Assuming blame for damage shipping

[nickna3299]

I have a huge  problem with the concept that a seller is responsible for damage occurred during shipping even when the buyer plainly states there is visible damage to the box.  I dont feel its right to then hang it on the buyer but in the case of a USPS claim the person making the claim will be required to bring the physical package and item in for inspection. So unfortunately that falls on the receiver/buyer.  Second in line, if the sellers listing states "accepts no returns", should make it fall on ebay and their money back guarantee. Why does it seem the seller always ends up with the raw deals, who's moral compass are these decisions aligned with?

[fern*wood]

Also, I know how frustrating this situation is, but folks here are just trying to help.  We all have our own experiences, and offer them up to try to help.  We give advice and opinions based on that every day to posters because often at least one of us have had the exact problem, but of course, you personally know more facts about your particular situation than we can know.

[nickna3299]

So are you saying that in each and every situation that an item is damaged during shipping that it falls on the sellers. Because if that's what you're saying I would really like to hear your justification for feeling that way. I would really like to hear how you would, without question peel off $250  just because a buyer, without photo proof and 4 days after it was delivered opens a claim and states the box "partially crushed" and you know for an absolute fact the piece was properly package and you are a seller with a spotless reputation and you plainly dont not accepted returns in your listings. You're telling me that without hesitation you would shell out the cash with no fuss? If that's the case that's fine, we will agree to disagree but I would really love to hear your reasoning 

[lux.ra_14]

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@nickna3299 wrote:

... and you plainly dont not accepted returns in your listings.

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You can state it as your policy, but there's really no such thing as no returns on eBay. Only applies with buyer remorse, and that isn't the case here. 

[nickna3299]

Thanks for the compliment but honestly my listing are a little shabby right now. I'm in the process of moving back west so I've selling all my stock down so I'm not dragging it across the country, I'm kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel right now. Check back in bout two months. And as far as my post I was really just venting, I had no idea that I would get these folks coming out of the woodwork with the little bit of information I gave and start casting judgment and telling I'm wrong lol. I just realized you could click and see everyone's stock and was not surprised that the ones giving me the goofiest responses either didn't appear to be active sellers or their selling $5 trinkets and wouldn't hesitate to issue a little refund. So thanks for not being one of those guys. The answer is to just make sure your shipment are fully insured because for whatever reason **bleep** rolls down hills and that's where ebay sellers reside unfortunately. I'll never understand why ebay seems to go out of their way to make it hard to profit, we definitely seem to get the shaft unfortunately. But they're a necessary evil for what I'm trying to do right now but it won't always be the case and it only gets to me every once in a while. Anyway thanks for your input and I'll probably try to spend more time in the forums so I'm sure we'll run in to each other regularly 👍

[nickna3299]

Oh I'm good, I was just a little surprised that a few people thought that I had opened myself up to criticism by making a generalized statement about a situation I was going though as a seller. It made a little more sense when I realized their business model and mine appear to be two completely different monsters all together. I'll know more about how this is all gonna fall on the 10th and I'll update for those that are interested. Whether I end up having to pay or not I promise ebay mediators will have no doubt where I stand on this subject lol

[fbusoni]

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@nickna3299 wrote:

So are you saying that in each and every situation that an item is damaged during shipping that it falls on the sellers. Because if that's what you're saying I would really like to hear your justification for feeling that way. I would really like to hear how you would, without question peel off $250  just because a buyer, without photo proof and 4 days after it was delivered opens a claim and states the box "partially crushed" and you know for an absolute fact the piece was properly package and you are a seller with a spotless reputation and you plainly dont not accepted returns in your listings. You're telling me that without hesitation you would shell out the cash with no fuss? If that's the case that's fine, we will agree to disagree but I would really love to hear your reasoning 

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@nickna3299 

I am a 25 year eBay seller with a spotless reputation.  I also offer same day shipping and 60 day paid returns.  I ship mostly porcelain, china and glass.

Yes, it is the sellers responsibility, always.  The reason I say that is that we have no choice BUT to assume full responsibility, inasmuch as USPS insurance is utterly worthless.   

I'm too old, and, quite frankly, cannot be bothered to put up a fight against an organization that will make me jump through hoops and in the end not work with me;  and the idea that I am going to ask a buyer to tote a box down to the local post office for inspection is, in my opinion, beyond preposterous.   

So I've merely adapted: I provide my own insurance.

I have made more than enough money on eBay over the past quarter century to be able to afford a $250 loss once a month if necessary.    It's all baked in to my asking prices.   Fortunately I have not ever had a loss of such magnitude, but in case I do, I'll process a refund.   Photo evidence is normal and customary and I've never heard of a buyer withholding photo evidence of damage.

Indeed, those who buy from me (older, wealthier eBay buyers usually) will always provide me with photos and evidence to support their claims.   A lady sent me a photo of a broken wine glass (I shipped her a set of four) and told me she felt horrible having to bring the issue up.  I immediately sent her a refund for 1/3 of her total purchase price.  She was thrilled.  What was I to do ... interrogate her?  

Finally, stating that you "plainly don't accept returns" is just silliness, because in case of a damaged item, the seller will have to compensate the buyer for a broken item, one way or another.

[fbusoni]

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@dbfolks166mt wrote:

@fbusoni you do not want the buyer to reship the damaged item back to you.  The USPS does not want it back in the system.  How do they know it wasn't damaged on the way back. 

At least this is what I have always understood to be true.  

     You would be correct if the receiver returns it it voids the insurance coverage. 

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Thank you @dbfolks166mt , that is vitally important information about which I was unaware.   I do not bank on USPS insurance; rather, I have baked insurance into my listing prices over many years and provide my own insurance if things go awry.  regards

[bonjourami]

" Whether I end up having to pay or not I promise ebay mediators will have no doubt where I stand on this subject lol"

Thats called tilting at windmills.

[reallynicestamps]

A seller can have a No Returns policy.

This makes sense if the seller never wants to see the item again, such as a box of glassware broken in transit. No one wants a box of shards.

A seller cannot have a No Refunds policy.

Even with a No Returns policy the seller can demand the return of the disputed item, but they will be refunding on return and will usually also be paying for that return.

EBay cannot see what was sent. EBay cannot see what was returned.

EBay goes with a KISS policy.

If the buyer is not satisfied, they will be refunded.

If the shipment was damaged in transit, that is a matter between the seller and their sub-contracted shipper, not the buyer nor the venue.

[reallynicestamps]

This incident will be my 3rd request for a refund due to shipping damage.

That's a lot of claims in a short time, eight months.

But if you are shipping three items a week, then the percentage of damage claims is pretty low.

Have you considered Cookie Jar Insurance?

This is just a cutesy way of saying that you should put a small amount , a dime or a dollar, from each sale into a virtual Cookie Jar as a sort of self-insurance premium against Claims.

Those claims can include damage in shipping (bonus, you are not paying "real" insurance premiums to the shipper, put that saved virtual money in the Cookie Jar too), late deliveries that generate Item Not Received  claims,  but also your own goofs - selling a set of four cups and saucers but only shipping four cups and three saucers  as a silly example.

[nickna3299]

Lol, that's an intriguing saying but I don't get it. And I'd that's what you're saying I would have to begrudgingly agree with you unfortunately. However, I've got to come up with something to take the sting of having $260-some-odd dollars stolen from me, if that is indeed the outcome, and short of depositing this into my Motivation account thar I'm building in hopes of one day cashing in in exchange direct to customer sales model and leaving, what I am quickly learning are,  predatory digital platforms that make it unnecessarily hard on ground up businesses to obtain real tangible profits out of basic greed. So it may not get any mountains moved but I guarantee it will put a few grey hairs in the unfortunate mediators day have to convince me that this policy, first of all exists, and second of all makes the slightest bit of sense 😉

[tobaccocardyahoo]

The parties to the transaction are Buyer, Seller and Ebay to a lesser extent.

Consumer protection laws were written to protect the buyer from receiving other than what they purchased, in the condition they purchased it unless they purchased the item in person, where they are still protected from hidden damage in many cases.

Credit card regulations also provide buyer protections and place limits on final sale transactions.

The seller takes the bulk of the risk. The seller also packs the item and chooses the carrier. The seller takes all risk of damage. The seller can, if he wishes to, insure the shipment in a means which protects him from shipping damage. That insurance does not change his requirement to compensate the buyer for damage.

The government decided that their moral compass said the buyers must be protected. The banks which issue the credit cards implemented the government dictated morality, Ebay sets its rules to comply with the government's morality.

If you do not want to always end up with the raw deals, sell for cash at a flea market or out of the trunk of your car. But make sure that your medical insurance is up to date if you can be found by your buyers,

[fbusoni]

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@nickna3299 wrote:

I just realized you could click and see everyone's stock and was not surprised that the ones giving me the goofiest responses either didn't appear to be active sellers or their selling $5 trinkets and wouldn't hesitate to issue a little refund. 👍

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Those of us with no visible listings use a second ID for the forums because we want to insulate our valuable eBay seller accounts from the nonsense that goes on here in the forums.

Do you typically get your exercise by jumping to conclusions?   👍

[krazzykats]

The seller is responsible because, the seller packaged the shipment and chose the carrier.

[fbusoni]

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@bonjourami wrote:

" Whether I end up having to pay or not I promise ebay mediators will have no doubt where I stand on this subject lol"

Thats called tilting at windmills.

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That made me laugh.  As if eBay will take notice of where he "stands."

Good grief.  🤣