eBay

twk · ‎02-14-2019

I have been on ebay, as a buyer and seller since 1998 and the scammers are getting ridiculous. I sell antiques and vintage items and take great pains to describe and lots of pictures.

Today I had a case opened against me for a NAD when it is exactly what the seller bought. It was a teapot, dimensions given, lots of pictures and now seller claims it - get this - only holds 3 cups! This is a good size English teapot and holds much more than 3 cups. Also, the buyer has had since Saturday and just today opens the claim against me.

Fortunately, I had to cancel my first postage label on this because I forgot to add the insurance for $100 and had to do a second one. I also let the buyer know why I canceled the first label so she KNEW it was fully INSURED. She claims NO damage to item, just allegedly wrong item but provides no pictures, just verbage on her claim.

I have already talked to Ebay returns on this and the young man tried to close the claim in my favor but it is too soon. He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

How should I handle? Yeah I know I will be advised to just take it back, but I have had far too many cases in the last two years where I eat the shipping and return costs for buyer's remorse....especially since they seem to have learned that to get ALL their money back an item not as described is the way to go.

Hubby and I have been on ebay for a long time and are small time sellers and not equipped for returns due to buyer remorse etc. In the past we have tried to accommodate but buyers are really misusing the system. If they just want to return they know they will not get original shipping back and will have to pay for return themselves, BUT if they claim NASD they get it all back.

With increases In shipping this is getting way out of line.

ja-2149 · ‎02-15-2019

@twk wrote:
Where does it say they get to keep the teapot if I don't accept the buyer scam of filing a phony NASD?

voguevintage · ‎02-15-2019

Most buyers have learned to work the system and unfortunately in almost every case us sellers are left hanging out to dry.

It is the reality these days, sadly.

The system is designed basically to allow buyers to walk over us and we can almost never win.

I just wish eBay wouldn't tell them that they'll have to pay for a "I changed my mind" return vs. a "Not as Described" return up front so they'd pick based on an honest view of the matter and not whether or not it will cost them.

It's like "Hmmm... I can pick up pay for the return or not... what should I do!?"

Of course 99% of the time they will pick the option that allows them to return for free, even if they know that it's not the reason it's being returned.

vettenoodle · ‎02-16-2019

"If the item you received doesn't match the description in the original listing, or if it arrived faulty or damaged, you're covered under the eBay Money Back Guarantee. You can return it even if the seller's returns policy says they don't accept returns."

Search money back guarantee, and in particular the part about asking Ebay to step in and help. If you do not resolve it, Ebay will.

no_zero369 · ‎02-16-2019

Oh good, I hope you are in competition with me so I can go buy your item win a SNAD case a drive you off of the site. Less competition for me! jk

I just do not understand sellers who do not stay up-to-date with eBay's policies, do not work into their business plan how to deal with returns and take things personally when they go badly.

But hey, then again, once a seller disappears another two probably start up again!

little.font.lord.leroy · ‎02-16-2019

@ittybitnot wrote:
Unfortunately, you were given the wrong information. It is true that, in the not so distant past, a seller was able to call and refute the SNAD claim. That has now changed, and calling does little good.

I am not so sure about that, and it would be a sad day if it were true. Could you be talking about sellers who accept returns?

@ittybitnot wrote:
He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

Next time if you decide to call, take names, note the time, and get a call reference number so you can prove you were given false information.

This bears repeating.

1. Prepare yourself before you make a call to eBay.

2. Expect the conversation will not go the way you expect it to.

3. Have a pen and pencil ready or open a blank note page on your computer (Wordpad, TextEdit) and save it to a folder marked "eBay call records" or some such, and type notes on it.

a. write down the time you called,

b. when the rep answers write down their name (ask how to spell it)

c. take notes. even if just a jot ( ie: rep: ur in the right...)

d. If the rep makes a promise, as to the OP, ask them to make a note of it. and attach it to your account.

4. Last but most important, state just the facts, chronologically. no opinions.

ie: the item was received June 19, The buyer Messaged me on Jun 28th stating "it's too small" , The listing gives the exact dimensions. The seller confirmed that I sent the same teapot as described in the listing.

No Opinions please: the seller waited over a week to file a case and I think (opinion) they are trying to make a switcheroo with a smaller teapot and rip me off.

and Never use "not".

ie "they buyer did not call me right away" (the buyer called me a week after receiving the item on June 28th),

"the buyer did not say it was a different size" (the buyer confirmed that they received the same tea pot as listed).

The buyer didn't say it was damaged, and he didn't say it wasn't as described. (The buyer confirmed it was in undamaged condition and as described, they just wanted a bigger tea pot than the one listed and made a mistake)

When you call back, say On (date) I talked to (rep) they said "...." and they placed a note on my account to confirm that.

And just because it came up:

"Looking on a big replacement site I find that there IS a smaller teapot, but it is not the one I sold. Wondering if it is a switcheroo deal here. "

There is a very good reason for any seller to spend a few lousy bucks on a good ruler. Then hire a 5th grader to teach how to use it, if you don't know how because too many don't seem to. (Hint: the end with the the number one is placed flush to the item, the item is not tossed casually onto the ruler) and then place the ruler abut to your item for photo reference, so when you write that it's 5 inches long, you can prove that you know how to use a ruler. A sewing cutting board with 1" marks is also a good investment, they can be had for under $10.

Also as a side note, use the return process to question the buyer. The buyer may think that SNAD means "not quite what I was expecting" or "after getting it I realized this isn't what I wanted" and since eBay doesn't give them a choice that says exactly that ("I change my mind", doesn't count for them) they pick SNAD. In their mind they are not trying to cheat you.

A clever seller might be able to elicit information to get the real reason from the buyer, in a PM or within the communication in the return process. "I would like to help, what were you expecting to receive?", "The listing was for a 5" teapot, what size were you looking for?" (this last question is to confirm that they received the same size as listed (as described) with out asking a yes/no question that causes them to buckle down on the "significantly not as" option,.

also don't ask a question that accuses them of being an idiot, like "in what way is it NOT AS DESCRIBED!!!!!!!, I make every effort to be accurate and accommodating but buyers like you make me want to just up and quit ....".

little.font.lord.leroy · ‎02-16-2019

little.font.lord.leroy · ‎02-16-2019

@sharingtheland wrote:
@doubledz-a2z wrote:
@twk wrote:
Yes, that is what I did as soon as I saw the return request and reason why. The young man checked out the listing and the buyers claim and saw nothing indicating reason for return as NASD. Though he did ask me if I was going to file a claim for it after I told him it was insured with the USPO which was interesting. I told him there was no way a claim could be made as it was not broken.
He did take his time, read the listing and her comments and told me I wasn't going to lose any money on this one. He guaranteed it, but because it was a new claim he, try as he might, couldn't close it right then. Something about how it would be reviewed and I would be alright.

PERFECT. The rep will put a note on the item with what you discussed. Sellers can win disputes. I don't know why the haters come out in force when the seller thinks they are in right and want to prove it. They need to learn how to make Ebay work.
Are you willing to reimburse OP the $99+ if she follows your advice?

Sherry, are you will to pay @doubledz-a2z $99+ if the OP takes their advice and wins the case?

little.font.lord.leroy · ‎02-16-2019

@geande_1502 wrote:
Yeah put YOUR money where your mouth is and repay the Op when they lose the case

Again, put YOUR money where your mouth is and pay doubledz-a2z if the OP wins the case.

little.font.lord.leroy · ‎02-16-2019

@vintagecraze50 wrote:
People return things for all kinds of reasons. Some are actually addicted to buying and returning stuff, they call them seriel returners. Some buy stuff wear it use it and return it. Look at the long lines at Walmart with all the stuff piled up behind the counter. Walmart, and a lot of big stores now keep records of returners and at some point say, '"sorry, no more return priveleges".

There is a huge difference here. Walmart purchases every single item they sell. They know their items are new and authentic.

Ebay doesn't have a clue what an individual seller is selling or where they got it in the first place. There are serial cheaters on eBay who, when the heat is turned on , just make up a new id and start selling again.

Certain categories, like coins, comic books, stamps, sterling silver, jewelry, books have a higher amount of items that are described as mint, like new, or authentic but end up being far from it. If you buy in those categories, while eBay offers protection against fraud, it shouldn't be the onus of the buyer to prevent being defrauded by eBay sellers. In that case "sorry, no more return privileges" (because you have run into too many fraudsters) would look like eBay is acting like a fence trying to protect criminal activities.

ittybitnot · ‎02-16-2019

since eBay doesn't give them a choice that says exactly that ("I change my mind",

LOL..that is EXACTLY one of the choices given to the buyer. Unfortunately, for the buyer, the seller with a no returns policy can refuse the return.

OR

If the seller does take returns, a buyer that honestly chooses this finds out right away they are supposed to return the item on their dime for the return shipping.

Thus the rush to the SNAD complaint...both sellers mentioned above are on the hook for a metric ding, return shipping, and the knowlege that it will matter not what is in the parcel that comes back.

However, be advised if you are a "free returns" seller you only have to refund 50% of that $1000 payment when you get back a rubber band instead of your gold bracelet.

little.font.lord.leroy · ‎02-16-2019

@albertabrightalberta wrote:
@twk wrote:
In all due respect, I sold and sent the buyer what Aynsley says is their 5 cup teapot, which measures approx. 5 1/2" tall, in the Wild Tudor pattern. Buyer claims it only holds 3 cups. Can't be because even Aynsley says it is the 5 cupper.

I sold a belt several months ago. It was size 40, imprinted and stamped size 40 by the designer/manufacturer right into the leather, titled as "size 40," item specifics as size 40 and in the body of the description was size 40. (2)

When buyer received, he claimed it was SNAD because it was only 39.75 (6)and he wears a size 40 so this is too small. (1)

I was sure this would be a slam-dunk because it was right there in black and white. I didn't make the belt and I didn't do the embossing of the size. (2)

The first person I spoke to "promised" me that I'd win the case but it was "too soon to close it" so I should wait it out before escalating. But just as you were told, he assured me I'd win when I called back. (3)

After 9 days of not being able to come to an agreement with the buyer (4), I called back and got a different CS person who told me that if he closed the case, he'd close it in favor of the buyer and I'd get a defect (7). Buyer claims it's SNAD so it's SNAD.

I ultimately accepted the return, paid return shipping and avoided a defect.

Bottom line is that they tell you what you want to hear knowing that they'll never talk to you again.

See if understand.

1. buyer filed a SNAD.

2. you were sure you were in the right for reasons. you call eBay right away.

3. The rep agrees with you but informs you that you are in the negotiation phase.

4. So, now you decide to negotiate with the buyer.

5. But rather than try to get information from the buyer or actually "negotiate" why bother? A rep already told you you're right the buyer is wrong.

6. The buyer held the belt up to a tape measure and the entire length of the belt (from tip to tip/or from largest hole to buckle pin) was 39.75". So, even though the manufacturer called it a size 40, they were wrong, and even though you listed it at size 40, you also were clearly wrong.

7. You contact a different CS who reads your (smug) communications with the buyer, and rightly concedes that the original rep didn't have enough information to go on and he would now have to conclude you are wrong because a belt that is only 39.75" isn't 40".

8. You ultimately accepted the return.

Again, for any sellers who want to avoid the above. Buy a measuring tape. Find a 5th grader to show you how to use it, if you don't know how. Photograph the item with the measuring tape clearly showing the length.

hargan · ‎02-16-2019

I, too have been on eBay mostly as a buyer, since 1999. First of all, unless the eBay representative put what is said in writing, don't believe him. I just got scammed by eBay that very way. I accepted a return, for a game which supposedly wasn't working anymore. The return arrived incomplete. It also wasn't in the EXACT condition as it was sent out either. eBay kept sending me emails that the item was delivered and to issue a return. I couldn't, yet because I was waiting on the game instructions and I had to clean the game. I called eBay 4 different times to keep them from issuing a full refund and spoke with 4 different persons including two in mediation and a return specialist who told me that I had the option to wait for the instructions then issue a refund, which I chose to do. Guess what happened? They issued the refund in full to the buyer despite what they told me. The Appeal "specialist" even told me that they wouldn't help me get back my instructions. Don't believe eBay. They're all for the buyer.

Next thing is, the eBay Money Back Guarantee trumps a seller's return policy once the buyer claims the INAD or is faulty. on ebay, the customer is always right unless there is strong evidence to the contrary. Good luck! I feel for you and I sell very rarely and this is why. My new mantra is, Shopping on eBay can be fun. Selling not so much.

hargan · ‎02-16-2019

I, too have been on eBay mostly as a buyer, since 1999. First of all, unless the eBay representative put what is said in writing, don't believe him. I just got scammed by eBay that very way. I accepted a return, for a game which supposedly wasn't working anymore. The return arrived incomplete. It also wasn't in the EXACT condition as it was sent out either. eBay kept sending me emails that the item was delivered and to issue a return. I couldn't, yet because I was waiting on the game instructions and I had to clean the game. I called eBay 4 different times to keep them from issuing a full refund and spoke with 4 different persons including two in mediation and a return specialist who told me that I had the option to wait for the instructions then issue a refund, which I chose to do. Guess what happened? They issued the refund in full to the buyer despite what they told me. The Appeal "specialist" even told me that they wouldn't help me get back my instructions. Don't believe eBay. They're all for the buyer.

Next thing is, the eBay Money Back Guarantee trumps a seller's return policy once the buyer claims the item not as described or is faulty. on eBay, the customer is always right unless there is strong evidence to the contrary. Good luck! I feel for you and I sell very rarely and this is why. My new mantra is, Shopping on eBay can be fun. Selling not so much.

twk · ‎02-16-2019

Well I am generally inclined to agree with you in this matter about the teapot I don't.

The person claims it is a small pot which it is not. Had she just let me know that she didn't like it I would have sent her the label to return it with her paying the return shipping costs and original shipping.

The scam comes because so many buyers claim NASD just so they don't have to pay for any of the shipping costs. Ebay is training them that way.

Hubby and I won't do that free return shipping thing beause that encourages all those dolts out there that don't read, don't look at the pictures and think that the item they buy from you for $9 should be worth a heck of a lot more.

One scammer I had bought an expensive blue and white transferware platter. One week after she received it I get a case opened on ebay that the item arrived broken, NASD, but she refuses to provide pictures so that I can see. When I tell her that she should save box, bubble wrap and peanuts because the item is fully insured with the USPO and they will want to see it when I file the claim to get her back her money, I never hear from her again. That platter was over $250.00 and she had to sign for it.

She never closed the case, ebay did. These days I insure everything

vintagecraze50 · ‎02-16-2019

A SNAD IS whatever they imagine. I have been getting a larger number of just returns lately as well and one just recently is someone imagining something is wrong with the item. In this particular case I even gave this person a discount on the item. I should absolutely know better by now that when I an nice to people and give them discounts a great many of these turn into returns. It is really a weird phenomena but it seems to happen when we do this for people. NO MORE.