Bayer scam

[yardeyarde]

The buyer purchased a mobile phone for $450. I shipped the via USPS item. After five days, the buyer requested a return, claiming that the phone’s battery overheats and the frame is damaged, even though the phone was in perfect condition. The buyer asked for a refund and and have  to return the item.

I agreed and go with return process. However, on the same day, eBay accepted the buyer’s “new arguments” and allowed them to keep my item while charging me the full price of the product.

The buyer kept the phone, which was in perfect condition, and received a full refund for it. All of this happened without my knowledge, and the case was closed within one day.

My losses:

• Pixel 9+ phone

• $450

• eBay fees

This is theft.

The buyer had good reviews, but all of them were written within one month, and the account was created just a month ago.

How can I fight against such scams?

[robbie31415]

It's simply a poor choice of words, such as I could care less about that. Most people understand the intended meaning despite the grammatical inconsistency.

[robbie31415]

It really is unfortunate.

It actually happens to me more selling on Amazon, where refunds just get issued without return when they deem the item hazardous. 

This is an area I think eBay needs to address. 

The only thing I can think of is pulling specific policy information from the USPS and do an appeal, with an argument that it was not hazardous, and try and get eBay to eat the refund.

[ittybitnot]

The delivery was most likely to a warehouse in Delaware

@yardeyarde 

International buyers that use a Freight Forwarder, forfeit their rights to use a "Money Back Guarantee" not as described claim.  eBay, of course, won't tell you that, or that a freight forwarder was used and processes it like any other domestic sale hoping you don't know any better.  Though it is best to contact eBay PRIOR to the deadline to issue a return label, there is still hope for you for this overplayed smart phone/forwarder scam.  

Contact eBay through one of their social media portals.  This puts you in touch with US based eBay employees that do have the authority to help you unlike the outsourced foreign call center reps you get on the phone with a call back or chat feature. 

https://www.facebook.com/eBay/ (use the blue message button)

OR one of these:

https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/

https://x.com/askebay

Ask politely for their assistance with the problem of a buyer that used a freight forwarder making what is apparently a false Money Back Guarantee claim, and see what they say.  Check to see if your "buyer" is still a registered user, as this is likely not their first rodeo with this plan AND they may already have been removed from the site.  It has been a long time since we were able to see a buyer ID that bought 10 or more iPhones and got feedback  (usually when the seller is paid) for only two of them.   That sort of information was useful as well, but no longer available to you.  In what country was your buyer located?  

When you send a return label it is from the US forwarder's address back to you.  Legally, it can't be used to return the item, but some have found a way for a person in the US to send a cheap trinket back to you (or an address in your Zip Code) to satisfy eBay that a return has been made using that label.  It has been rather successful, but not once YOU KNOW what to do if you are played by a buyer using a forwarding service.  

Good luck to you, and let us know how it turns out. 

[ampgroup2021]

I do believe that the seller only ever expected to have either his phone, or the money in exchange for his phone, at one time he indeed did have both, the phone and the money, at the same time, being a dutiful seller, he shipped his phone off..........and it's gone forever, and then the money went in the same direction shortly thereafter, the seller lost both, I do believe that he would be happy to have one or the other, I do not believe that he expected to keep both, and yet he has neither, he lost both.

[ittybitnot]

@mam98031 

Does that "twitter" link still work?  If not, the more recent one is: 

https://x.com/askebay

[robbie31415]

Yes, twitter.com still points to x.com.

There is no issue to still use twitter.com

[mam98031]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

@mam98031 

Does that "twitter" link still work?  If not, the more recent one is: 

https://x.com/askebay

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Yes it still works.

[yardeyarde]

Thank you for the advice.

I filed an appeal through my account, but unfortunately, the combination of my arguments was not accepted.

I am still hoping for the Facebook page

Unfortunately, I ended up without the phone and without my money.

Ebay decision 

After reviewing your appeal, we decided that we won't be able to change the outcome of the case.

After reviewing this case again we decided to keep the original outcome because we determined that the original decision was correct.After reviewing this case again we decided to keep the original outcome because we determined that the original decision was correct.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11Ivowd8Tc3Kl4kqILaCZOv-Xn8xakZfP/view?usp=sharing

[yardeyarde]

eBay is not disclosing the evidence provided by the seller. If USPS rejected, I would like to review the details of what was stated there.

The frustrating part is that any could potentially exploit this process, just as it happened in my case. It seems strange when something that belongs to you ends up in someone else’s hands, and you can’t get it back. Technically, if the buyer wanted to return it, they could have done so. I would have even picked it up myself since it’s close to my home (about a 30-minute drive).

[yardeyarde]

My English is quite poor, and I might have made a mistake in my text. However, my losses are as follows:

•Pixel 9 phone (the price of a similar one is $450 - 500)

•The $450 paid by the buyer was refunded to the buyer

•eBay fee: $66

•Two USPS labels: $12
Total almost $1000

[yardeyarde]

I accepted the return, but the phone was never shipped. The buyer mentioned that it is dangerous to return the phone due to a hazard.

[mam98031]

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@yardeyarde wrote:

I accepted the return, but the phone was never shipped. The buyer mentioned that it is dangerous to return the phone due to a hazard.

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I brought this up in an earlier post, but I haven't read a response to it.  Did you tell Ebay when you appealed the refund that when you shipped the phone it was not considered hazardous, what made it hazardous to return it????

[fbusoni]

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@chienoir wrote:

Welcome to eBay's longstanding, absurd bias that 'the buyer is always right'. We can't change the policies of eBay but we can try limit the damages incurred by a lying seller. In your listings, state that you don't accept returns unless the buyer can prove actual damage. Always appeal the decision made by eBay's bias to believe the lying seller. If the malicious buyer leaves you retributive negative feedback, respond to it and expose the liar. And always block that buyer from any future transactions with you.

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@chienoir 

I have highlighted in red two statements which, for the benefit of new eBay sellers who might read this thread, require some elaboration.

1.  Stating in a listing that a seller will not accept returns "unless the buyer can prove actual damage" is not a deterrent, but rather a non-starter and cannot and will not ever happen.  There is no burden of proof on a buyer.   The seller must accept returns if the item is not as described.  If the seller does not do so, eBay will get involved and the seller will lose his item and the payment he has received.  

2.  If a buyer leaves malicious negative feedback, a seller of course has the option of "exposing the liar" (BEWARE OF THIS BUYER!") but doing so is utterly pointless because no one, other than the seller, knows who the buyer is.   Responding professionally and politely to such feedback without the use of insults or foul language shows other eBay buyers that you, the seller, are able to manage your affairs with honor and dignity.   Of course, one should always block such buyers.  

But eBay employs AI and has the ability to scan seller responses to buyer feedback and to make note of how sellers comport themselves; same applies to communication between buyers and sellers in eBay messages.  I assume that because the capability exists, eBay is doing so.  regards

[cambriachick]

It's been said often on these message boards- Do not sell expensive items until you have been selling a while and have experience and built up some feedback.  This is way too common an issue.

[luckythewinner]

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@yardeyarde wrote:

My English is quite poor, and I might have made a mistake in my text. However, my losses are as follows:

•Pixel 9 phone (the price of a similar one is $450 - 500)

•The $450 paid by the buyer was refunded to the buyer

•eBay fee: $66

•Two USPS labels: $12
Total almost $1000 one phone and $78

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You started the transaction with a phone and $78. 

After it was all over, you had lost a phone and $78.  

Therefore your losses were a phone and $78.

The phone was worth $450, not $900. You are counting it's value twice in your losses.