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2nd case opened on one item.

A buyer contacted me about receiving an empty package and opened a case for a refund. The buyer sent photos which showed the item was ripped open and was empty. I contacted ebay about it and they closed the case in my favor since tracking confirmed that the item was delivered.

Now the buyer has opened a return request claiming the item is "defective or not working".  Now what happens since ebay did close the case in my favor?

Message 1 of 164
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163 REPLIES 163

Re: 2nd case opened on one item.

I agree. How can an item be not as described if it wasn't received? For a buyer to be able to open both a INR case and SNAD case is just ridiculous and shouldn't be allowed. UNLESS the item was actually found and proven to in fact be not as described and was proven. But that seems like a very unlikely scenario.
Message 46 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.

I tried to ask the buyer if her package was stamped or had any missing content or damaged item sticker but of coarse I haven't gotten a single reply after 4 messages.
Message 47 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.

I spoke with ebay and they seem to be suspicious of the buyer and told me not to respond to the return request and said they wanted to speak with the buyer directly. They want her to contact her post office, USPS and possibly file a police report (which is a bit much). They said if they believe she is telling the truth they will offer a courtesy refund. If they think she is lying they will just close the case.
Message 48 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.

Nobody said packages don't arrive empty. Did I send it empty? No.
My responsibility is to make sure I send out the item the item as described, to the correct address in a timely manner. That is what I did. It is then the mail carriers responsibility to make sure that package gets where it's supposed to be. I'm not the mail carrier.
Change my tone? What?!
I have sent a total of 4 messages to the buyer that have not been responded to but yet she gets aggressive in the comments of the case and accuses me of not sealing a mailer that was clearly sealed in the photos she sent. Sounds like maybe she should change her tone.
Message 49 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.

I've been there done that. I've ordered items I never received AND had packages delivered that were never found. Not once did I contact the seller with an attitude or even contact them at all UNLESS there was no tracking.
How can a seller be responsible for making sure your package does not get stolen or damaged during delivery? We can't hand deliver these items personally. Unfortunately it's the risk of buying online.
Message 50 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.


@shopkiger2 wrote:
I've been there done that. I've ordered items I never received AND had packages delivered that were never found. Not once did I contact the seller with an attitude or even contact them at all UNLESS there was no tracking.
How can a seller be responsible for making sure your package does not get stolen or damaged during delivery? We can't hand deliver these items personally. Unfortunately it's the risk of buying online.

Ebay has the Money Back Guarantee on every listing that we must abide by.  That means either the buyer gets the item in as described condition, or they get their money back.  So that puts the burden on the seller to cover the item until it arrives.  We may not transport and deliver, but ebay holds us responsible in order to sell here.   We have the option to purchase insurance if we wish, but we are responsible.

Message 51 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.

That's not completely accurate. If the tracking information shows the item was delivered we are not responsible. This is exactly why word is spreading for buyers to open SNAD cases when the item shows delivered but was not received. Since they know they will lose if they open INR cases in those situations. That is taking advantage of ebays SNAD cases. Ebay doesn't require sellers to refund buyers if the tracking shows delivered for a reason!
Message 52 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.


@shopkiger2 wrote:
That's not completely accurate. If the tracking information shows the item was delivered we are not responsible. This is exactly why word is spreading for buyers to open SNAD cases when the item shows delivered but was not received. Since they know they will lose if they open INR cases in those situations. That is taking advantage of ebays SNAD cases. Ebay doesn't require sellers to refund buyers if the tracking shows delivered for a reason!

Sorry, I don't believe I am inaccurate.   If the item is delivered, then sure, tracking showing delivered wins an item not received case, but if the item wasn't in the package, then they needed to file an item not as described case.  That holds the seller responsible.   

 

Would you be happy to lose if you received an empty package that showed delivered?

Message 53 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.

Please tell me this whole ordeal isn't over some $10 or $20 or less item.

 

Please tell me it's worth like at least $50 or $100 or more.

 

Because I see the posts about sellers abusing buyers, he said she said, fact is we really don't know whether the buyer did in fact get an empty package but I dare say the chances are good that the buyer did in fact receive a torn open package with the contents missing.

 

And yes the buyer could be lying, but here's the thing...

 

How much time and effort has gone into this thread (and the one before) so far?

Do you believe the cost of the item is worth just that time at even minimum wage?

Not even talking about the effort, just the hours we've spent on this already, is it worth the cost of the item?

 

So hear me again when I say, I would've done issued a refund a long, long time ago.

No CS, no police reports, no IC3, no page after page bickering back-and-forth in this forum, none of it.

Right or wrong I just don't care, no FBI, no cameras at the post office, not even going to tell my neighbors.

Refund and done.

 

Because sometimes it really is just the easiest way to get it done.

 

Message 54 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.

I'm pretty sure I already said that I have received an empty package before. I didn't even contact the seller. I don't want the seller to be responsible if something happened that is out of their control. The thought of holding them responsible never even crossed my mind. Instead, I came to the conclusion that someone obviously stole my mail and I contacted USPS and my post office.

I wasn't talking about an empty package. I was talking about a buyer claiming they never received the item and opening an INR case. Ebay will close the case in the sellers favor if the tracking information shows the item was delivered to the buyer.

As far as an empty package, this is the first time I've dealt with this kind of situation as a seller. All the reps I spoke with have told me not to do anything or even respond to the return request. Sure, she may still get a courtesy refund but the reps already informed me that she will have to cooperate by contacting ebay, contacting USPS and possibly file a police report in order to prove her case. So no, they will not always automatically win a SNAD case. I know everyone says SNAD cases are always a win for the buyer but I have won several. Just a few examples:
Buyer opened a SNAD case cause the item wasn't as bright orange as she wanted - closed in my favor.
Buyer opened a SNAD case cause the sleeves were too tight on her - closed in my favor.
Buyer opened a SNAD case cause she thought the item was 100% silk - closed in my favor.
Buyers do not always win SNAD cases.
Message 55 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.


@zktalkj_0 wrote:

Please tell me this whole ordeal isn't over some $10 or $20 or less item.

 

Please tell me it's worth like at least $50 or $100 or more.

 

Because I see the posts about sellers abusing buyers, he said she said, fact is we really don't know whether the buyer did in fact get an empty package but I dare say the chances are good that the buyer did in fact receive a torn open package with the contents missing.

 

And yes the buyer could be lying, but here's the thing...

 

How much time and effort has gone into this thread (and the one before) so far?

Do you believe the cost of the item is worth just that time at even minimum wage?

Not even talking about the effort, just the hours we've spent on this already, is it worth the cost of the item?

 

So hear me again when I say, I would've done issued a refund a long, long time ago.

No CS, no police reports, no IC3, no page after page bickering back-and-forth in this forum, none of it.

Right or wrong I just don't care, no FBI, no cameras at the post office, not even going to tell my neighbors.

Refund and done.

 

Because sometimes it really is just the easiest way to get it done.

 


With this buyer never responding the seller's original messages points to the buyer as being suspect.

One of the deals with these cases is if this buyer is gaming the system,  they need to be on eBay' s radar.  EBay will not do these courtesy refunds continuously.  If these buyers get continuous refunds from sellers, they just go from one seller to the next.

Message 56 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.

my reply about not getting what you want from a CSR was for the OP

I will not bother calling a CSR unless I know they can help me

I know all the keywords that are used for deflection such as this phrase

thats a 3rd party app....................we have no control over it

we dont have the tools to do that............that would be correct...........sort of

a regular CSR can only go so far..............

you need the ones with superpowers..........that woud be

the special opps team...........i just made that one up..........

its actually called the "special apps team"

I like to think that the term special opps has more of an appeal

 

there really is such a program.........

they have been very helpful to me.............

put that problem is your rearview mirror

the object is too look ahead


Germantown proud Germantown strong
up the whiskey hickon
moving right along
19144
Message 57 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.


@shopkiger2 wrote:
Nobody said packages don't arrive empty. Did I send it empty? No.
My responsibility is to make sure I send out the item the item as described, to the correct address in a timely manner. That is what I did. It is then the mail carriers responsibility to make sure that package gets where it's supposed to be. I'm not the mail carrier.


No.  Your responsibility per eBay (and likely your payment processor) policy is that the buyer RECEIVE the item as described.  Merely sending something does not fulfill your obligations as a seller.

 

You are not the carrier, but you choose the carrier.  You package the item.  Ultimately it is your actions that can increase or decrease the likelihood of the carrier you choose safely delivering the package.

 

Have you ever read the eBay Money Back Guarantee?  If not, now is a good time.  You need a refresher on what your selling responsibilities are.

Message 58 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.


@shopkiger2 wrote:
I agree. How can an item be not as described if it wasn't received? For a buyer to be able to open both a INR case and SNAD case is just ridiculous and shouldn't be allowed. UNLESS the item was actually found and proven to in fact be not as described and was proven. But that seems like a very unlikely scenario.

Did the buyer pay for an empty envelope?  Nope.  The buyer bought what was supposed to be in the envelope.  Thus, if the buyer receives an empty envelope instead of what was supposed to be in it, the package is Not As Described.

 

Are  you seriously trying to weasel out of the responsibility for the buyer actually receiving what she paid for, by claiming that since the item is missing it can't be determined if it is not as described?  Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

 

This is not a risk of buying on eBay.  Buyers don't take the risk, sellers do.  Per eBay policy.  It is in the best interest of every seller to read the applicable policies, understand them, and decide if they want to accept that risk and continue selling.

 

 

Message 59 of 164
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Re: 2nd case opened on one item.

Still singing that song? Of course it’s logical. If you got worried about a late package and filed INR, how would you feel if it subsequently arrived broken and you were told “too bad, so sad?”

Message 60 of 164
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