Chargebacks, sellers do. Ebay calls them disputes.

@dbfolks166mt and @gurlcat

Here is some more information for you.

Improvements to our payment dispute process

A payment dispute is when a buyer requests reimbursement for the amount paid for an eBay transaction directly from their payment institution (e.g., credit card company, PayPal, bank, etc.). To help sellers resolve these scenarios, we’ve improved the process of submitting information to challenge a payment dispute.

Benefits to the improved experience

After listening to sellers’ feedback, we’ve made the following improvements:

Sellers now have the ability to add details and explain their reason for challenging a payment dispute by providing text up to 1000 characters.
Sellers can now upload up to 5 separate files of information such as tracking details, shipping labels, messages, and photos. Previously only a single file could be uploaded, which required multiple files to be combined into one.

We’ll share the information you provide with the buyer’s payment institution to challenge the payment dispute. The information you submit may also improve your chances of qualifying for seller protections.

https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/resources/seller-updates/2023-summer/business

I know that for the OP that Ebay told them in the email that they did not need to respond to the Chargeback. And that is fine, but that doesn't mean they CAN'T respond to the Chargeback, it is just that Ebay feels they is no need for it. That is completely different from can't respond.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

gurlcat · ‎03-24-2024

LOL well I guess theoretically anyone "can" do anything they want in their mind or something. Maybe you didn't see message #55 where the OP reiterated that there was no dispute page where she could do a response like what you keep talking about (which I am already keenly familiar with, but cannot seem to make clear to you it was NOT what this dispute had).

mam98031 · ‎03-24-2024

@gurlcat wrote:
LOL well I guess theoretically anyone "can" do anything they want in their mind or something. Maybe you didn't see message #55 where the OP reiterated that there was no dispute page where she could do a response like what you keep talking about (which I am already keenly familiar with, but cannot seem to make clear to you it was NOT what this dispute had).

You can laugh all you want. The truth of how it works is in the policy pages in which I provided multiple times. Because some members haven't located where to see a Chargeback doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But what it means is the member was not able to locate it.

The OP was told in the email they got from Ebay that they did not need to respond to the Chargeback, NOT that they couldn't respond to the Chargeback. Big difference in those two things.

Here is another active thread that the OP DID submit their evidence on the Chargeback. I'm not sure if you will believe this OP as you don't believe Ebay's written policy either. But here it is anyway for your review if you want to.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyer-submits-payment-dispute-4-months-after-delivery/m-p/3436...

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

dbfolks166mt · ‎03-24-2024

LOL well I guess theoretically anyone "can" do anything they want in their mind or something. Maybe you didn't see message #55 where the OP reiterated that there was no dispute page where she could do a response like what you keep talking about (which I am already keenly familiar with, but cannot seem to make clear to you it was NOT what this dispute had).

That has been my experience also with these types of disputes although I have not had one in awhile. But the last one I had similar to the OP's where I received an informatory message from eBay I was unable to take any action or provide any input.