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Bleeding us dry

Does anyone here feel like they are being taken advantage of? Not in a small way, like when your best friend always wants to borrow your clothes, or when your boyfriend always insists on picking the movie--but in a serious and life changing way? I sit here now thinking of all the injustices that I continue to experience as a seller here--that seemingly endless feeling of dread because I never know what is going to happen next--am I going to be able to pay my bills in a month? Or will eBay come up with a new scheme to freeze me out? Who will the "chosen" ones be six months from now? I am pondering the callous way that my livelihood and financial well being have been treated by this company.

 

In truth, I am not a valued trading partner, I am a servant--always running from punishment, trying desperately to stay one step ahead--grateful for the few crumbs that are tossed my way. I have no rights--I can't even control the items that I post here, as eBay will change them--without warning or permission--any time they feel like it.  And instead of learning how to become a better seller, I have instead only gotten more ignorant--as my ability to glean understanding, research, and expand my knowledge has been essentially cut off--with many of the useful and educational features of the site made unavailable to me now.  What is left is only the constant stress and pressure that they try to instill in us--and they certainly do seem to love keeping us all worrying about the next defect, bad feedback, Final Value Fee Penalization, or the next false SNAD case.  Nothing instills more fear and dread in me than reading a sentence from eBay that begins with "In order to help sellers...."  And I can't help but feel that, in some way, there is an even darker underlying agenda--rather than just the simple scheme of keeping the stock holders happy.

 

Whether the indignities imposed upon sellers are by design, or stem from pure ignorance and apathy, it makes no difference--the imbalance of control, power, and financial reward here, the clear favoritism shown by eBay to some, but not all sellers, and the increased intrusions into our listings, stores, and bank accounts, has made selling here unbearable.  With sellers losing more autonomy daily, we have essentially become the assistant managers in our own stores. Not what any of us had in mind, I'm sure, when we set out to start our own businesses. 

 

I just want to know--how much more money is going to be pilfered from our pockets--when is it going to be enough? I am in utter disbelief at the audacity and gall eBay has--pressuring us to do these promoted listings. There is a reminder at the bottom of your listing page that you see every time you list an item, and under every single one of my listings in bright GREEN it says that the listing is "eligible for promoted listings." No kidding eBay--just in case I wasn't sure, thanks for writing it 950 times for me, in case I forgot.

 

And I am certainly reminded as I look through the items that are for sale. There they are--thousands upon thousands, if not millions of promoted listings all over the place.  And all I can think to myself is--just like when everyone gets a trophy, promoted listings cease to be interesting or a draw for buyers when everyone has them. Then we have the sellers who offer "free" returns with their Top Rated Plus beside their listings, and for the sellers who really bend over backwards--well, they get a quicker shipping time--isn't that nice? We all use the same services, but for some reason my estimated delivery time has gone from four days to SEVEN, and last night it was NINE (and that is shipping to MYSELF--who knows what a buyer in California is seeing) and right alongside of my listings are listings from other sellers quoting four days still.  Right before the holidays--isn't that just wonderful? I called eBay, and of course I was told that there was nothing wrong, that I'm still in the Guaranteed Delivery Program--and that my listings ARE showing up as guaranteed--they are just guaranteed for a week from now. Um--isn't that little green estimated delivery banner, that shows that I ship FAST, and meant to instill confidence in the buyer, what I gave up selling multiple items to one buyer for? I've lost a ton of sales because I can't send an invoice--in truth, forcing buyers to "Buy it now" has been detrimental to my bottom line on many occasions. Buyers just don't feel confident that I will either A. Refund them AFTER they purchase,  after they've paid all the shipping up front, or B. They think that I am full of it and trying to rip them off in some way because other sellers have been able to send them invoices, no problem.  I don't blame them a bit--I am exactly like that too--I want to know before I pay what the discount will be for combined shipping--and I want it in writing--I totally see their point. Why am I even in the Guaranteed Delivery Program? Why did I go through the trouble? So that now eBay can decide, once again, that it just isn't good enough for them? That program hasn't even been in effect for very long, and already they are tweaking it, or making it irrelevant?

 

Every day it is something new. Every. Single. Day. There is a new glitch or page change, or information that you were previously able to view that is no longer available.  How is it that they have SO much time that they can change things every day, yet last week THREE of my listings from 2017 mysteriously popped up in my store? I thought they were so worried about buyer satisfaction? Well, someone buying something that was sold in 2017 would surely cause just a tad bit of dissatisfaction. You think somebody could take the time to fix that? I mean, its only been happening for years now.

 

I cannot believe how much of our ability to use the site has disappeared. We can't look at our individual star ratings anymore, we can't see what other buyers or sellers have purchased, and we can't even access our OWN listings after a couple of months. I can't buy from some of my favorite sellers anymore because all of my purchases are GONE--and what is even worse is that I can't even LOOK for those sellers on eBay anymore because you CAN'T find a seller by their name anymore. What could possibly be the reasoning behind that? The only reason I can see for all those changes was to discourage repeat buyers for the small sellers. Every single one of those changes led to nothing but decreased sales for the smaller sellers. But why would they want to do that?

 

I was thinking the other day that they must be getting ready to charge, like Worthpoint, for knowledge about product prices. Didn't we used to get six months or a year's worth of prices in the Advanced search? And didn't there used to be a button that let us "Search the Description" in the advanced search? Like the button underneath the regular search? Why is it all of the sudden such a big deal to see what sold? Or to find a seller you like? Is there even a reason, or is eBay just closing down our access to information in an effort to make us concentrate on what they want us to be looking at? Like the 950 lines of bright green on my screen urging me give them more money?

 

All I know is that I am working WAY longer hours and making about half the money I made two years ago. Between losing my 20% FVF discount, the INSANE shipping increases at the Post Office (which now they just reach right in your account and TAKE what they THINK you owe them for short shipping).  I just got one the other day for almost five dollars, although when I have my packages weighed at the PO I am never short. What can I even do? eBay has made it **bleep** near impossible to access any information. They didn't even put what transaction I had made the "mistake" on--not even the DATE--and by the time I look everything up, go through the hassle of trying to navigate my way through Paypal AND eBay just to figure out what sale it was, well, by then I will have probably eaten up way more than 5 dollars worth of time. And who knows what kind of a hassle it will be to fight it--and I suppose that is what they are counting on. They tell us enough, and keep us just smart enough to do the basics, but let us be ignorant of how to help and protect ourselves.

 

Where is the respect? What right does the Post Office have to just stick their hands into our accounts and take money without asking us first? I'm not upset about the five bucks, but I AM upset about the fact that I wasn't asked or alerted first--on eBay or Paypal--I don't know if they send an email--I don't check mine because there are always 500 emails from eBay in there for any and every little listing change or sale I make--I can't wade through all that clogged mess. But why would eBay allow them to just take our money? Maybe it's because eBay is reaping its own rewards by either taking a percentage of what the Post Office re-coups, or maybe its from withholding some of what should be our "shipping discount?" I never believed it before, but honestly--do you really think a company that has gotten so ridiculously greedy, and so calloused towards its sellers WOULDN'T do such a thing?

 

And now we all have to worry about the new Tax changes. Another dent in our ever-shrinking incomes. I live in Pennsylvania--it is one of the poorest, most disadvantaged states I have ever lived in, and I've lived in a lot of them. So why would PA choose to tax an already suffering and poverty stricken populace? Oh, and also--we don't have Economy shipping here--no ground shipping whatsoever. I just can't understand what the reasoning is for that--we could certainly use it. Is the goal here to widen the divide between the rich and the poor? Essentially wiping out the middle class--making us a population of only masters and slaves? Royalty and serfs? 

 

We are essentially being nickled and dimed right into poverty.  There are so many different hands in my pot, that there isn't enough left to feed my own family anymore. Everyone I know lives paycheck to paycheck--and most are college grads. How has this happened? Well, let's take eBay CEO's and stock holders Vs. the "little" sellers on the ground, you know, the ones actually making things happen. How could the CEO of eBay possible understand what a difference 5% makes to us little people? How could he even have a concept of what an increase of 65 cents in shipping could do to our businesses? He's shoveling millions at the already uber-wealthy executives. Taking a few dollars here, skimming a couple there, taking away our discounts and incentives with no warning and no explanation--spread across all the sellers on the site, we're talking some serious cash.  He is looking at millions daily--while we are counting pennies.

 

Every time I turn around it seems I am assaulted with eBay demanding that I give either them or the buyers more of my hard earned profit--and it is not only irritating, but its also really scary. How can they not understand how slim the profit margins are for so many of their sellers? Do they not understand how difficult THEY have made it to sell on their platform? I waste more time just trying to figure out what the heck they are up to, than I spend listing. I haven't even fully recovered from losing my 20% discount, and already there they are with their hands out wanting more.  It's the reverse of Robin Hood--robbing the poor to pay the rich--and it's sickening, quite honestly. They JUST gave themselves, essentially a HUGE raise, with millions of sellers who lost their 20% discount on final value fees. Wouldn't you think that the millions (billions?) that they JUST scooped up might be enough to satisfy them for at least a little while? I'm stunned by the greed of this company--just floored. 

 

This is nothing new though--throughout history, and especially before the fall of most great civilizations there has been class distinction, and a huge disparity between the have's and have-not's.  But what is becoming increasingly bothersome to me is the brazen entitlement of the eBay leaders to simply take what they want--without notification or permission--and even more troubling is that they granted access to an outside entity, the Post Office, to also grab what they want from our tills. What's next? Are they going to allow the IRS or hospitals to collect our debts from our accounts? What in the world can we expect when eBay takes over as the payment provider--I'm seriously going to have nightmares tonight.

 

To me, it shows a serious lack of consideration for our privacy, and no regard for our boundaries. And much like how the peasants were treated--kept ignorant, living hand to mouth, always made aware of the fact that their livelihood and well being depended upon being granted favor by the noble class--we too have somehow slipped into the status of being invisible--disposable, for the most part. We are tolerated as long as we are useful, but we are not relevant or considered essential to the grand plan.  Which leads me to believe that there are going to be many more fingers tugging at our pockets in the future.

 

The sheer lack of respect and the refusal to take any of our objections, or even appeals for fairer conditions, or even just a level playing field--well, that says to me that the leaders of this company are above listening to the complaints of the common man. To their eventual and inevitable demise.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure eBay will manage to hang in there somehow--but there are going to be many who will fail and fall in the process--not just the small sellers, although there will be plenty of us reduced to road kill--but the real failures here are the leaders--those who were given guardianship over millions of people's livelihood's, and tasked with commanding the ship effectively, not steering it into the rocks. 

 

When this is all said and done, many of those men will be looked upon--not as innovators and trailblazers, who not only succeeded in their careers, but who were also conscientious shepherds of the many families financial futures that were entrusted to them--but instead as heedless blunderers--known only for their unbendible adherence to visionless, poorly thought out plots and schemes. They will be remembered simply for their reckless negligence--men who believed blindly in the conviction that the few deserve to profit, despite the suffering of the many. 

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Re: Bleeding us dry

Bleeding us dry

 

I was able to read the whole post.  It is sad that some people's comprehension  and attention level prevented them from viewing the whole thing. 

 

I was a seller here since 1998.  I ramped up  my move in 2009.  I an not always the brightest crayon in the box, but felt the changes made even back then were NOT for my benefit.  I began building my reputation elsewhere, and it worked out for me.  I still enjoy all the benefits of ecommerce in the vintage field, just not with the punitive atmosphere that is on ebay anymore.  It can be done despite the warnings that we no longer here  about "ebay is the only place that has buyer traffic".  That I can tell you is a lie.  

 

I see changes in the wind...namely ebay making money on their liar buyer phony snad buyer population now, and their lawsuit against AMZ for inducing sellers to leave ebay.  Sellers were always "a dime a dozen, dispensible on a whim" regardless that they were human beings.  Nobody had to induce me to leave.  It simply did not work anymore.  Now I am a buyer, and purchase things that can be sold for ten times the price elsewere.

 

 

 

 

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@klginc77 wrote:

What a terrible post! It is attitudes like yours that keep "WE THE PEOPLE" down. So what you are saying is the we plebs CANNOT change anything, just lay down and be subservient to the "powers that be." I'm NOT a big fan of Tom Jefferson, but i do like this quote! 

 

 "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical." 


It's Ebay's site and Ebay's sandbox - you follow their rules.

 

Question - and I've asked it before and gotten few answers - how many people have tried selling on these other venues? Since I sell on other venues and I constantly read the forums even on those I don't sell on - I can pretty much tell you that these venues are not there to coddle their sellers - they are there to make a profit for their investors. Because everyone and their brother is now selling somewhere  - they have more than enough sellers and they can be replaced fairly easily - what they need is buyers. People are fooling themselves to think they get to dictate what Ebay or any other venue does. Because of a decrease in sales and FVFs due to the 14 day hold on doing a promotion - they walked that back - but it wasn't because of the cries of the sellers here - but due to the loss of revenue which they have to explain to their investors.

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Re: Bleeding us dry

And that free market means that every seller has the right to move whereever they feel they can get sales. Free market does not mean that you can tell the Ebay how to run the venue. Maybe people should start their own - we've heard it here often enough - unfortunately no one comes back to say where their venue is - except for 1 guy. He did try to start an alternate site - but unfortunately closed up shop a couple of monnths later as there was no interest - not from the buyers and definitely not from the sellers who complain everyday on this board.

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Re: Bleeding us dry

unfortunately no one comes back to say where their venue is - except for 1 guy.

 

 

We are not allowed to say.  There are many off site groups that discuss these issues that are not allowed here. 

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Re: Bleeding us dry

Actually people talk about the other venues here now. We can't promote going elsewhere - but we've been able to share our experiences on them - which are similar to Ebay's. Also there is pm's. I was in the one private group with you - but I never remember discussing other venues - it was more of just another venting group about ebay.

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Re: Bleeding us dry

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures

I truly cannot give you the answer your looking for. Work a full time job for the man. Work part time and sell a little here a little there. Retire. There is no single answer but everyone has do do what they have to do. If the money you expect is not coming from Ebay you have to find a better way of getting it. Weather it be another site or options i gave. Ebay does not limit you but buyers do. To get buyers you need to follow the advice many give here. Lower your price, better descriptions, more pictures, change what you are selling to more demand items, stop selling items in saturated markets. Your potential is all up to what you do to make a difference. Ebay is not going to change for you but at the same time they are not stopping you.

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@coolections wrote:

@everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures

I truly cannot give you the answer your looking for. Work a full time job for the man. Work part time and sell a little here a little there. Retire. There is no single answer but everyone has do do what they have to do. If the money you expect is not coming from Ebay you have to find a better way of getting it. Weather it be another site or options i gave. Ebay does not limit you but buyers do. To get buyers you need to follow the advice many give here. Lower your price, better descriptions, more pictures, change what you are selling to more demand items, stop selling items in saturated markets. Your potential is all up to what you do to make a difference. Ebay is not going to change for you but at the same time they are not stopping you.





Did I ask a question I am unaware of???  I do not think I asked what I should do.

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@tunicaslot wrote:

And that free market means that every seller has the right to move whereever they feel they can get sales. Free market does not mean that you can tell the Ebay how to run the venue. Maybe people should start their own - we've heard it here often enough - unfortunately no one comes back to say where their venue is - except for 1 guy. He did try to start an alternate site - but unfortunately closed up shop a couple of monnths later as there was no interest - not from the buyers and definitely not from the sellers who complain everyday on this board.


I do not think redefining what a free market is will work...because that is what you just did...try to redefine it, that is. That is not an answer to the issue either btw.

And I also sell on multiple venues, most do these days

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Re: Bleeding us dry

And the guy that tried to start an alternate site was scamming sellers and taking advantage of those who just believe whatever because someone on the internet who they never met before said it or because they got so wrapped up in the drama they didn't know what was true or not. Lots of people lost money in that scheme too BTW. Not really the best example to use for anything.

And this is actually and has been a pretty good discussion for the most part....not just a bunch of complainers. Most of us know the score but we are also allowed to talk about it.

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Re: Bleeding us dry

I think this is what's frustrating for many of us. People come here complaining - we offer advice but they know better. They are so head strong that hey are right and everyone else is wrong that there are times I just say why do I bother. But then I have someone pm me for more advice - or receive a pm from someone I helped months ago just to let me know how they are doing - and then it all seems worthwhile.

 

Ebay is not a good fit for everyone and I know it's hard when you have so much time and energy invested in something to let it go - but it's not a failure if you can't succeed here and concentrating on the other sites you do sell on makes your business and your whole outlook better.

 

I've had the same complaints as many here - slow to no sales, revised, did all the extras to increase visibility ect - and still sales were down. Sometimes what you sell is the main problem - I've already said that I am moving out of just regular run of the mill clothing into a niche - and it's working. My overall sell thru rate is down - but because my items sell for more - I'm actually mking more money even tho I'm selling less items. 

 

People have to accept that it's not always the venue - but themselves as far as how much work they are doing to make sure their business succeeds or what you sell is not sustainable anymore.

 

I'm not going to argue with you as some come here just to rile others and I'm not going to be part of that. At times I wish we had the ignore button like the old boards - so I can concentrate on who really wants help vs those that know it all but just want to complain. It'd make all of our lives here much easier.

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@ittybitnot wrote:

Bleeding us dry

 

I was able to read the whole post.  It is sad that some people's comprehension  and attention level prevented them from viewing the whole thing. 

 

I was a seller here since 1998.  I ramped up  my move in 2009.  I an not always the brightest crayon in the box, but felt the changes made even back then were NOT for my benefit.  I began building my reputation elsewhere, and it worked out for me.  I still enjoy all the benefits of ecommerce in the vintage field, just not with the punitive atmosphere that is on ebay anymore.  It can be done despite the warnings that we no longer here  about "ebay is the only place that has buyer traffic".  That I can tell you is a lie.  

 

I see changes in the wind...namely ebay making money on their liar buyer phony snad buyer population now, and their lawsuit against AMZ for inducing sellers to leave ebay.  Sellers were always "a dime a dozen, dispensible on a whim" regardless that they were human beings.  Nobody had to induce me to leave.  It simply did not work anymore.  Now I am a buyer, and purchase things that can be sold for ten times the price elsewere.

 

 

 

 


I have been watching that too and find it amusing. Sellers were never locked in to sell only on ebay to begin with and many wanted were unhappy and wanted to leave and voiced it as well while ebay ignored was busy ignoring it's sellers and collecting money and running their businesses into the ground.
Sellers would not have left if they did not want to which is the biggest red flag for ebay and they still miss it or flat out ignore it.

And things will change again, you are right. And from what I can see these sites are making whatever money they can for as long as they can, however they can because they know it too. The writing is on the wall. It will change and they will be no more at a point with the way they are going.
Nothing is forever.

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Re: Bleeding us dry

Since I never got involved with the guy - if indeed it is the same one I'm talking about - I don't know anything about scamming others. 

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@tunicaslot wrote:

Since I never got involved with the guy - if indeed it is the same one I'm talking about - I don't know anything about scamming others. 


You brought him up in the discussion and wanted to use him as an example so you should know I would think...or why use him as an example at all.
I was actually here when all that was going on.

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@tunicaslot wrote:

I think this is what's frustrating for many of us. People come here complaining - we offer advice but they know better.



OH and the OP did not ask for any advice....he ask for others to send emails if they wanted to and why. Nothing more than that.
And then some decided to have a discussion about things....also not asking for advice about anything.

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Re: Bleeding us dry


@tunicaslot wrote:

I think this is what's frustrating for many of us. People come here complaining - we offer advice but they know better. They are so head strong that hey are right and everyone else is wrong that there are times I just say why do I bother. But then I have someone pm me for more advice - or receive a pm from someone I helped months ago just to let me know how they are doing - and then it all seems worthwhile.

 

Ebay is not a good fit for everyone and I know it's hard when you have so much time and energy invested in something to let it go - but it's not a failure if you can't succeed here and concentrating on the other sites you do sell on makes your business and your whole outlook better.

 

I've had the same complaints as many here - slow to no sales, revised, did all the extras to increase visibility ect - and still sales were down. Sometimes what you sell is the main problem - I've already said that I am moving out of just regular run of the mill clothing into a niche - and it's working. My overall sell thru rate is down - but because my items sell for more - I'm actually mking more money even tho I'm selling less items. 

 

People have to accept that it's not always the venue - but themselves as far as how much work they are doing to make sure their business succeeds or what you sell is not sustainable anymore.


This is a key point-- people have to be willing to change and adapt to keep up with the ever-changing market if they want to remain competitive.  My B&M job did not offer in-store pickup for a long time... now they do, and it is a huge percentage of our sales.  They would not be seeing continued growth if they hadn't decided that adopting that option was a necessary change.  In fact, they would probably be LOSING money, because people are opting to do more and more of their shopping online.

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