Buyer Circumvented Block - was still allowed to leave negative feedback?

[hkgcwobu]

Hi All,

A buyer who circumvented a block I had on their main account used a secondary account to purchase the cheapest item on my store very clearly with the intent to leave negative feedback. I talked with an ebay representative on the phone and they confirmed it was the same user (same address and last name on their account), and told me it would be okay to cancel the sale and that the buyer would not be able to leave a negative review.

However, the "buyer" ended up leaving a negative review and when I requested feedback removal, I was denied even though the buyer very clearly broke Ebay ToS by circumventing the block on their main account. In fact, even after providing more details to ebay I lost my appeal to have this feedback removed again, with them claiming the buyers experience is legitimate...

It is very wrong to me that ebay will just let any person looking for revenge to leave negative feedback even if they go out of their way to break ToS to do so. I am also bothered that they won't even consider the fact that a customer service rep advised me that it's okay to simply cancel the order, and that there is this previous solved community post stating it's okay to cancel an order with "issue with buyer's address" when you're certain they are circumventing a block.

Has anyone ever had any luck getting negative feedback in this situation removed? I am really shocked that ebay is siding with the "buyer" in my situation... would appreciate any advice if possible and especially if an ebay employee could explain my situation is different from the one linked above : /

[vintagecraze50]

I read that post form itty and he seemed to imply that some unspoken rule as of recent is that any cancelled sale has no protection from bad feedback anymore, at least automatically through the system. Maybe a resolution after this seller continues to discuss removal with them.

[bennotbill]

If you do something wrong on eBay you can't just keep adding to it. That was the sort of answer I expected the rep to give but it seems the real answer is anything goes.

It's like some ads get taken down while others don't. It's a hodge podge of rules.

What we are missing here is the rule that explains when rules are applied or not.😀

[mam98031]

---

@vintagecraze50 wrote:

I went assuming that from what that post I responded to said is that for some reason maybe ebay has some new rule  not explicitly stated of their own about not removing feedback if it was a cancelled sale regardless of the rules the buyer broke. I have no idea why they staunchly refused to remove this feedback

---

No there isn't unless it is unannounced, policy pages are not updated and the change is unpublished.

[mam98031]

---

@vintagecraze50 wrote:

I read that post form itty and he seemed to imply that some unspoken rule as of recent is that any cancelled sale has no protection from bad feedback anymore, at least automatically through the system. Maybe a resolution after this seller continues to discuss removal with them.

---

No, at least not according to Kyle.  Have you read his post?

[palominoproductions]

You are lucky that is all that happened.  I had a buyer return an item they had clearly worn and made worthless and ebay required that I reimburse them in full and refused to process my appeal despite photographs and emails from the buyer showing their intent to defraud.  Ebay took money out of my bank account four times and I had to accept nearly $60 in losses just to keep selling on Ebay.  Getting shafted by Ebay is an expected expense.  Be very careful about the shipping address of the buyer and pay close attention to the first info that flashes across your screen.  Although my buyer requirements stipulate I only ship or sell in the USA, Ebay let a buyer in Spain purchase one of my items. The screen said she was in Spain then that info disappeared.  It was only after hours on the phone that an ebay rep confirmed the buyer was actually in Spain that I was able to cancel the order but it was a huge time waster and took my product off line for two weeks!!  I call Ebay and confirm address is in USA and they are not drop shippers or freight forwarders with each sale.  Its a huge time waster but better than losing the product and having to pay some buyer in Russia or Tiawan for an item they never return plus pay the outrageous return shipping that ebay gets a fee for charging  you!  If you find a better selling platform please let me know.  Good luck!

[robbie31415]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

Can you tell me how many times we've told people that the reps have just told them what they wanted to hear.

No stats available that I'm aware of.

That doesn't equate to having enough information to actually link the accounts during a real review.

I'm not sure what this means.  Are you saying if an Ebay CSR tells you the accounts are linked together that isn't enough to believe they are linked together?

Just because someone is able to pull something off doesn't mean it's allowed. How many people have been able to pull off policy violations? Does that mean those violations are allowed? That's an extremely poor statement. People pull off speeding all the time, does that mean speeding isn't illegal?

OK, but that doesn't change anything I've said on the subject.

---

"No stats available that I'm aware of."

The point wasn't about actual statistical analysis but rather the bad information provided by phone/chat CSR reps that pretty much every regular on the forums already knows.

I'd be shocked if other regulars here didn't acknowledge that these CSR reps provide bad/improper information to get people off the call/chat regularly. But you can act like you don't already know this all you want, I already know you know.

"I'm not sure what this means. Are you saying if an Ebay CSR tells you the accounts are linked together that isn't enough to believe they are linked together?"

CSR reps aren't responsible for making these determinations. They file reports for review to an internal division that will make that determination. The CSR rep could have said something 'it appears they are the same person', and the OP could be misrepresenting what was actually said. Or from my previous point the CSR rep told them what they wanted to hear to get them off the call.

So yes, simply because a CSR rep says something isn't enough to believe it's true. CSR reps make many mistakes thats why they don't make the determination but report it to a division that performs the actual review.

"OK, but that doesn't change anything I've said on the subject."

Actually it does. Just because you say it doesn't change anything on the subject doesn't mean it doesn't ACTUALLY change anything on the subject. It was a perfect example that shows how incorrect your thought process is on the matter. But I can't force you to accept the information. This is like me trying to tell you that you can't always respond to a payment dispute and you want to write up many posts of incorrect information until you come to the realization you are wrong.

[palominoproductions]

What protection does a seller receives if a buyer that does not meet the sellers Ebay buyer requirements buys and pays for an item anyway that requires shipping to a country the seller does not ship to or to a freight forwarder or drop shipper the seller has clearly excluded from buying from them??

[palominoproductions]

Why shouldn't sellers warn other sellers of a buyers bad behavior?  Why can't sellers leave negative feedback?

[mam98031]

It happens way too often that an Ebay CSR gives bad information to some member on some subject.  But there are some good ones too.  It is a mixed bag.  But that makes things very difficult for the person seeking advice on how to handle something.  And leads to mistakes made like this OP made.

Only made worse by when Ebay doesn't step up, take responsibility for the bad advice and make it right by the seller instead of leaving that seller with the aftermath of the bad advice.

IDK about the CSR being "responsible" to make a determination that two accounts are linked.  According to the OP the CSR DID make the comment that they were linked.  Which IMHO means they should have forwarded this OP on to a Feedback Specialist to resolve the issue on the feedback.  But just my opinion.

Sorry I disappointed you yet again.  I think it will be on ongoing issue for you.  You are more than welcome to just ignore my posts.

[robbie31415]

I've had a few feedbacks removed due to cancelled orders.

People misuse cancellations far to often, and I suspect the OP abused cancellations. It could have been a misunderstanding, however no one here including themselves have no real idea if it was actually the same buyer.

If the order itself has a Ship to address that isn't covered by the listing then the seller should be protected from negative feedback. eBay can clearly see the terms of the listing and that the buyer is violating policy by asking for something that isn't in the listing.

You can't blacklist FF's. That's against policy, as MANY buyers use FF's. Cancelling the order simply because you had a bad experience at that address is cancellation abuse. Say it was the UPS Store, many people have their packages delivered there to prevent porch pirates. The seller had a bad experience with a customer at the UPS store and decided to blacklist that address. Now I make my order and want to held at the UPS store. I wake up to see 'cancelled order' and a bunch of false allegations levied against me.

Now you are telling me I should have no rights to leave negative feedback? That this cancellation was appropriate even though I did nothing wrong?

Also, you can't ban international customers when they ask you to ship internationally. As long as the buyer is asking you to ship to the markets you advertise, cancelling the sale is inappropriate.

THIS is why eBay needs to tighten up on removing negative feedback for cancels. They are abused so often, and I didn't even start with the dishonest sellers that cancel OOS as buyer request.

Seller sends message to buyer. "I'm sorry I can't ship your item because I don't have it. Would you like me to cancel it so you can get your money back?"

Buyer wants their money back so they respond "Yes please".

Seller cancels "Buyer requested".

🙃

[mam98031]

---

@palominoproductions wrote:

What protection does a seller receives if a buyer that does not meet the sellers Ebay buyer requirements buys and pays for an item anyway that requires shipping to a country the seller does not ship to or to a freight forwarder or drop shipper the seller has clearly excluded from buying from them??

---

@palominoproductions 

This is a completely different subject than we are discussing on this thread.  But simply, if you have your buyer requirements set up the way you like them, a buyer must meet those requirements or they can't purchase from you.

Ebay does not force a seller to ship to another country.  It is a misunderstanding about how the requirements actually read and are applied.  

On your Buyer Requirements, you can block "Block buyers whose primary shipping address is in a location I don't ship to.".  There are lots of international members that are in the US for extended periods of time for a variety of reasons.  They could have a job here, going to school, extended vaca or any number of reasons.  If the buyer has a primary ship to address in the US, you can not block them.

A Freight Forwarder is NOT a drop shipper, that is a completely different thing.

If the Freight Forwarder has a US address and it is the one on the Buyers Primary ship to address, then you can't block this buyer from purchasing from you because they have a US ship to address.  Or they may use a ship to address that is a friend or family member.  It isn't typically a problem unless the seller makes it one.  

The seller is responsible for what they sell to the address in which it is shipped to stated on the purchase of the item.  If that item moves on to a different country and the buyer contacts you that they need to return the item, you do NOT have to pay for return shipping from the country in which they are in.  If the buyer wants to return it, it will ship back to you at their expense.  You are responsible only to the US address in which you shipped the item.

Don't give up good sales because you don't understand the process.  Learn the process without assumptions and it will only benefit you.  

Exclusions and special coverage when the buyer doesn't receive an item

Items collected by a third party on behalf of the buyer	Not covered
The buyer arranged their own shipping method, such as a courier pickup	Not covered
The buyer provided an invalid or incorrect address at checkout	Not covered
The item was sent to another address after original delivery	Covered: The item was forwarded as part of an eBay program such as: Global Shipping Program eBay International Shipping eBay international standard delivery eBay Authenticity Guarantee Not covered: The buyer used third-party freight forwarding or mail redirection

Exclusions and special coverage when the item doesn't match the listing

The item was collected by a third party on behalf of the buyer	Not covered
Withdrawal of the items in your Collection when stored in the eBay vault	Not covered   Withdrawals may be covered separately by the eBay vault.
The buyer arranged their own shipping method, such as a courier pickup	Not covered
The item was sent to another address after original delivery	Covered: The item was forwarded as part of an eBay program such as: Global Shipping Program eBay International Shipping eBay international standard delivery eBay Authenticity Guarantee Not covered: The buyer used third-party freight forwarding or mail redirection

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

The above policy is one that is extremely essential for all sellers to know and understand completely from top to bottom.

[mam98031]

---

@palominoproductions wrote:

Why shouldn't sellers warn other sellers of a buyers bad behavior?  Why can't sellers leave negative feedback?

---

The simple answer is that there are no personal transaction on Ebay.  Every transaction is a business transaction and should be treated as such.  Publicly shaming a customer is simply BAD business.  It will drive away perfectly good buyers as they are going to be concerned if their seller may have had a bad day and take it out on the FB they leave for them.

Or the seller may have no reason to leave a negative FB, but the buyer leaves one for them.  So in retaliation the seller leaves one for the buyer.  There are all kinds of reason why this is simply a very bad idea.  Which is why it is rare to find a site that allows such action.

[ajw2203]

The ebay reps on chat don't seem knowledgeable anymore I think they are just there to make you go away happy with their response.  Twice this month chat reps told me something then it wasn't true.

Somebody once said we aren't on ebay for positive comments we are here to make money. You posted this 6 days ago, hopefully you let it go and moved on

[mam98031]

---

@ajw2203 wrote:

The ebay reps on chat don't seem knowledgeable anymore I think they are just there to make you go away happy with their response.  Twice this month chat reps told me something then it wasn't true.

Somebody once said we aren't on ebay for positive comments we are here to make money. You posted this 6 days ago, hopefully you let it go and moved on

---

On each Ebay page there is a link to contact Customer Service at the top of the page and again at the bottom of the page.

I would suggest that you contact Ebay for Business on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter for the better trained CSRs.

Here are your options for contacting Ebay Customer Service. Please be aware that for social media CS, you send them a Private Message and briefly explain what your problem or issue is. Feel free to leave your Name, address, phone number and/or your email address in this message. It is private and secure and it may help to speed up the response for you.

https://twitter.com/askebay

https://www.facebook.com/eBay/

https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/

Your options will be on the left. If you use the link below you can only get to the Automated Assistant or Chat box type AGENT in the box and hit enter. You will then get more options. Not all options are available 24/7. It will depend on staffing available. So sometimes you can request a call back and sometimes you can't. Sometimes you have the Chat option available and other times it won't me. If it is important to you to use one of those options, just try back later.

If you use a cell phone or other mobile device, you may need to turn off your Spam filter so that Ebay can call you.

If you are a seller outside of the US or Canada, you will need to use the Chat Option.

https://www.ebay.com/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid

https://www.ebay.com/help/home

[gurlcat]

This is one reason I no longer bother talking to phone reps and do the live chat instead, because then I have the whole conversation in writing, in case I need it to prove what I was told before.  And I'm not even saying that will work to reverse a subsequent action, but it has a much better chance than just saying "Well she told me ........ "  

Oh by the way, if you do a live chat you can request that a transcript be sent to you, but when I did that I did NOT receive it, so don't trust that, just copy the conversation directly from your screen before you close it, and then paste it to a new document in your files.