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Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

I have been on ebay, as a buyer and seller since 1998 and the scammers are getting ridiculous.  I sell antiques and vintage items and take great pains to describe and lots of pictures.

 

Today I had a case opened against me for a NAD when it is exactly what the seller bought.  It was a teapot, dimensions given, lots of pictures and now seller claims it - get this - only  holds 3 cups!  This is a good size English teapot and holds much more than 3 cups.  Also, the buyer has had since Saturday and just today opens the claim against me.

 

Fortunately, I had to cancel my first postage label on this because I forgot to add the insurance for $100 and had to do a second one.  I also let the buyer know why I canceled the first label so she KNEW it was fully INSURED.  She claims NO damage to item, just allegedly wrong item but provides no pictures, just verbage on her claim.

 

I have already talked to Ebay returns on this and the young man tried to close the claim in my favor but it is too soon.  He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

 

How should I handle?  Yeah I know I will be advised to just take it back, but I have had far too many cases in the last two years where I eat the shipping and return costs for buyer's remorse....especially since they seem to have learned that to get ALL their money back an item not as described is the way to go.

 

Hubby and I have been on ebay for a long time and are small time sellers and not equipped for returns due to buyer remorse etc.  In the past we have tried to accommodate but buyers are really misusing the system.  If they just want to return they know they will not get original shipping back and will have to pay for return themselves, BUT if they claim NASD they get it all back.

 

With increases In shipping this is getting way out of line.

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System


@slippinjimmy wrote:

Where is the "scam"?

 

Buyer bought and gave you money, now buyer is going to return to get their money back.

 

You will have your teapot and the buyer will have their money......again I ask where is the "scam".

 

Selling a "container" (teapot or similar) without giving the volume/capacity (yes I know you gave exterior dimensions) seems like a recipe for buyer disappointment.

 

I was recently shopping for an electric kettle, just about every one I looked at has the capacity right in the Title, it's a critical bit of info when buying this type of item when you can't hold it in your hand (and even when you can).

 

 


Here is the scam.  Buyer received exactly what was listed but didn't like the capacity after they received the item.

A honest, trustworthy buyer would return the teapot ON THEIR OWN DIME.  They would not expect the seller to pay for a return just because they didn't like the item.   Seller loses not only the sale, but adding insult to injury, must pay for a return of an 'as described item'.  

I do believe the measurements were in the listing. 

And if the measurements weren't adequate, should have contacted the seller for the needed information.

E-bay and many posters are way to eager to allow buyers to get away with whatever they want.

 

COYOTES RULE!!!

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System


@twk wrote:

I have been on ebay, as a buyer and seller since 1998 and the scammers are getting ridiculous.  I sell antiques and vintage items and take great pains to describe and lots of pictures.

 

Today I had a case opened against me for a NAD when it is exactly what the seller bought.  It was a teapot, dimensions given, lots of pictures and now seller claims it - get this - only  holds 3 cups!  This is a good size English teapot and holds much more than 3 cups.  Also, the buyer has had since Saturday and just today opens the claim against me.

 

Fortunately, I had to cancel my first postage label on this because I forgot to add the insurance for $100 and had to do a second one.  I also let the buyer know why I canceled the first label so she KNEW it was fully INSURED.  She claims NO damage to item, just allegedly wrong item but provides no pictures, just verbage on her claim.

 

I have already talked to Ebay returns on this and the young man tried to close the claim in my favor but it is too soon.  He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

 

How should I handle?  Yeah I know I will be advised to just take it back, but I have had far too many cases in the last two years where I eat the shipping and return costs for buyer's remorse....especially since they seem to have learned that to get ALL their money back an item not as described is the way to go.

 

Hubby and I have been on ebay for a long time and are small time sellers and not equipped for returns due to buyer remorse etc.  In the past we have tried to accommodate but buyers are really misusing the system.  If they just want to return they know they will not get original shipping back and will have to pay for return themselves, BUT if they claim NASD they get it all back.

 

With increases In shipping this is getting way out of line.


In my opinion do not fight the return.  Simply send them a return label and refund when the item comes back then fight the return through the proper e-bay channels.  

 

Anything else is likely to end up with you losing both the item and the money.  Your description was clear.  You gave the measurements in inches, etc.  You never made a claim that it would hold more than 3 cups and were pretty clear on the rest of the pot.  Pictures were good.

 

As sellers our choices are few and far between but E-bay still gives us the option to fight the final outcome after the item is back in your hands and the buyer has been refunded.

 

COYOTES RULE!!!

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System


@richards*collection wrote:
I dont see what the big deal is. I dont take returns. If ebay wants to keep making money off me and my items, then they will not sabotage this gravy train. The second I lose money or shipping charges or lose anything or get scammed I'm gone. I just won't turn my computer on again for several years. I have been selling for over five years and ebay has made good with any problems that have come up, thank you ebay for a wonderful working relationship and for watching my back/picking up the slack, great job ebay! (maybe you should have more faith in ebay)

 

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

SO the guy you talked to said you would absolutely win but couldn't figure out how to make it so you win, and you believed him?

 

If I'm talking to someone who says I will absolutely not have  to pay something I make sure that they reverse the charge and I follow up on it and want to know that it is done. I would never take the word of someone who tells me I will win but has no idea how to close the case in my favor.

 

If I was calling the power company and got this, I would realize that in 10 years I have never had an issue with the power company. I've been on eBay 20 years and I never trust them more than I can lose. NEVER.

 

Show of hands here. Who would believe eBay telling them that they will win, when at the same time not even knowing how to fix the problem?



"Believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything" Colin Kaepernick the new face of NIKE
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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

Thank you - Right on on that.  In fact I heard from the dolt and she says she filled it with 8 oz per cup.  Da......a tea cup is about 5-6 oz and that is how the English (and they know a lot about tea pots) figure it.   I can honestly say that this teapot holds more than 24 oz. to the tippy top, as she claims.

 

As I said, I bet I get the smaller tea pot back and lose shipping both way.  I think I have this figured how eBay seller protection works.  I get tea pot back and pay shipping both ways, if I scream enough ebay will refund me return shipping.  I don't think they will give a hoot if I get the original item back or a dud.

 

You know, the more you try to protect yourself against scammers the worse it seems to get.  I dodged the bullet a few months ago after someone won an auction but not only did not have a confirmed PayPal address in the USA to send it to (he wanted me to send it to an APO) he also wanted to use a foreign credit card, which I don't take.  To this day he is still pestering me to sell him the item but now he is on my blocked bidders list.  If I recall he was from Italy.

 

I don't ship outside the contingent 48 states and only accept US currency. 

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System


@creekcoyote wrote:
Anything else is likely to end up with you losing both the item and the money.  Your description was clear.  You gave the measurements in inches, etc.  You never made a claim that it would hold more than 3 cups and were pretty clear on the rest of the pot.  Pictures were good.

Wellll... the entire dimension description is this: "This fine piece measures approx. 5 1/2" tall and about 9" from the tip of the spout to the end of the handle." There is no reference to its capacity at all, not in cups, ounces or anything else. While the 5½" height measurement is helpful, it's missing any measurement of the diameter, which would give a better sense of its volume. Measuring the width across from handle to tip is a start, but you have to kind of eyeball how much of that width is really the body of the pot. I would say from the photos in the listing that it's probably no more than about 5" in diameter.

 

The next point of confusion is about who's counting the number of cups, and how big each one is. A 1-cup measurement is 8 fluid ounces, same as a decent-sized teacup, but if you're serving it in mugs, the volume gets used up pretty quickly, so one person's 5-cup pot might only yield another person 3 mugs of tea. As the listing didn't specify any cup capacity at all, regardless of cup size, the buyer can only guess.

 

Speaking as a caffeine enthusiast who's actually shaken hands with the current Lord Earl Grey (nice guy), I did some quick measuring with a definitely-larger pot that we use when serving 5-6 guests, filling it with water to what I would normally use for a full pot, and then pouring repeatedly into a measuring cup to see exactly how much volume of tea it would make. Our pot is about 6" tall and 6½" diameter (spherical, tapering above and below the beltline), and about 9¾" across handle-to-tip.

 

It turned out that when filled to within about an inch of the top, it yielded seven 8-ounce cups. However, when I filled one of our favorite tea-stained mugs, then dumped that into the measuring cup, I found that the mug had taken about 1 1/3 cups, around about 11 ounces. Larger mugs would drain the pot even faster. 

 

So basically, that listing is a tough call, as far as judging what the pot really holds. I don't think a 5-cup capacity would be an unreasonable guess in this case, but again, you should at least try it and see, and be clear on whether you're counting teacups, mugs, actual 8-ounce measured cups, or whatever. At minimum, I would have measured how much liquid can be poured out of it into a measuring cup, so that you can say in the description, "This pot can brew [x] ounces of tea," and leave it up to the buyer to decide how many of his own cups or mugs can be filled from it.

 

So basically, I would suggest taking it back for a refund. Yes, that stinks, but at least you can get the pot back. The alternative is not getting the pot back, but either way, eBay is going to ensure that the buyer gets refunded, so retrieve the pot first, and relist it with a bit more detail. Since you know from experience that buyers will pay $99.99 for it, you might try auctioning it next time, with that as your opening price, and see if it goes for even more than that. Good luck...

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System


@soh.maryl wrote:

The person who advised that you will not lose because you don't take returns is ill-informed.

Ebay's Money Back Guarantee overrules any "no returns" policy you may believe you have in place.

You may want to take some time to read it so that you understand the options open to eBay buyers.


Returning an ALTERED or OPENED BOX item is different than a NAD.   I have been on ebay since its inception and followed all the changes.  Come back in 2035 and we can discuss policy.    I am so sick of all the threads regarding fraud and scam buyers and posters that think they should roll over to Ebay.   In fact as hard as it might be, I think this will be my last post.  I have a new dog and when I think about coming to the Community I will grab his leash.  HAPPY RETURNS!

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System


@richards*collection wrote:
I dont see what the big deal is. I dont take returns. If ebay wants to keep making money off me and my items, then they will not sabotage this gravy train. The second I lose money or shipping charges or lose anything or get scammed I'm gone. I just won't turn my computer on again for several years. I have been selling for over five years and ebay has made good with any problems that have come up, thank you ebay for a wonderful working relationship and for watching my back/picking up the slack, great job ebay! (maybe you should have more faith in ebay)

I AGREE 100%.  For some reason the advice given here is always to return for refund.   If they distrust ebay so much than why still sell here.    I have been here 20 years and now that I just retired I will head back out to the flea market.  Now that is my last post on this ill-informed Community.

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

Italy is very particular about what they will allow into the country.

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

There is no reference to its capacity at all, not in cups, ounces or anything else. 

 

Then why did the buyer buy it?  The new SNAD:  Not as imagined

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System


@ittybitnot wrote:

There is no reference to its capacity at all, not in cups, ounces or anything else. 

 

Then why did the buyer buy it?  The new SNAD:  Not as imagined


Very true. In the absence of details, the buyer will use his imagination, and some buyers can be... really imaginative. Smiley Frustrated 

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

People return things for all kinds of reasons. Some are actually addicted to buying and returning stuff, they call them seriel returners. Some buy stuff wear it use it and return it. Look at the long lines at Walmart with all the stuff piled up behind the counter.  Walmart, and a lot of big stores now keep records of returners and at some point say, '"sorry, no more return priveleges". 

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

You say: " In my opinion do not fight the return.  Simply send them a return label and refund when the item comes back then fight the return through the proper e-bay channels. "

 

My question is just what those channels would be.  Once the buyer gets what they want and I am out money, the case is closed.  As I understand it, and I could be wrong, ebay will not look at it as I accepted the buyers SNAD claim. 

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

Agree as to the size of their cups, but all in all I am selling the pot and it is to them to figure the capacity of their cups.  Most teapots are pretty standard in size, especially the English ones.  I have yet to see a teapot hold a half gallon.  Most are a quart plus maybe 4-6 oz. more.

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Re: Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

My Hubby had to return something to Wal-Mart (which he rarely ever does) and I guess they have changed what use to be a 30 day return policy down to 2 weeks.  He mentioned this because someone in line was arguing with the clerk about the time limit.

 

Says a bundle that even brick and mortar stores are shorting the return policies not this 30 day + stuff.

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