eBay

bigdeals.etc · ‎05-20-2019

This buyer bought 25 items from me at once, which is very unusual. Average multiple item orders I get is 2-5 items.

Anyway, so this buyer files SNADs for 7 different items... so I think I just got 7 SNADs from this one buyer, which is crazy high. In the comments he wrote a super long paragraph about how each item was "damaged" and copy/pasted it into each SNAD he filed, as well as messaged it to me in ebay, as well as attached a screenshot of his long message to me in ebay and email.

I didn't read the entire paragraph as it is very repetitive. But basically many of the flaws they mention aren't even flaws... I've never had buyers complain about these items like this and I've sold thousands. I honestly believe the buyer can be OCD or something.

He is asking for replacements or a refund for the 7 items. He doesn't plan on returning the items. Of course normally I would refund upon receiving the item. And if they don't return it, simply close it out in my favor eventually. But the problem here is other 18 items they have purchased and haven't filed any returns or left feedback for. If I eventually close these 7 out in my favor, I am risking the buyer retaliate by filing 18 more SNADs or possibly receiving 18 negatives.

How would you handle this?

turquoisetulips · ‎05-20-2019

@bigdeals.etc wrote:
This buyer bought 25 items from me at once, which is very unusual. Average multiple item orders I get is 2-5 items.

Anyway, so this buyer files SNADs for 7 different items... so I think I just got 7 SNADs from this one buyer, which is crazy high. In the comments he wrote a super long paragraph about how each item was "damaged" and copy/pasted it into each SNAD he filed, as well as messaged it to me in ebay, as well as attached a screenshot of his long message to me in ebay and email.

I didn't read the entire paragraph as it is very repetitive. But basically many of the flaws they mention aren't even flaws... I've never had buyers complain about these items like this and I've sold thousands. I honestly believe the buyer can be OCD or something.

He is asking for replacements or a refund for the 7 items. He doesn't plan on returning the items. Of course normally I would refund upon receiving the item. And if they don't return it, simply close it out in my favor eventually. But the problem here is other 18 items they have purchased and haven't filed any returns or left feedback for. If I eventually close these 7 out in my favor, I am risking the buyer retaliate by filing 18 more SNADs or possibly receiving 18 negatives.

How would you handle this?

I'd probably want to jump in a hole and pull the hole in after me .. lol .. That's a tricky situation and it's just fortunate that I haven't dealt with it yet . Hopefully someone will come along who has a clue because I don't . However I believe you're probably right about the buyer possibly having an OCD . The repetitive comments over and over are a good indication . Tulips

dtexley3 · ‎05-20-2019

Unfortunately you just added 7 returns to your shipping metrics for ONE order. I feel your pain.

Member of the Grumpy Old Man crew

dqdnvwe0 · ‎05-20-2019

All I can tell you is I have limits instated on how much a buyer can purchase from me at one time, and it is sad I have to do this but it's to prevent situations such as yours from developing. Again sadly because we shouldn't have to do that but big orders all from one individual or entity are such an opening for trouble, hard to say exactly too but it could be a competitor or just a loonie tunes... You never know but in the site preferences (or perhaps business policies) there exists a way to limit sales to individual accounts per day / week and so on.

That having been said...

I would reply to this buyer's message with a very simple and static:

Dear Buyer,

Please return for refund.

Thank you.

Now one other thing I can tell you, buyers like these may like to get into a back-and-forth with you by replying to the "return for refund" with more alfalfa so do NOT fall for it! The way to do that is to restrict your replies to one per day, and in this case if the buyer fires back with tons more palaver simply reply again one time the very next day with:

Dear Buyer,

Please return for refund.

Thank you.

That is how I would handle it.

dhbookds · ‎05-21-2019

I don't understand what choice you think you may have? return for refund is the only one I can see?

a_c_green · ‎05-21-2019

@bigdeals.etc wrote:
But the problem here is other 18 items they have purchased and haven't filed any returns or left feedback for. If I eventually close these 7 out in my favor, I am risking the buyer retaliate by filing 18 more SNADs or possibly receiving 18 negatives.

How would you handle this?

I think the 7 you've got already is a warning shot across your bow, to hint that more will come if you don't deal with the first 7. Either that or he just got tired of typing. He might have come to realize that if he piled on even further, you would simply tell him to return the whole lot in the first place.

I would fire back the standard bland response of "I'm sorry you are not satisfied with your purchase. You may return it for a full refund." That's all. He's going to do whatever he's going to do anyway, so the message to him should be No, acting like a ninny is not going to earn you free merchandise. Don't engage him further unless you want additional weird essays clogging your In box. (Please go to his Feedback page, select the Feedback Left for Others tab, and let us know what his record looks like there.)

bigdeals.etc · ‎05-24-2019

So I think this guy is sincerely suffering from some sort of OCD. I was able to talk the guy into just returning the items for refunds. He did, but he still wanted replacements (something that I didn't agree to). He actually bought individual USPS padded mailers for each item to send back to me. In each pack was the item (nothing wrong of course) along with a detailed stapled sheets with a few pages documenting in detail the entire ordeal... purchases, item IDs, emails, messages, photos, addresses, etc etc etc. This was in each package. Quite a big waste of paper if you ask me. Anway, I issued the full refunds and hopefully that will be the end of it.

One last thing to @Anonymous or any other blue. For some reason the numerous returns are still being shown in my Manage Returns page despite me already issuing the full refunds. The status of each return says "closed", and when I go into the detail of the return, it says I did my part and refunded in full and that I can ask ebay to step in or close the return. But there are no such options in the page. Aren't they supposed to close automatically once I issue the refund? FYI, I just issued another refund (for another buyer in the Manage Returns Page) and that return disappeared from that page immediately after I refunded... as it should. Can you help me take a look at why these other numerous returns are remaining in my returns page? It's causing quite the clutter. Thanks.

a_c_green · ‎05-24-2019

@bigdeals.etc wrote:
He actually bought individual USPS padded mailers for each item to send back to me. In each pack was the item (nothing wrong of course) along with a detailed stapled sheets with a few pages documenting in detail the entire ordeal... purchases, item IDs, emails, messages, photos, addresses, etc etc etc. This was in each package.

Wow. Impressive.

If he's doing every item individually, assembly-line fashion, you're probably not the only seller on the receiving end of this. He may be processing everything he buys in this fashion (i.e. buy a ton from each seller and then nitpick each and every flaw he finds), so that each individual item going back is its own little Grievance Package™, able to stand on its own if that happens to be the only package going to that particular seller (that day, at least).

I would say that Yes, there's something a little off about his fierce dedication to that whole process, which should be admired from a safe distance.

bigdeals.etc · ‎05-26-2019

Okay so here's some odd developments. The buyer shot me back a message after I refunded them. Asking me why haven't I sent the replacements and rather sent refunds. They tried to buy again and see that I have blocked them. They are wondering what is going on. I don't know if he understood that he filed for a refund in addition to me saying that the replacements will be exactly like the originals that he received and didn't like.

About an hour after that message, he opens up another account with a different nearby shipping/billing address, but the name registered is the same and goes off and re-buys those same exact items. Am I going to get defects for cancelling this sale? Or am I forced to go thru the ship, accept return, pay shipping back and forth, and let him re-buy again for all eternity? Remember from what I said earlier, this guy is super meticulous and tenacious. Any tips on what to do or how to respond to make him understand?

candiesduds · ‎05-26-2019

I would cancel the transaction using problem with buyer's address and contact Ebay to show he is violating policy by creating a new account to purchase from to circumvent your block. Don't let any dumb dumb CSR tell you that is acceptable as they 'obviously want the item' it is in their policy and this buyer is violating it. Then I would send them a message politely stating that they opened a RETURN, not a replacement and since they massively dinged your seller metrics opening 7 different returns for the wrong return reason as the item was not defective or damaged as rather buyer remorse you felt no other choice but to block him from purchasing again in the future. By him creating a new account to circumvent your block he is now violating Ebay policy and if he attempts to continue this behavior you'll have no other recourse but to report him to Ebay. Hope for the best lol. Sadly Ebay caters to buyers even when they violate their own policies so I really would except them to do nothing to the buyer but hopefully allow you to cancel the transaction.

equid0x · ‎05-26-2019

@bigdeals.etc wrote:
Okay so here's some odd developments. The buyer shot me back a message after I refunded them. Asking me why haven't I sent the replacements and rather sent refunds. They tried to buy again and see that I have blocked them. They are wondering what is going on. I don't know if he understood that he filed for a refund in addition to me saying that the replacements will be exactly like the originals that he received and didn't like.

About an hour after that message, he opens up another account with a different nearby shipping/billing address, but the name registered is the same and goes off and re-buys those same exact items. Am I going to get defects for cancelling this sale? Or am I forced to go thru the ship, accept return, pay shipping back and forth, and let him re-buy again for all eternity? Remember from what I said earlier, this guy is super meticulous and tenacious. Any tips on what to do or how to respond to make him understand?

IMHO you have a competitor trying to knock you out. If the buyer is now on your BBL and they've re-purchased from you with a new account, then I would contact eBay by phone and find out what they think the next steps should be.

Although it seems to be rarely enforced, the last I knew it is against eBay policy to create a new account to bypass the block list.

I think if you just put in 7 cancellations without getting eBay in the loop first you are asking for trouble.

Me, I absolutely would not sell or send anything to this buyer again. Even for the poorest of sellers, unless they are sending ppl rocks in a box, the likelihood of receiving 7 INAD items in a single transaction are basically nil.

Personally, I wouldn't even converse with this buyer. I would get eBay's trust & security involved and let them handle it. This guy is playing a game with you.

Anonymous · ‎05-27-2019

@bigdeals.etc wrote:

Okay so here's some odd developments. The buyer shot me back a message after I refunded them. Asking me why haven't I sent the replacements and rather sent refunds. They tried to buy again and see that I have blocked them. They are wondering what is going on. I don't know if he understood that he filed for a refund in addition to me saying that the replacements will be exactly like the originals that he received and didn't like.

About an hour after that message, he opens up another account with a different nearby shipping/billing address, but the name registered is the same and goes off and re-buys those same exact items. Am I going to get defects for cancelling this sale? Or am I forced to go thru the ship, accept return, pay shipping back and forth, and let him re-buy again for all eternity? Remember from what I said earlier, this guy is super meticulous and tenacious. Any tips on what to do or how to respond to make him understand?

Hi @bigdeals.etc, as a part of our 2019 Spring Seller Update, we announced protections for exactly this situation. Previously, eBay would have to determine a definitive link between two accounts to offer protections. Now we offer the same protection for sellers who have reason to believe two accounts are linked, such as what you describe. You can report the buyer, cancel the orders, and add the new account to your blocked list if you would like. A specific reason will be added later for these kinds of cancellations but for now you can use the "Problem with buyer's address" option, no problem. You will be protected from any defects or feedback issues that may arise.

Anonymous · ‎05-27-2019

@bigdeals.etc wrote:

So I think this guy is sincerely suffering from some sort of OCD. I was able to talk the guy into just returning the items for refunds. He did, but he still wanted replacements (something that I didn't agree to). He actually bought individual USPS padded mailers for each item to send back to me. In each pack was the item (nothing wrong of course) along with a detailed stapled sheets with a few pages documenting in detail the entire ordeal... purchases, item IDs, emails, messages, photos, addresses, etc etc etc. This was in each package. Quite a big waste of paper if you ask me. Anway, I issued the full refunds and hopefully that will be the end of it.

One last thing to @Anonymous or any other blue. For some reason the numerous returns are still being shown in my Manage Returns page despite me already issuing the full refunds. The status of each return says "closed", and when I go into the detail of the return, it says I did my part and refunded in full and that I can ask ebay to step in or close the return. But there are no such options in the page. Aren't they supposed to close automatically once I issue the refund? FYI, I just issued another refund (for another buyer in the Manage Returns Page) and that return disappeared from that page immediately after I refunded... as it should. Can you help me take a look at why these other numerous returns are remaining in my returns page? It's causing quite the clutter. Thanks.

Hi @bigdeals.etc, this is likely due to the fact that the transactions are not 100% refunded - the buyer is able to close their returns based on the resolution they have received, or ask eBay to step in if they have an issue with the refund. If you have refunded in accordance with your return policy, an agreement made with the buyer, or provided a less than full refund in alignment with eBay guidance (any that is applicable to the situation), then you will be protected if eBay is asked to step in. Until the buyer either closes the returns or we are asked to step in, the returns will remain visible. They will close/expire on their own after some time has passed, and you can review the specific date in the return details.

bigdeals.etc · ‎05-27-2019

@Anonymous wrote:
@bigdeals.etc wrote:
So I think this guy is sincerely suffering from some sort of OCD. I was able to talk the guy into just returning the items for refunds. He did, but he still wanted replacements (something that I didn't agree to). He actually bought individual USPS padded mailers for each item to send back to me. In each pack was the item (nothing wrong of course) along with a detailed stapled sheets with a few pages documenting in detail the entire ordeal... purchases, item IDs, emails, messages, photos, addresses, etc etc etc. This was in each package. Quite a big waste of paper if you ask me. Anway, I issued the full refunds and hopefully that will be the end of it.

One last thing to @Anonymous or any other blue. For some reason the numerous returns are still being shown in my Manage Returns page despite me already issuing the full refunds. The status of each return says "closed", and when I go into the detail of the return, it says I did my part and refunded in full and that I can ask ebay to step in or close the return. But there are no such options in the page. Aren't they supposed to close automatically once I issue the refund? FYI, I just issued another refund (for another buyer in the Manage Returns Page) and that return disappeared from that page immediately after I refunded... as it should. Can you help me take a look at why these other numerous returns are remaining in my returns page? It's causing quite the clutter. Thanks.
Hi @bigdeals.etc, this is likely due to the fact that the transactions are not 100% refunded - the buyer is able to close their returns based on the resolution they have received, or ask eBay to step in if they have an issue with the refund. If you have refunded in accordance with your return policy, an agreement made with the buyer, or provided a less than full refund in alignment with eBay guidance (any that is applicable to the situation), then you will be protected if eBay is asked to step in. Until the buyer either closes the returns or we are asked to step in, the returns will remain visible. They will close/expire on their own after some time has passed, and you can review the specific date in the return details.

Thanks for the Seller Update reminder and steps to protect myself. As for this issue about the returns staying in my manage returns page, I spoke with CS over the weekend. I confirmed with her that the refunds are issued as full refunds... though the buyer may be confused about this because of the promos they bought (buy 4 get 1 free, and buy 3 get 1 free). The way ebay issues the discounts is equally across all items versus showing the 1 item as free. So the price paid for each item is actually 20-25% lower than advertised... and that is what was refunded.

The agent understood what I was talking about and noticed there was a Paypal maintenance or something during the time I refunded these. Maybe it caused a transition or funds transfer lag. This might just be a unique issue that was just bad timing. Here's another post from someone who has the same thing happening to them I believe https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Return-remains-open/m-p/29858996#M1427087

Thanks.

Anonymous · ‎05-27-2019

@candiesduds wrote:
I would cancel the transaction using problem with buyer's address and contact Ebay to show he is violating policy by creating a new account to purchase from to circumvent your block. Don't let any dumb dumb CSR tell you that is acceptable as they 'obviously want the item' it is in their policy and this buyer is violating it. Then I would send them a message politely stating that they opened a RETURN, not a replacement and since they massively dinged your seller metrics opening 7 different returns for the wrong return reason as the item was not defective or damaged as rather buyer remorse you felt no other choice but to block him from purchasing again in the future. By him creating a new account to circumvent your block he is now violating Ebay policy and if he attempts to continue this behavior you'll have no other recourse but to report him to Ebay. Hope for the best lol. Sadly Ebay caters to buyers even when they violate their own policies so I really would except them to do nothing to the buyer but hopefully allow you to cancel the transaction.

Hi @candiesduds, I just wanted to clarify that 7 returns from the same buyer within a short period of time (7 calendar days) would only count as 1 return for the purposes of a seller's Service Metrics [up to the time where the seller has 10 unique buyers, at which point all returns would be used in calculating a seller's return rate]. This is similar to how we calculate feedback [though differs slightly, as there is no "threshold" for feedback where we no long review based on unique buyers].

As we announced in our 2019 Spring Seller Update, we are stepping up the protections we have available to our sellers. In the past, we were not able to offer protection solely based on circumstantial evidence (ie. the same/similar shipping address, name, username, purchases, etc.) however we now support a cancellation and offer protection when a seller feels that a new buyer is a previously blocked buyer.

If this situation had arisen in the past, a Customer Service representative would have been able to review for potential abuse, but the protections offered at that time were different. They would not have been "dumb" to talk with a seller about how the buyer wants the item, as that was the nature of the situation at that time - we would have had to identify a connection and a pattern of abuse before being able to offer protections. We are happy to confirm that protections have been enhanced at this time with the flexibility sellers have been asking for.

I do ask that when referring to our Customer Service teammates that everyone remain respectful - often times these individuals are providing accurate information in situations where a member of our Community simply would like to see something handled differently. The Community Team is here to look into any necessary coaching opportunities, and we just want to remind everyone that in situations where an employee of eBay provides misinformation and times when the information provided is correct, but not what was hoped for, that discussions of eBay staff remain respectful.

[EDIT: Contents in brackets and in green were added for clarity after initially posted]

Anonymous · ‎05-27-2019

@bigdeals.etc wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@bigdeals.etc wrote:

So I think this guy is sincerely suffering from some sort of OCD. I was able to talk the guy into just returning the items for refunds. He did, but he still wanted replacements (something that I didn't agree to). He actually bought individual USPS padded mailers for each item to send back to me. In each pack was the item (nothing wrong of course) along with a detailed stapled sheets with a few pages documenting in detail the entire ordeal... purchases, item IDs, emails, messages, photos, addresses, etc etc etc. This was in each package. Quite a big waste of paper if you ask me. Anway, I issued the full refunds and hopefully that will be the end of it.

One last thing to @Anonymous or any other blue. For some reason the numerous returns are still being shown in my Manage Returns page despite me already issuing the full refunds. The status of each return says "closed", and when I go into the detail of the return, it says I did my part and refunded in full and that I can ask ebay to step in or close the return. But there are no such options in the page. Aren't they supposed to close automatically once I issue the refund? FYI, I just issued another refund (for another buyer in the Manage Returns Page) and that return disappeared from that page immediately after I refunded... as it should. Can you help me take a look at why these other numerous returns are remaining in my returns page? It's causing quite the clutter. Thanks.

Hi @bigdeals.etc, this is likely due to the fact that the transactions are not 100% refunded - the buyer is able to close their returns based on the resolution they have received, or ask eBay to step in if they have an issue with the refund. If you have refunded in accordance with your return policy, an agreement made with the buyer, or provided a less than full refund in alignment with eBay guidance (any that is applicable to the situation), then you will be protected if eBay is asked to step in. Until the buyer either closes the returns or we are asked to step in, the returns will remain visible. They will close/expire on their own after some time has passed, and you can review the specific date in the return details.

Thanks for the Seller Update reminder and steps to protect myself. As for this issue about the returns staying in my manage returns page, I spoke with CS over the weekend. I confirmed with her that the refunds are issued as full refunds... though the buyer may be confused about this because of the promos they bought (buy 4 get 1 free, and buy 3 get 1 free). The way ebay issues the discounts is equally across all items versus showing the 1 item as free. So the price paid for each item is actually 20-25% lower than advertised... and that is what was refunded.

The agent understood what I was talking about and noticed there was a Paypal maintenance or something during the time I refunded these. Maybe it caused a transition or funds transfer lag. This might just be a unique issue that was just bad timing. Here's another post from someone who has the same thing happening to them I believe https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Return-remains-open/m-p/29858996#M1427087

Thanks.

Hi @bigdeals.etc, while I can't be 100% certain of the returns we are discussing, I did take a look at what you have displayed and it does look like there are some returns that have been refunded, but not in full. You can review this yourself by looking at the order details. It looks like shipping was retained; if this is in alignment with your return policy/eBay policy, then you are good to go. The buyer would have the option of asking eBay to step in, and we would be able to protect you as as necessary, while also working with the buyer to explain the refund they received.