Account Restricted for Leaving Honest Feedback for Buyer Who Missused Returns

[cheyennetradingco]

We have had our account restricted for leaving honest feedback on a buyer’s page.

Buyer requested return for item not as described claiming item not sealed.  We accepted return. Received it back, sealed exactly as stated in listing, uploaded picture of sealed item to return request. Issued refund of cost minus shipping through PayPal.  Ebay overrode our decision, taking money from our PayPal account to refund buyer in full. Buyer sent multiple abusive emails calling us a crook for not offering full refund. Buyer threatened negative feedback in messages and did actually leave negative feedback. We left honest feedback for buyer summarizing the bad experience we had with buyer misusing returns. Ebay restricted account because we were honest in our feedback about the buyer. 

Ebay gives option to leave feedback for buyer after transaction yet filters it so we can only leave positive.  Sellers get penalized with restrictions it we are honest.   Ebay is deciding more of these cases in favor of the buyer leaving sellers to pay the cost in return shipping fees and reputation. Buyers know they can abuse the policies and when confronted Ebay does nothing because they consider sellers as their “employees” instead of the entrepreneurial business people we truly are and consider our customers as their buyers not the consumers who desire our products at our prices. Thinking of moving $36,000 of listings to new platform totaling $80,000 in yearly sales.  Any suggestions?

[castlemagicmemories]

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@escuintla wrote:

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@kitschy*loot wrote:

I don't understand why some sellers seem puzzled when they only see an option to leave a buyer a positive feedback. Even if I didn't understand why, my common sense would kick in and tell me that eBay doesn't want sellers to leave a negative or a neutral or they would offer three choices. For some sellers, their common sense tells them that eBay wants them to leave a negative comment under a positive heading. That's odd.

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But, the weird or unjust thing is to allow a buyer who left a positive feedback to make a return. 

I believe there should be a period of "cooling off" between receiving an item and leaving a negative feedback so both buyers and sellers work on any problem.

Receving a negative feedback when the seller doesn't know what the shell is going on is unjust to me. 

I understand what you are saying but I also understand why a buyer might just leave the neg and move on.  They may have contacted a seller before with, shall we say, disasterous results, so they are reluctant to go through that again.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:
Sorry this happened to you. It's no consolation but this happens to buyers, too. Both the experience and having their feedback removed. That doesn't make it right for either side. I understand your feelings~it's sad that it happens to either buyers or sellers. I doubt it is confined to Ebay, the internet is a big place and issues can be anywhere. Your call as to whether you move elsewhere, of course, it is always sad to see a seller leave, but you need to do what you need to do.

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That's a bit misleading.  You certainly are correct that a buyer can have their negative FB left for a seller removed, but that is for cause.  Something they said or did was in breach of a policy.  And buyers are NOT sanctioned for the mere fact a neg FB is removed, they would have had to do something else against the rules.

It isn't fair to compare the two as they really have nothing in common.  When a buyer gets a negative removed by Ebay from a seller they have posted it against, not a darn thing happens by way of sanctions against the buyer.

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Mam,  while you may think a buyer's feedback is removed for just cause, something in breach of a policy, I can most emphatically assure you that that may not be the case in many of these instances.  I have had it happen myself when I absolutely knew I violated nothing in posting it.  And there are no sanctions against the buyer, as well there shouldn't be, as the buyer did nothing wrong and the neg was an honest neg.  So there is no reason for any darn thing to happen to the buyer.  It's bad enough they add insult to injury by removing a neg that absolutely should be there.  I rarely leave a neg, you have to really earn a neg from me, but when I leave one, it is absolutely true and justified.  To see one of those removed for no reason is beyond upsetting.

It seems you either don't buy much or you don't spend time on the Buying Board as this is a perennial complaint and it drives buyers from Ebay.  Seriously.

If I had a penny for every thread I read that said feedback was removed that violated no policy, I would be Warren Buffett.  

And the advice often offered on this Board is to call incessantly until you get a rep who will remove the neg, and no, it is not offered only when the neg has a justifiable reason to be removed.  It's any neg.  And some sellers have that service performed automatically, as in scrubbing their account.  

[castlemagicmemories]

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@emerald_door wrote:

I'm sorry that happened.  It seems that many of us get hit by the occasional dishonest buyer who will say anything to avoid paying return shipping.  Unfortunately, the feedback forum is not a level playing field. 

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No, it's not when sellers can call and just get the neg removed, whether or not it violates policy.

[castlemagicmemories]

Any suggestions?

The grass isn't always greener on the other side.  Your call, of course.

I would suggest following Ebay policy because there aren't but a couple

more steps before the whole question of whether you should move things elsewhere will become a moot point.

[lrtfw]

Exactly, Sellers are paying the ungodly fee's to put up with the whinner's trying to get a 20 kickback for **bleep**ing

[castlemagicmemories]

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@cheyennetradingco wrote:

Then why offer feedback as an option at all for sellers if it is controlled to be only positive?  There is a blank line asking for 80 characters of comment!!  Ebay should put a notice under that blank line saying “We will restrict your account if you are honest about your negative experiences!”  Not offer a blank space, inviting sellers to fill it in with an opinion only to be told no you can’t have that opinion. Sellers should be allowed to inform the feedback forum with honest evaluations of buyers just the same as buyers do for sellers. Pointless to have a democratic forum while being told there is only one way to vote!!!

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There is another choice for feedback, you don't have to leave a positive.  You can choose to leave no feedback at all. 

As for the warning, Ebay expects you to know that you can't leave a negative since there is no option to leave a negative.  So no need for a warning.  And if this is violated once, then you know that you can't do that again.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@cheyennetradingco wrote:

Not taking it personally.  Just asking for a better system and trying to find solutions or suggestions that work for everyone. Eating the cost of buyers remorse does not fill my kids stomachs. If you just want to quote the rules dont bother.  Rules are meant to be tweaked refined and rewritten to work for everyone. And as they are, the seller sucks it up line doesn’t work for us!!  Fresh ideas welcomed.   You are losing me on the party line.  If anyone wants to innovate please come aboard. 

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There really isn't anything to innovate; you don't make policy, Ebay does.  And the no negs rule has been in place since 2008 as sellers were posting false, retaliatory negs on buyers and it was driving them from the site.  I know you don't like this policy, but it is what it is, and you are putting your selling privileges in jeopardy by continuing to flout ebay policy.

[castlemagicmemories]

At one point Ebay instituted mutual withdrawals and even the board posters suggested sellers post retaliatory negs to blackmail buyers into removing negs that were deserved.

I remember that.  Now they can just call incessantly until someone breaks down and removes the neg, which is advised on this Board~not always when there is a justifiable reason for the neg to be removed.  

[castlemagicmemories]

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@ten_o_nine wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@cheyennetradingco wrote:

Then why offer feedback as an option at all for sellers if it is controlled to be only positive?  There is a blank line asking for 80 characters of comment!!  Ebay should put a notice under that blank line saying “We will restrict your account if you are honest about your negative experiences!”  Not offer a blank space, inviting sellers to fill it in with an opinion only to be told no you can’t have that opinion. Sellers should be allowed to inform the feedback forum with honest evaluations of buyers just the same as buyers do for sellers. Pointless to have a democratic forum while being told there is only one way to vote!!!

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There are very few blank spaces in life where you can say whatever comes to mind without some consequences to it.  

Well part of the problem is thinking that this is a "democratic forum".  There is NOTHING that says that or offers that.  Ebay is a company that has the right to set the rules for those using their site within the laws of the US.  I don't know of any actual company that is ran democratically.  There is a chain of command, rules and procedures set my those with the authority to do so within the company.  It isn't rules set by popular vote.  We don't vote in the leaders of Ebay.

As for offering up what you feel is "honest feedback" for the buyer.  There are a couple things to remember.  These are BUSINESS transactions NOT personal ones.  Are you aware of ANY company or site out there that posts a public comment or shaming of their customers.  Of course not as it is not a good BUSINESS practice to have.

I know it can be annoying.  I know that some buyers do not behave responsibly or reasonably and that can really cause issues for a seller.  But this again is a BUSINESS, not a personal transaction, so don't take it personally and things will be easier on you.

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So, the buyer can leave personal attacks against a business?

Think of it this way "Does Macy's allow buyers to post negative comments on their site?"

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It's in the eyes of the beholder.  To the seller, it's a personal attack against a business.  However, to the buyer, it may represent a factual account of how the transaction transpired.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@tealt wrote:

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@cheyennetradingco wrote:

Then why offer feedback as an option at all for sellers if it is controlled to be only positive?  There is a blank line asking for 80 characters of comment!!  Ebay should put a notice under that blank line saying “We will restrict your account if you are honest about your negative experiences!”  Not offer a blank space, inviting sellers to fill it in with an opinion only to be told no you can’t have that opinion. Sellers should be allowed to inform the feedback forum with honest evaluations of buyers just the same as buyers do for sellers. Pointless to have a democratic forum while being told there is only one way to vote!!!

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I rather like that idea, although not with those words.

"No negative comments allowed in feedback to buyers" has been eBay's policy for years.  Why not just say so up front, where it will do the most good?

The OP is not a new seller, but showing the policy next to the feedback text box might save brand new sellers from coming to grief.

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They probably feel that being there is no option to leave negative feedback it is unnecessary to display a warning, thus not needed.  Kind of self explanatory as it were.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@kitschy*loot wrote:

I don't understand why some sellers seem puzzled when they only see an option to leave a buyer a positive feedback. Even if I didn't understand why, my common sense would kick in and tell me that eBay doesn't want sellers to leave a negative or a neutral or they would offer three choices. For some sellers, their common sense tells them that eBay wants them to leave a negative comment under a positive heading. That's odd.

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Exactly.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@muttlymob wrote:

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@coolections wrote:

Are you sure the restriction is for leaving bad feedback ?

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This isn't the OP's first go-round.  There are at least 3 comments removed in the past 6 months.   And a bunch more neg-positives for buyers that weren't removed, if those buyers knew/wanted to report the results would be even worse.

Based on that and the feedback left for sellers, this is a prime case of Karma bites, and the dangers of buying and selling on the same ID.

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Sadly, that is why there was a suspension this time.  Prior offenses, but persistent in the same behavior~not the first time this has happened as others have been equally defiant, until the point where the suspension is permanent.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:
Sorry this happened to you. It's no consolation but this happens to buyers, too. Both the experience and having their feedback removed. That doesn't make it right for either side. I understand your feelings~it's sad that it happens to either buyers or sellers. I doubt it is confined to Ebay, the internet is a big place and issues can be anywhere. Your call as to whether you move elsewhere, of course, it is always sad to see a seller leave, but you need to do what you need to do.

---

That's a bit misleading.  You certainly are correct that a buyer can have their negative FB left for a seller removed, but that is for cause.  Something they said or did was in breach of a policy.  And buyers are NOT sanctioned for the mere fact a neg FB is removed, they would have had to do something else against the rules.

It isn't fair to compare the two as they really have nothing in common.  When a buyer gets a negative removed by Ebay from a seller they have posted it against, not a darn thing happens by way of sanctions against the buyer.

---

Mam,  while you may think a buyer's feedback is removed for just cause, something in breach of a policy, I can most emphatically assure you that that may not be the case in many of these instances.  I have had it happen myself when I absolutely knew I violated nothing in posting it.  And there are no sanctions against the buyer, as well there shouldn't be, as the buyer did nothing wrong and the neg was an honest neg.  So there is no reason for any darn thing to happen to the buyer.  It's bad enough they add insult to injury by removing a neg that absolutely should be there.  I rarely leave a neg, you have to really earn a neg from me, but when I leave one, it is absolutely true and justified.  To see one of those removed for no reason is beyond upsetting.

It seems you either don't buy much or you don't spend time on the Buying Board as this is a perennial complaint and it drives buyers from Ebay.  Seriously.  If I had a penny for every thread I read that said feedback was removed that violated no policy, I would be Warren Buffett.  

And the advice often offered on this Board is to call incessantly until you get a rep who will remove the neg, and no, it is not offered only when the neg has a justifiable reason to be removed.  It's any neg.  And some sellers have that service performed automatically, as in scrubbing their account.  

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@mam98031

Just want to add that a recent thread on the Buying Board is by an OP who states, as many do, that they called CS to find out why their neg was removed and to get it reinstated, which of course they won't/can't do.  The buyer was told that the reason the feedback was removed was because "the seller was a high volume seller".  The buyer was livid.  

[escuintla]

Just want to add that a recent thread on the Buying Board is by an OP who states, as many do, that they called CS to find out why their neg was removed and to get it reinstated, which of course they won't/can't do.  The buyer was told that the reason the feedback was removed was because "the seller was a high volume seller".  The buyer was livid. 

So, by that account, this removal is an insult to those small sellers whom by any rush to arms from their buyers are geither suspended, their items are not visible, whatever they get. 

Somebody is lying to us, somebody is throwing us under the bus because we are small fish. 

I get it! Same thing as politicians do with big donors. 

[slati_2013]

You can't leave positive negative feedback. If you were allowed to get away with it, everyone else would start doing it. I learnt a long time ago not to take any returns personally, I do a full refund. Yes, as others have already told you, it is the cost of doing business.

The one sure way of angering a buyer is not giving them a full refund. I have actually had two buyers this year who admitted it was buyers remorse or they simply bought the wrong item and shipped back to me at their expense. In each case I gave them a full refund. You get angry, they get angry and it gets very ugly.