mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@reidgreetings5 wrote:Thanks for the reply, @mam98031 .
I wasn't implying that MP was any better/worse than PP. It simply seems wrong to charge fees on state sales tax. IOW I'm already being penalized by the state. Now eBay compounds that penalty. 😞
Thanks again.
Sorry that makes very little sense to me since you dealt with it in PayPal too, but somehow now that it is Ebay it is some huge deal. I do not understand why it wasn't a problem in PP too.
@reidgreetings5 wrote:No. I said it right here:
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I wasn't implying that MP was any better/worse than PP.
"
What bothers me. Is that the Final Value Fee considers State Taxes a Value, and bases their fees on the value of the item AND the Tax combined. NOT the actual value of the item itself.
IOW I sell a car for $500 dollars. The State bases their Final Value Fee on $500, and taxes THAT value. eBay bases their Final Value Fee of the $500 car AFTER it's been taxed.
See the difference? This has nothing to do with MP vs PP. It's the way in which Final Value Fees are calculated.
I completely understand the process. I've been in MP for awhile now. You are on the outside looking in and making some assumptions that simply are misleading and some simply not true. And you are trying to argue these points with someone that is in MP and knows first hand how fees are applied.
YES MP does charge their FVF on the ENTIRE amount that a buyer pays. They do not reduce the payment by anything, they charge the fee on the ENTIRE payment. I hope we are clear on this now.
YES PP charges their fees on the ENTIRE amount the buyer pays. They do NOT reduce the payment by anything, they charge their fees on the ENTIRE payment no matter what the break down of that payment is.
As I have TRIED to explain to you a few times, but clearly I have failed, not all transactions / sales on Ebay are subject to sales tax. So YES fees are a little more on a sale that has sales tax on it, but it is LESS for sales that do not have sales tax on them. And they are less for sales with sales tax below 6%.
You are STUCK on looking at a sale that is above 6% sales tax and trying to make it seem that it is going to be more expensive for sellers in MP due to the fees they charge and it simply is an extremely inaccurate statement. Certainly true if you ONLY have transactions with buyers that have above a 6% sales tax in their location. But that is highly unlikely for any seller to get ONLY that type of sale.
If you want an inaccurate piece of information, then continue with your assessment, that is your right. However if you want to know the ACTUAL impact of MP fees on you as a seller, you need to widen your vision / view and consider more transactions.
I did a comparison for 6 months. I compared my fees BEFORE MP against my Fees IN MP. Each and every month I saved a little money in MP. Not a great deal as it was consistently about .50%, but a savings nonetheless. It was NOT an increase. So I frequently tell members that they are likely to see a neutral change in their monthly MP fees verses what they paid before entering MP.
The fees in MP have NOT increased overall fees. The following numbers represent those that do not have a store and the fee rate for most common categories [not all].
Fees BEFORE going into MP
10.20% FVF + 2.9% PP fees = 13.10% plus 30 cent per transaction fee.
In MP the fees are:
10.20% FVF + 2.35% money processing fee paid to MP = 12.55% plus a 30 cent per transaction fee.
@reidgreetings5 wrote:You're convoluting the point. Which you have apparently completely missed.
Please allow me to better articulate...
The state defines taxable value on an automobile as such:
I sell a vehicle for $500. The state' taxable value is based on $500.
I sell an item on eBay. eBay' FVF is based on:
the amount agreed upon myself and the buyer AND the taxes that the state collects for that sale.
At 10% state sales tax, that comes to $550 for that same vehicle. So you, as a seller are being taxed by eBay as a FVF for the sales tax your state has already imposed.
IOW
State sales tax is not a value except to the state, and now eBay. IMHO this is a gross miscalculation, and a characterization of the word value. 😞
I'm unsure as to why we are talking about a vehicle but OK. I'm not familiar with Ebay Motor's FVFs on cars. Taxes on vehicles vary by state and counties within that state. While 10% is a valid tax rate for some areas in the USA, it isn't the most common or the average. It is the high end of taxes.
But if I were to look at this as a sale of something other than a car, most categories carry a 12.55% fee for non store owners. So 12.55% of the $50 of tax = 6.27.
In PP it would have been $50 x 2.9% = 1.45, a pretty bid difference.
However you also need to look at that the FVF on the entire transaction before MP and once in MP would be something like this.
BEFORE MP
51.00 $500 x 10.20 Ebay FVF
15.95 $550 x 2.9% PP fee
.30 Per transaction fee
66.95 Total fees
IN MP
69.03 $550 x 12.55% MP Fee
.30 Per transaction fee
69.33 Total Fees
It is important to acknowledge and understand that every sale in a given month is NOT going to be for items with a 10% sales tax rate. That just isn't going to happen unless this is the only sale you have in a month.
Sales for sellers that sell multiple items in any given months period with be a variety of numbers. Some with sales tax, some without, some with lower sales tax than 10%, etc. It will be a variety. So if you want the actual impact of how your selling fees on Ebay will be impacted when you move into MP, you have to look at a variety of transactions. I've always recommended at least a months worth of transactions.
For myself I did the comparison for six month. Each month was far closer to being a neutral change in my overall monthly fees. If you get stuck on this one type of transaction, you will never get to the reality of what is factual for you.
And notice that on sales that have no sales tax or have a sales tax below about 8%, you will actually SAVE a little money on fees in MP. Which helps to offset those times you pay more.
@reidgreetings5 wrote:"
I'm unsure as to why we are talking about a vehicle but OK.
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I chose that analogy because it was the simplest form I could conceive to illustrate the point I'm making. Which, regrettably, you are still completely missing. Are you by chance simply acting obtuse to raise your ratting with number of replies?
The point tortuously attempting to be made here. Is that:
The eBay FVF (Final Value Fee) considers State Tax as Value
But it is not Value, except to the State . So why does eBay consider State Taxes Value?
I don't have a clue as to what your point is. Ebay charges a FVF. Call it a "value" or whatever you want to, it is a fee. I don't know that this really has a point.
@reidgreetings5 wrote:NO.
What I am saying; is that:
- the state considers VALUE as the value of the item itself.
- eBay considers VALUE as the value of the item AFTER it has been taxed
Which has zero to do with "what the market will bear" -- online, or offline, and has no relation to actual value of the item itself. Which, in turn misrepresents the definition of the word/term "value".
Some states have sales tax only on the price of the item, others also tax shipping, it depends on the state.
As for Ebay, they are charging their fees on the total transaction when the seller is in MP.
