11-22-2022 01:07 PM
If eBay doesn't like Black Americana collectibles, they shouldn't offer it as a posting category - unless, of course, they are using it as an entrapment tool. I know for a fact that most Black Americana collectors are themselves black - not haters and discriminators, as some would have us believe. They do it for a very special and innocent reason: to preserve items of black history - both good and bad. It's not the truth that hurts us, but subjugation of truth - no matter how "noble" the intent. So, eBay, by taking down these posts, are depriving these black collectors of the special items they like, and are in effect engaging in the very act of discrimination they claim to oppose.
11-22-2022 03:22 PM
11-22-2022 03:23 PM
For sure.
11-22-2022 03:25 PM
I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion.
11-22-2022 03:34 PM
@pargran3 wrote:this is a hornet's nest.
It is an interesting question as to just what exactly can be listed in that category.
I have no solution. Black Americana has reached an absurd cancel history roadblock. Discrimination and stereotypes existed. Trying to sweep it under the rug like it never happened does nobody any good. We have lost perspective. Then is not now. Germans and Japanese during WWII know what happened to them in this country. Pretending it never happened is a denial of history.
Indeed, because now-a-days most people don't seem able cope with the present more or less acknowledge, understand, nor CERTAINLY not be actionable on correcting historical wrong doings.
11-22-2022 03:37 PM - edited 11-22-2022 03:39 PM
@1786davycrockett wrote:
Once again -- "some" is not "most."
Oh, I agree. Sorry if I seemed to be agreeing with the "most" statement. I have no idea who "most" of the collectors are. I would assume they're White, for statistical reasons if nothing else.
I do not know a single White person who has a single piece of such material (or, if they do, I've never seen it.) As I said, I know only person who has any of it, and he is Black, and he has a lot of it. Much of it makes me shudder, but it's not about me.
As those articles all pointed out, among African Americans there is debate about collecting such material, whether collected by Black or White people. Obviously, motive is a big issue.
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11-22-2022 03:42 PM
My source is 40 years as a flea market dealer in both the North and the South. 9 out of 10 of the Black Americana collectors I associated with were black. That's the source of my claim. I am not doubting your claim. You asked for my source, and I gave it to you - but I certainly do agree with you: If you know white people who are paying $200 for an antique black doll just to hang it by a rope in their front window - then that truly is disgusting.
11-22-2022 03:44 PM
@pargran3 wrote:this is a hornet's nest.
It is an interesting question as to just what exactly can be listed in that category.
I have no solution. Black Americana has reached an absurd cancel history roadblock. Discrimination and stereotypes existed. Trying to sweep it under the rug like it never happened does nobody any good. We have lost perspective. Then is not now. Germans and Japanese during WWII know what happened to them in this country. Pretending it never happened is a denial of history.
No one is sweeping anything under the rug.
Imagine for a moment that once the allies liberated the concentration camps, they told the survivors “Hey, you’re free, good luck!”
But then they kept Jewish people segregated. Instigated a set of laws that made Jewish people equal BUT separated. They better not trying to sit in the front of the bus! And if they complain, we’ll get the hoses and the dogs.
Made up a whole type of entertainment that consisted of dressing up as Jewish people and making fun using the worst stereotypes.
Starting naming streets and buildings after SS commanders, cause it’s not hate, it’s heritage!
Let the Nazi flags fly, it’s not hate, it’s heritage!
Use hurtful, stereotypical caricature for centuries, and and call it Jewish Germanicana so white people won’t feel bad about collecting racist things.
Then have a bunch of towns decide that it’s okay if Jewish people want to come in during daylight, but as soon as the sun is gone, it’s open season. If Jewish people disappear without a trace, the police won’t even look for them cause they probably helped them disappear in the first place.
Have a bunch of whiny white dudes marching on Nuremberg with tiki torches yelling “Jews will no replace us!” and the chancellor saying “Awww, that’s harmless, there are good people on both sides!”
And when the schools want to teach about the rise of the National Socialist party, how they robbed the Jewish people of everything they had to finance their war machine, from their homes to their gold teeth, say ooooh no, we can’t teach that, that’s critical race theory, we can’t teach people about the darkest moment in our history! We’ll say that we locked people up, a lot died, but hey, not everyone in the camps were treated badly! Have you heard about the kapos? They voluntarily worked for their jailers! They liked it there!
All the while non Jewish people trade and profit off items from those eras. Jewish people may want to collect and preserve those artifacts as a way of dealing with their generational trauma but what can a white person want with an anti Jewish piece of Nazi propaganda? If not to educate, the alternatives are appalling.
And through all that, if Jewish people are hurt, they choose to be offended, that’s on them.
Germany did NONE of that. Yet no one has forgotten about the Holocaust. Makes you wonder.
11-22-2022 03:45 PM
"Trying to sweep it under the rug like it never happened does nobody any good. "
Over-generalizations such as this are part of the problem.
No reputable educational institution is planning on sweeping America's racist history "under the rug" -- although there are some political leaders who are attempting to pass legislation making it illegal to discuss racism in the United States -- and in Florida they have indeed swept "it under the rug like it never happened" for some grade levels.
However, eBay is NOT an educational institution -- eBay is a retail sales platform; and, as such, has every right to establish what may (or may not) be sold on the platform which they own -- and among those items are demeaning and racist Black ephemera.
Just because you may not find them on eBay does not forbid them from being sold elsewhere -- which is a pretty far cry from sweeping anything "under the rug." Just check out many antique stores and flea markets -- no limits there.
11-22-2022 03:45 PM
That is truly sad. I'm sorry to hear it.
11-22-2022 03:46 PM - edited 11-22-2022 03:50 PM
There's currently 150,000+ listings on eBay under the Category of Black Americana ... most of which are simply photographs of black Americans throughout the years.
Can we not distinguish between a photo of a black woman in a WAC uniform from WWII ... and a drawing of a black toddler drinking from a bottle of ink entitled 'N----- Milk' ? **
** I found both of the above by Googling Black Americana. Do we have to remove the entire Category to avoid people confusing one from the other?
11-22-2022 03:48 PM
They can, and they do.
11-22-2022 03:49 PM
Maybe not to you - but to them the items are indeed special.
11-22-2022 03:55 PM
"Can we not distinguish between a photo of a black woman in a WAC uniform from WWII ... and a drawing of a black toddler drinking from a bottle of ink entitled 'N----- Milk' ? **
** I found both of the above by Googling Black Americana. Do we have to remove the entire Category to avoid people confusing one from the other?"
omg...that makes me sick.
11-22-2022 03:56 PM
9 out of 10 of the Black Americana collectors I associated with in my 40 years as a flea market dealer in both the North and South were black. And that is the source of my claim.
11-22-2022 03:59 PM
Well, white people have spoken out for years on what they think black people are and should believe. In the end it usually doesn't work out well.