2 hours on phone with ebay, learned a new thing you did not know.

[chucktheprinter]

ok a problem with a buyer is what this is , package DELIVERED 4 pm march 18th, heres what buyer says.

BUYER

Hello, I’ve received an email saying this item was delivered today. I don’t know where it was delivered but it was not at my address. I’ve looked in every possible place it could have been left with no result. I have a 8 1/2 x 11 clearly posted sign to not leave packages on the porch, but drop over adjacent fence if not home because of theft problems. All I know is there is no package. Please advise.

SELLER

The postman is required to scan the barcode as they deliver the package, this would be a question for your postman as I have no control over the post office. The box was small 2 x 2 x 4 the postman should remember it. wish I could help more. if the tracking went dead I would refund or replace the item. Tracking says delivered, thats a differant story. If you have theft problems that might be the answer.

BUYER

Are you suggesting that it’s not your problem? I’ll file a claim with the post master and check with EBay for my options. All I know is I don’t have my order and you chose the shipping method. As the shipper you’re the only person who has recourse with the post office not the recipient/buyer. I’ve no idea what method you shipped with USPS but there should be some insurance you can claim and reship. You’re not being very helpful.

SELLER

I am saying that if the tracking did not say delivered and time passes, I would promptly refund or replace, No need to hold this on me as the tracking clearly shows I did my part, You are admitting to a theft problem to the point the postman has to put packages over fence. ASK the postman about the package he clearly scanned it when it was delivered. If it was a theft its a POSTAL matter ( not a ebay seller problem.) Tracking again clearly shows I did my part. Buyers are more then welcome to request insurance at the cost of the buyer if they want it. You can file a ebay claim on this item I do not mind at all. I have 19 years of very happy customers. I have done nothing wrong on this order.

BUYER

The EBay claim is filed. With your 19 years of experience you should know that you “the shipper” is the only person who has recourse with USPS and EBay will hold you responsible for making a claim not myself “the buyer”. I’ve no idea where your item was delivered but it wasn’t with me. From here on it’s between yourself, the USPS and EBay to sort this out. I simply want “what you were paid for” delivered to me. FYI, I’m currently not a happy buyer, hoping EBay is able to properly instruct you.

SELLER

WOW you are jumpy, you did not even take the easy advice of asking the postman before jumping on me, yes ebay will instruct me and will be on my side. You are blaming a seller when tracking shows I did my part. Im sure your feedback will be just as unfair.

OK yes my last comment was not nice , oh gosh so hard to say anything from here. 

ok package delivered 4pm march 18th, I guess over his fence hehe, oh grrrrr

ok wait SELLERS for this part..

eBay opened a case because of an issue with an item purchased from you. We reviewed the case and have decided to issue the buyer a refund of $13.50 without any impact to you.

This case is now closed. You are not required to reimburse the buyer or eBay, and this case will not be counted in your seller performance evaluation.

ok hmmmm tracking says delivered and buyer gets a refund LESS then 24 hours after that??????? WHAT

2 hours on phone with ebay, 4 supervisers after that and i am told this is a ONE time  refund for buyers.

ok so I ask if I can now tell my future customers about the ONE time refund that is INSTANT for a case like this, they say yes.... oddly  no one I talked to at ebay was speaking clear english,  talked to 5 or 6 people, i kept asking to speak to their supervisor to understand the super fast refund , all had the same voice as Kunal Nayyar on the big bang theory.  oh good grief I just wanted a answer of  why my customer got such a fast refund.    yes I asked the last person for a number to for this call which was  1-00-3672917367   and that call was recorded. 

[bigdeals.etc]

This happens to me tons of times every month. And I'm proud to say about 99% of the time I'm able to not rile up the buyer. I've gotten both polite and rude/upset buyers. I've been able to calm both types down or at least not have the buyer upset at me, but rather at the situation. How do I do it? I sympathize with the buyer and give suggestions to locate. Then I throw USPS under the bus. Then I ultimately offer to sell a replacement at my cost, zero profit (of course there's still a small profit). So at least the buyer can have a choice to get something, and I make another sale. I tell them that eBay tells me I don't have to help because they'll protect me, but I disagree with eBay and would still like to offer something. You obviously can't do this if you have a unique item.

About less than a quarter end up buying the replacement. Some file INRs and lose. Only a small percentage get paid off by eBay as the OP mentioned. But none of them end up mad at me. Most appreciate the customer service, but still hate the situation. I always end up telling them that I hate it too, all USPS' fault.

So to recap. Sympathize with the buyer and convince them you're a victim too and show them you are here to help. Throw ebay and USPS under the bus (we know they've thrown us under many times). Offer a compromise that doesn't make you lose money.

[bigdeals.etc]

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@juststuffisell wrote:
I'm not going to beat you up like some responses. We are human, and we are all different. The most important thing is that you learn from this how best to handle a situation where the buyer claims they did not receive their package.

Heck, I had one last year that was signed for and they claimed not received. Like you, I consider it not my problem. If your building has a designated place where packages are delivered and signed for, where I am concerned the problem you have is with your building employees, not with me or USPS. People won't like hearing that either, but it is the truth.

Buyers need to start taking responsibility for their role in the transaction as the buyer - provide a secure and safe place for your package to be delivered and if it is not your home - because no one is home to receive them, ship them to your place of employment kind of thing where someone can't just walk up to your door and walk off with your merchandise - at the sellers expense. Sorry, that is not the problem of the seller. That is really your problem as a buyer, whether you like it or not.

Cheers

---

Yea it's weird. I'd had this exact thing happen to me 2-3 times. The buyer is in a large 500 unit community with an internal mail service... and THEY are the ones who messed up. The buyers admitted to that, yet still expect the seller to fix it for them.

That's just a step away from saying something like "My dad lives with me and he ALWAYS accidentally throws my packages away. I know he did it again, so you need to send me another item." Hahaha.

[futurespast1113]

Your buyer may not be lying. Once I purchased something from Ebay and when I checked the tracking it said "delivered". I was home all day and never received that package. I called my local post office and the postmaster checked the GPS tracking of the delivery. They can actually see where our packages were delivered within 5 feet from the house or business our packages were delivered and scanned at.

Sure enough, the substitute mail carrier delivered my package to the wrong address a block away. The postmaster asked him to go back to the house that it was misdelivered to and retrieve it. The scuzzy residents that got it, played dumb and said they never received my package. The postmaster said there was nothing they could do about it as it was human error and did not offer to reimburse me for the mistake.

I contacted my ebay seller who was very kind and bent over backwards to provide excellent customer service. She refunded me in full and then filed a claim with USPS for the misdelivered package. I don't know if she was ever reimbursed, but I ended up buying more things from her as she was the type of seller I felt appreciative of. Maybe the same thing happened to your buyer. All you had to do is call up the postmaster in her town to get to the bottom of this, ask for the GPS location info it was delivered to and offer good customer service to someone that did business with you. Not every buyer is a scam artist looking to screw you over.

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@calntom wrote:

Also for future reference, once the package is scanned as delivered, nobody is filing a claim for missing or non-delivered package. The carrier will flat out deny that claim. 

Buyer is responsible for providing a safe delivery location and tracking down their package once scanned as delivered. 

---

As another poster mentioned this is basically incorrect.  They will pay out with signed affidavit 

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@fashunu4eeuh wrote:

Ebay has a relatively new rule about shipping insurance. A seller cannot charge extra for it. It can be folded into the price, but that cannot be stated as an additional charge. 

Shipping insurance is for the seller and it is the seller who must pursue the claim with the carrier, not the buyer. Buyers have the Money Back Guarantee to protect their interests. Sellers have insurance. Your buyer was surprised by this mistaken notion regarding the insurance claim, and said so, which confused the matter more.

There is a way to let a buyer down gently when an item is lost but scanned as delivered. Handling upset buyers is part of the deal, and you already know your final remarks were unprofessional and did nothing to defuse the situation.

Why do you resent the buyer getting a refund from eBay? Our purpose here is not about being right, it is about making the sale and satisfying the customer, even if they are being difficult, as yours most definitely was. Sorry this happened. 

(PS—Not advocating one should mollify a buyer at any expense. Sometimes it is not possible to make an upset buyer happy again.)

---

While all this is true.  If a buyer requested insurance a seller can charge additional for it 

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

I can't believe all the anti-buyer attitude on this thread. Buyers are NOT entitled when they want the item they paid for. USPS knows packages go missing and that is why they will pay out on missing item claims even when there is DC. 

Buyers usually don't have as much knowledge about shipping so it is helpful for the seller to give them advice and a little handholding when things go wrong.

When sellers here complain about why there are no good buyers on Ebay we should just point them to this thread.

[treasure.hunter.d]

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@calntom wrote:

Also for future reference, once the package is scanned as delivered, nobody is filing a claim for missing or non-delivered package. The carrier will flat out deny that claim. 

Buyer is responsible for providing a safe delivery location and tracking down their package once scanned as delivered. 

---

Exactly.

You can put up all of the signs you want but firstly, the post is 100% not obligated to pay any attention to them and 2nd, if you have a theft problem then you need to have a "no safe drop" order placed on your packages. That way if there is an attempted delivery of a package, no one there to receive it, or it won't fit in a mailbox or specifically designated (by the post not you) mail drop receptacle, the package will not be left and will instead be taken back to the local PO and a door knocker left telling you to go pick it up. These are the only options aside from having the post hold all packages for pick-up. Anything else and the buyer is on the hook for not taking the correct precautions to protect their mail deliveries.

To the OP: You did all you could in this case. The buyer was being a moron. Admitting to having a theft problem, then obviously not having taking any acceptable precautions to mitigate that, and they still attempt to blame you, that's a farce. If they were as knowledgeable as they claim to be about the postal process then they would know that once that delivery scan happens no one is filing any claim for non receipt, not the shipper, not the receiver, not anyone!

Some of us dinosaurs I suppose get hung up on this little thing called Principle. Whether it's $3 or $3000, whats right is right and every time someone forgets this and just rolls over on a scammer, or unreasonable customer's demands, it just makes it harder for everyone else. Indeed maintain your composure and be polite, both of which the OP did in this case, but by no means just roll over and show your belly.

[2015mhfashions]

If i'm expecting mail and it goes awol i contact the PO, no idea why buyers firstly contact sellers, for what ? ask your neighbors, anyone else living in the house, contact PO, nothing a seller can do about your mail, claiming for a scanned delivery, not happening, you and only you are responsible for a safe place to receive your mail, PO will have the details of your scanned delivery, simply contact them.

[tracdea1]

The buyer will not be able to use this offer from ebay again, and ebay does flag these types of members. Luckily, your item was low cost. Some buyers are keen enough to pull this trick on higher priced items. Ebay covered a $200+ INR case like this for me once. No negative action to my account, but it was the point that the buyer plainly lied and ebay gave in to them, allowing that buyer to believe that the activity of misusing MBG and lying is perfectly okay by ebay.

[sharingtheland]

and you did little to make your buyer glad he went on eBay and bought from you.

I'd say that buyer is very glad s/he went on ebay and bought something because s/he just got it for free.

jmo, but OP's initial response seems fine and even empathetic..."wish I could help..."  The ensuing back and forths weren't necessary but sometimes we get all riled up.  

When I read the first thread about this situation, I immediately thought the buyer knew what s/he was doing (even sounds like a seller) and is no stranger to this type of scam situation.   Buyer even knew to open a SNAD to get that refund.

When someone puts in writing that theft is a major problem with package deliveries, how in the world is that the seller's problem?

I won't refund or replace for any item that shows delivered.  I'll send the obligatory "check with carrier/post office/neighbors" response but that's about it.   

Signed, 

Getting Mean In My Old Age