Buyer Claims Item is missing with USPS Damage Labels oddly placed - Possible Fraud?

[chaos-games.llc]

Sold an item and the buyer sent me message a few hours after delivery that it was missing. The photo they attached in the message shows two USPS damage labels that were suspiciously placed on the package with an opening clearly off placed from the labels. I would suspect that if this were internal theft that it's quite odd an employee would take a chance on random package opening to thieve in this way. As of now, I'm filing a claim for USPS mail fraud and communicating with the buyer to determine if they are persistent on wanting to handle this claim of theft. Looking for advice and others stories concerning receiving anything similar in claims from buyers. How did it turn out?

[chaos-games.llc]

Still no reply by the buyer. Messaged them for the fourth time with the supervisor's contact information at the local PO which delivers to their location. So, out of 4 eBay messages, a text and email, then they've yet to reply. Thanks for the insight on the package. I did notice that it appeared sliced but didn't put together about when they are damaged from mechanical sorting that it wouldn't be so neat. I'm leaning towards a shady buyer. Some of the replies on here with simple "Just refund and toss it up as a loss" sound either lazy or people who use the same **bleep** to steal from others.

[coffeebean832]

@chaos-games.llc- The buyer hasn't opened any sort of claim yet, right? All they did was send a message?

[chapeau-noir]

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@chaos-games.llc wrote:

Still no reply by the buyer. Messaged them for the fourth time with the supervisor's contact information at the local PO which delivers to their location. So, out of 4 eBay messages, a text and email, then they've yet to reply. Thanks for the insight on the package. I did notice that it appeared sliced but didn't put together about when they are damaged from mechanical sorting that it wouldn't be so neat. I'm leaning towards a shady buyer. Some of the replies on here with simple "Just refund and toss it up as a loss" sound either lazy or people who use the same **bleep** to steal from others.

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They're actually experienced sellers who have been through stuff like this before - sometimes it's not worth fighting, sometimes it is - eBay doesn't give we sellers much latitude so it  comes down to how much time any of us want to spend on something like this - that's variable.  So I believe those are honest opinions.

[gurlcat]

The martyr complex is strong here. No matter how outrageous the scam or how insufficient the information, you will have people telling you that you're being a baby and to give the scammer what they want.   They act like YOU are a bad business person if you don't just cave at the drop of a hat.   "The customer is always right" is nothing but a stupid cliche, the type of simplistic directive given by a pizza restaurant owner to the 20-year-old night shift manager, knowing that it will result in some net profit loss, some of that to scammers, but is a better risk than permanent loss of good customers because they had a legit complaint, never mind some high-tension incident that culminates in ambulances and news reporters, lol.   This is a whole other kind of business we do here though. 

Truth be told, you do sometimes see newbie or pitifully stubborn sellers posting about situations where they're definitely in the wrong, or at least ebay will definitely see it that way.  If only I had a buck for every seller who thinks they shouldn't have to accept a return for clothing because they provided all the measurements in their description--like, the point isn't whether or not the buyer READ the description, it's whether all the measurements in the world can be as meaningful as trying something on;  how do you not get that there's a difference between fitting and fitting WELL?! 

I truly CODDLE my people, like just last night I sent a message to a buyer whose tracking shows her item stuck the past several days, just to let her know I'm keeping an eye on it, which she thanked me for.  I did that with all my slow/stuck tracking buyers during this past fall/winter's Shipnado disaster, did TONS of business and didn't have to refund a single penny, just by letting my buyers know I hadn't forgotten them once I had their money and they had nothing.  I ship next day or same-day when possible, and also offer free returns, which every seller should, for too many reasons to go into here, but suffice it to say what you probably already know; someone determined to return something on ebay WILL do so, whether you think they should or not.  So, in light of the VIP treatment I give, nothing makes my blood boil like scammers. 

 I was neutral about your suspicion when you first posted, but given the amount of time that has passed without him replying again, and MORE IMPORTANTLY the fact that he tried to get his refund through private messaging rather than opening a real claim, it sure is looking like a scam.  And all these "JUST GIVE HIS MONEY BACK!" people sure are looking like fools.   Like someone said, if this guy does open an official claim, this is over, but until then I say good on you for not caving, and probably good that you have his post office tuned in.  

[gurlcat]

Actually there IS one thing worse than scammers; the sellers who enable them.  It just encourages them to keep doing it, and also spread their scam techniques to their BLEEPY friends.  I wonder if these martyr folks have any idea how many youtube videos, redddit articles, etc. there are, with turds just crowing their gleeful how-to's about how easy it is to get stuff for free on ebay, from single moms and retirees just trying to scrape by.  

[firejake2003]

Did you insure the package?  If so you can make a claim to the post office.  Did the buyer file a claim?  If so they have an obligation just as you do to to communicate and respond regarding that claim and with the evidence you have provided it's possible ebay would work with you if you have a clean track record over the years.  Just keep all communication within ebay to stay protected.  They will not work with you if you try to communicate offline with the customer.

Even still, if the package is of relatively low value, you have to decide if the hours you are putting into this are worth it.  Sometimes we all have losses and if that ends up being the case with your situation, moving on and making money with your other clients will make up tenfold for that loss.  Best of luck!

[yuzuha]

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@mweretro wrote:

Actually there is a Major red flag there.   When an item is received in damaged condition they "stamp" the package and initial it with a red stamp.    It is usually dated and initialed by the postal employee whom found it in damaged condition, not to mention a note is bagged with the item if it is a small package or envelope.

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Nope, not always. I've received damaged packages that had no such stamp on them.

[chaos-games.llc]

Doesn't matter. This is inexcusable to even attempt to pull some garbage scam. No matter how little effort or pursuit of it was intended. Sellers who allow even these minor offenses slide just enable others to feel entitled or that it's harmless to others. I don't condone stealing, defrauding, or other attempts to create loss and stress to others. But, you're a POS to do it to other individuals that aren't much different than yourself. I wouldn't expect anything less from someone hammering me if I was a buyer and pulled this type of **bleep**. So, my environment growing up must have taught me something about morals and ethics. I grew up poor with a factory worker Dad and Mom who didn't even complete HS that worked low wage retail jobs. Helped her obtain her GED when I was in Middle School. I only got a bedroom to myself when I was about 16-17 from my only sister because they couldn't afford a bigger home until I was that age. I'm sick of these types of people and they get zero excuses. BTW. Buyer has ignored multiple messages and even a text. So, my opinion is they are trash like the other low-lifes who do or attempt to steal. I doubt it's their first time doing this.

[chaos-games.llc]

I appreciate the reasoning but it enables the problem to continue and not reduce. The principle of the matter with making a platform used by millions with better morals and ethics by the users. Since, eBay only cares for their bottomline of fees then it's up to the users for policing themselves. I believe the sellers and buyers are not entitled to any more leverage of one to the other nor do they get passes on this type of abuse. All because, they've convinced themselves how harmless it is if they only "attempt" and don't pursue defrauding more than that. They've convinced themselves that they are not a thief and it's further from the truth.

[chaos-games.llc]

The norm from multiple PO that I've spoken with is that protocol is typically the same. Receive/sorting a damaged or opened package and they bag/secure, label/identify, and document with notice to the receiver. Maybe, not "always" which is 100%. But, the majority of the time which is no less than 50%. Statistically, then you could extrapolate a better proportion with an increasing sample size.

[chaos-games.llc]

Yep. There are a lot of these types. I've seen and perused some of the subs on Reddit which talk about these things. Using this tape to infer that it was damaged/opened is one of them. Arranging to try and receive a package without the last delivery confirmation scan is another to claim it was never received.

[nuclearomen]

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@chaos-games.llc wrote:

Sold an item and the buyer sent me message a few hours after delivery that it was missing. The photo they attached in the message shows two USPS damage labels that were suspiciously placed on the package with an opening clearly off placed from the labels. I would suspect that if this were internal theft that it's quite odd an employee would take a chance on random package opening to thieve in this way. As of now, I'm filing a claim for USPS mail fraud and communicating with the buyer to determine if they are persistent on wanting to handle this claim of theft. Looking for advice and others stories concerning receiving anything similar in claims from buyers. How did it turn out?

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@chaos-games.llc I would throw a flag in here since USPS to my knowledge never uses stickers for damaged items...every time I have ever received a package flagged as damaged it has always been marked via a red ink stamp with bold letters. I would take the envelope to your local USPS to confirm but I have never NEVER seen them a sticker such as yours stating "Received Damaged Condition Initials _____ " that has always, as said, been a red ink stamp that is stamped various places on the package (usually where the damage is) and initialed usually 

[chaos-games.llc]

Did some research on the buyer using variations of their name, address, phone number, feedback history, and if there were other user names set up. So far, the buyer's phone is a mobile that's multiple states away. The address was an apt. which was just recently leased in the past 6 months. They have a history of only buying collectibles with MTG cards being the majority. The buying was in spurts based upon feedback. A lot of buys in a 30 day period and then nothing for a few weeks. This cycle seemed consistent over 2 years that I went back. However, feedback is really clean from no negatives given in the past 1-2 years. I was tempted to contact sellers that received feedback to only ask if they've ever received these types of messages from any buyers. I wasn't going to divulge personal info but wanted a data set to see how often this occurs. For my personal experience, then I've only had two who used this "damaged/opened" claim and both had the USPS label. But, that was it. The previous person just dropped off, the same as this buyer, after I was very persistent with speaking to them and following up as pursuing this with being theft by USPS and involving a local police report. I have had others who claimed they never received it, even though it was shown as delivered. However, out of the volume I've done in years then that may have been 2 or 3. I'm not saying this is the majority of my transactions and I only do personal selling on the site.

Should anyone have to go through all of this as a seller? Not even excusable by buyers who pull this garbage. They are trash.

[teth_1615]

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@chaos-games.llc wrote:

Did some research on the buyer 

However, feedback is really clean from no negatives given in the past 1-2 years.

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[chaos-games.llc]

Did you intentionally try to pick out two small aspects of what I mentioned? It should be noted that this is a scam used by some buyers that I've read about on social media sites whereby they claim an opened/missing/damaged package by fraudulently using these USPS labels. So, whether the buyer did this is still not exactly known but it sure shows a suspect buyer who doesn't want to pursue a claim of theft by USPS.

"Did some research on the buyer using variations of their name, address, phone number, feedback history, and if there were other user names set up. So far, the buyer's phone is a mobile that's multiple states away. The address was an apt. which was just recently leased in the past 6 months. They have a history of only buying collectibles with MTG cards being the majority. The buying was in spurts based upon feedback. A lot of buys in a 30 day period and then nothing for a few weeks. This cycle seemed consistent over 2 years that I went back. However, feedback is really clean from no negatives given in the past 1-2 years. I was tempted to contact sellers that received feedback to only ask if they've ever received these types of messages from any buyers. I wasn't going to divulge personal info but wanted a data set to see how often this occurs. For my personal experience, then I've only had two who used this "damaged/opened" claim and both had the USPS label. But, that was it. The previous person just dropped off, the same as this buyer, after I was very persistent with speaking to them and following up as pursuing this with being theft by USPS and involving a local police report. I have had others who claimed they never received it, even though it was shown as delivered. However, out of the volume I've done in years then that may have been 2 or 3. I'm not saying this is the majority of my transactions and I only do personal selling on the site."