2nd case opened on one item.

[shopkiger2]

A buyer contacted me about receiving an empty package and opened a case for a refund. The buyer sent photos which showed the item was ripped open and was empty. I contacted ebay about it and they closed the case in my favor since tracking confirmed that the item was delivered.

Now the buyer has opened a return request claiming the item is "defective or not working".  Now what happens since ebay did close the case in my favor?

[greg5000]

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@this*old*attic wrote:

Like I said, and we wonder why Ebay has a crummy rep and buyers are leaving.

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The reason I stopped buying here in 2019 is 100% due to eBay. 

I had many great transactions with sellers over the years and a few bad ones, which I was almost always able to resolve directly with the sellers.

My concern here is more process related than knowing for sure what happened.  I'm most concerned with the second case the buyer opened, stating a false reason for requesting a refund (i.e. item defective or not working).

The first place to file a case should have been with the mail/package carrier.

[greg5000]

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@this*old*attic wrote:

Um.... you contract the carrier. That’s why there’s insurance. Even they don’t take responsibility unless it’s insured. LOL. It absolutely is your responsibility until it arrives safely on the customer’s doorstep.

And we wonder why buyers are leaving.....

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A package can arrive safely at a doorstep and if that doorstep is outside or in a hallway of a building, then theft is always possible.  The OP also provided photos which show a very odd torn package.  If the item was stolen, why wouldn't the thief just take the whole package?

And to show just how bad it can get, earlier this year a package was delivered for me with jewelry in it and the name of the eBay Seller had Jewelry in it (which was on the package label).  My buildings security camera and USPS timestamp log showed the package going into the security office.  I arrived home a few hours later and it wasn't there.  The only person who had possession of it was the security guard (who is no longer working for us).

Ultimately the carrier is responsible to make sure that the package is delivered to the buyer.  Leaving it on a doorstep, hallway, or with a 3rd party isn't a clean delivery, and can be challenged if you have to file a case with USPS or another carrier.

@shopkiger2 

[mam98031]

I too have received empty packages through USPS.  But each and every time that has happened over the years, it has been bagged and tagged so to speak.  There were notes and stickers on the package that were put there by USPS.  

Just my opinion, but I think it is unlikely that the buyer received the package in the condition it was in when they sent you pics.  USPS would have noticed that and would have tagged the package.  There would be no way for the carrier that actually delivered that package not to notice the damage.  And that carrier isn't going to want to risk being blamed for it, so it is highly likely they would have tagged it as damaged.  Just my experience for what it is worth.

I'm not sure that your buyer is being on the up and up.  Them not wanting to communicate with you is another flag to me.  If it really arrived in that condition, one would reasonably thing you would need to communicate to work out the problem.

I am however concerned that the CSR told you to do nothing and let Ebay do some fact finding.  We've seen lots of threads with that kind of stuff being told a seller and it has rarely worked out for the seller.  I would suggest staying on top of this and calling first thing tomorrow morning to get an update.  I really wouldn't wait or you could end up losing that $30 when it just doesn't seem like you should.  And if they do force the refund, you get a defect on your account too.

I hope this works out for you.

[this*old*attic]

They aren’t the person who bought the service - seller needs to file.

[shopkiger]

I do plan on keeping in touch with ebay over the next couple days.

[fern*wood]

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@greg5000 wrote:

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@fern*wood wrote:

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@greg5000 wrote:

Since many of these types of issues end up going against the seller (even when you have assurance from Customer Support), I would request a written response confirming what you were told.

In my opinion, this buyer should not be allowed to be a member of eBay.  They should be removed from the site, to protect other sellers and improve the Trust & Safety of eBay.

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Since you claim ebay treats sellers harshly, how it that treatment fair to buyers?  You, nor anyone else posting here knows whether the buyer is telling the truth or not, and yet you convict them and want them banned!  

Oh, how you would complain if you received an empty package and received this treatment.  Trust and safety is a two way street.

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Clearly the buyer was not telling the truth on the second case, as they originally indicated the package was received empty and torn open.  If they didn't file the second case, for "item defective or not working," then I would not have made the statement I did (which I stand by). 

If I had received a torn open empty package (which I never did in hundreds of transactions), I would have let the seller know and reported this to USPS (or the package carrier used) and filed a claim with them (together with the seller). 

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If a buyer truly receives an empty package, the correct case to file is not as described.  So the wrong case was filed to begin with, which is why a second one does make sense in this situation.  It is intuitive to file INR, but anyone that knows how the system works knows that tracking is the only requirement to win that.  It would not address the lack of contents, nor prove dishonesty to then open the correct case.

I have no idea if the buyer in this post is honest or not, but I'm trying to explain why this sequence of events isn't proof, since it can happen. 

[*madison]

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@shopkiger2 wrote:
Well ebay representatives seem to disagree with you on this.

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ebay can't disagree with me because my posts are correct.

The buyer filed the wrong claim INR, when it should have been SNAD.

If the buyer had originally filed a SNAD, you would have already been forced to issue a refund.

Now, I don't know if ebay are going to rule in the buyers favour now for the SNAD claim, I haven't said they will, I don't even know if the buyer is lying about the empty package, my previous posts are only about the buyer filing the wrong claim..

[vintagecraze50]

OK, let’s assume that 10,000 buyers now know there is a loophole in the process where all they have to do to get a free item is to file an INR , THEN  a SNAD and voila, FREE ITEM.  I seriously think not. Can you imagine what problems would occur especially with EXPENSIVE ITEMS over this. It does not matter whether this case involved 2 dollars or 6,000. 

[vintagecraze50]

The buyer IS responsibility for having their packages delivered to a secure receptacle. This is not always the case with a lot of people. They do not have secure places to have their mail delivered. For those folks a P.O. Box would work well. For the reasons of porch theft and other problems like this use signature tracking on packages it helps a lot and reduces porch theft and receptacle problems. Sellers are not responsible when a buyer does not have a secure place for mail delivery.

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@greg5000 wrote:

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@fern*wood wrote:

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@greg5000 wrote:

Since many of these types of issues end up going against the seller (even when you have assurance from Customer Support), I would request a written response confirming what you were told.

In my opinion, this buyer should not be allowed to be a member of eBay.  They should be removed from the site, to protect other sellers and improve the Trust & Safety of eBay.

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Since you claim ebay treats sellers harshly, how it that treatment fair to buyers?  You, nor anyone else posting here knows whether the buyer is telling the truth or not, and yet you convict them and want them banned!  

Oh, how you would complain if you received an empty package and received this treatment.  Trust and safety is a two way street.

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Clearly the buyer was not telling the truth on the second case, as they originally indicated the package was received empty and torn open.  If they didn't file the second case, for "item defective or not working," then I would not have made the statement I did (which I stand by). 

If I had received a torn open empty package (which I never did in hundreds of transactions), I would have let the seller know and reported this to USPS (or the package carrier used) and filed a claim with them (together with the seller). 

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The buyer may have contacted ebay to open the second case eBay staff may have chosen that reason 

[this*old*attic]

I don’t understand the problem you are having with the ability to file two claims.

Buyer gets worried when item doesn’t arrive and files INR. Package comes along finally and contents are broken. Should they be denied the right to file a SNAD? They’re stuck with shards?

Assuming Buyer is telling the truth, all that happened is they filed the wrong report first. If you didn’t know shipping and EBay, you’d think an empty package was an INR.

Again saying buyer is honest - there’s no proof package arrived fine and was rifled on her “unsafe” porch. Many people in another thread have pointed out that their mail persons failed to put damaged stickers on their torn/empty packages. If the problem happened in transit, seller is responsible.

[elitefashions12-0]

I'd also ignore anyone who writes in CAPS to get their point across and also adds LOL, what business do you know communicates in this fashion ? LOL.

LOL, you're really sat there doing this, Social media is where you need to be with LOL.

[zktalkj_0]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

OK, let’s assume that 10,000 buyers now know there is a loophole in the process where all they have to do to get a free item is to file an INR , THEN  a SNAD and voila, FREE ITEM.  I seriously think not. Can you imagine what problems would occur especially with EXPENSIVE ITEMS over this. It does not matter whether this case involved 2 dollars or 6,000. 

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Why, it's pretty much common knowledge that buyers can file snad for any reason and ship back an empty envelope because the instant tracking shows delivery the refund must be issued.  No secret there, don't even need to go through any pretend cover-up routines, just pick any random reason.

No, I believe the buyer filed INR first out of mistaken belief that an empty package translates to Item Not Received, it is a common misconception.

[1tuna]

I cant believe this is still being talked about

I am unsure what the buyer should have done first

no matter what transpired.....package ripped.............not ripped is not relevant

a buyer is given carte blanche to do as he sees fit

it does not matter if he tells a tall tale

displays a sigh of woe

or stubbed his big toe

a buyer can change the story to accomodate any need he sees fit

ebay goes along with this willingly

a CSR will just say so what.............what am I supposed to be doing

not taking sides is the job of a CSR

outlandish tales are just that

the buyer needs to be given a chance to undo the situation

its not convenient

its costly

let the buyer have his way is the mantra of the CSR............its that simple

get used to it

extenuating circumstances are  just that

everyone feels the need to be taken seriously.........especially a buyer

what if they are telling the truth

Ex mayor of New York city was on public tv with his stats

1 out of every 20 people in NY is on SSDI

think about that for a minute............all those crooks scamming the system

the feds know it.........New Yorkers might know it.........might not even care

all those millions just being doled out to disabled workers

that sure is an awful lot of disabled adults getting a free lunch..........many feel that way

you can not take away something that benefits 1 person if it means getting rid of all the freeloaders

its a paradox.............to deny the truly needy is just wrong.......thats just the way it is

just let the buyer return the item and move on.....buyers have the option to change there minds

it does not matter how those wishes were expressed

returns are a fact of life...........so is losing your package

just take back what is returned and then deal with it

[mam98031]

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@shopkiger wrote:
I do plan on keeping in touch with ebay over the next couple days.

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That may be giving them too much time.  But your decision to make of course.