Returning item with Chinese Seller, Domestic Item

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

Ok... Chinese Seller, items are state-side.

This seller wants me to return the item to an address in California. They want to PayPal me the return shipping costs. I thought this was 100% a scam, especially because they have been trying to force and manipulate me into a partial refund. Now, I get a notice from eBay "Seller has accepted your return, but has let us know they can not provide you a return label...they are still responsible for shipping cost so arrange payment for shipping cost with them. What is this???"

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

Okay, I've read up on this further and yes foreign sellers can't provide the shipping label direct through eBay so they must send funds for the label (usually through PayPal).

My follow up question is then, what do I do if they don't or if they send insufficient funds? I've read go to eBay customer service on Facebook or Twitter (since the return is already accepted). Is this the only avenue or recourse at that time? Am I literally stuck with that?

This sounds like a really big hiccup for eBay, with their MBG and all. How in the world does eBay allow this pitfall where there is no true enforcement for eBay to make sure buyers can return items and sellers pay shipping cost. If the only true recourse is going to eBay customer service via Twitter or Facebook, that is not a "traditional" method of recourse, that's going outside the normal course of action, there is no "escalate to eBay" button...

Is this essentially a major failure of eBay in their system???

[pjcdn2005]

Yes if they don’t send you the money for a label or refund you the only recourse is to contact customer service. Posters usually recommend the Facebook route as they generally do nderstand the situation without a lot of explanation.

Yes, this is failure of the mbg system imo. 

[ma-647837]

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@ajs_coins_and_alchemy wrote:

Ok... Chinese Seller, items are state-side.

This seller wants me to return the item to an address in California. They want to PayPal me the return shipping costs. I thought this was 100% a scam, especially because they have been trying to force and manipulate me into a partial refund.

Now, I get a notice from eBay "Seller has accepted your return, but has let us know they can not provide you a return label...they are still responsible for shipping cost so arrange payment for shipping cost with them. What is this???" 

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Of course it is. Their California address can easily buy a USPS label for you to return, but won't.

INSTEAD, the PayPal gambit will pay for the return postage

-- then after the return which cannot be delivered so you won't get a refund

-- they will file an Unrecognized chargeback -- not INR, not SNAD -- to get that back too.

As you've learned, leave a private message here for eBay on Facebook, to ask for the prepaid return label. eBay will put the case on hold for 5 days, for the seller @ajs_coins_and_alchemy to either refund outright no return needed, or send CASH (a Friends & Family payment) via PayPal (not a reversible Goods or Services payment) for return postage. If neither happens, eBay will force a refund no return needed.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

@ma-647837 

I see what you're saying about non return and chargeback of postage etc. I didn't even think that far ahead. I'm just curious about the latter part you said. You said send the message and they will put the case on hold (gotcha) and they can either refund w/o return (gotcha) or send cash/friends family payment for return postage. Okay... so if they send the Paypal cash for postage...that of course prevents the chargeback for "unrecognizable" or whatever...that prevents them from charging back postage $$. I understand that... that way they can't pull the rug out from under me for postage.

BUT... where does that leave me with return of the item? Weren't you just saying "undeliverable" or can't be delivered means no refund? I mean, yes, I understand the real eBay people can override darn near anything... but for argument sake... doesnt returning this item (with guaranteed paypal postage money) to a California address and not China leave me in the not delivered / no refund of item stage anyways?

Is this basically, let the eBay social media people handle it and fix the issues situation?

[dqdistribution]

With the MBG, everytime they give me the 'Can't provide a return label'. I get refunded and get to keep the item.

Never have I once did separate payment transactions to buy my own label.

Open return, if they don't provide label, ask eBay to step in. Case gets put on 5 day hold for seller to provide return label. If they don't you get to keep item and get refunded. If they do you have to send back and once delivered you get refunded. 

Sorry, I don't think it's buyer's responsibility to jump through hoops to get the MBG honored.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

@dqdistribution 

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@dqdistribution wrote:

With the MBG, everytime they give me the 'Can't provide a return label'. I get refunded and get to keep the item.

 Are you talking about the seller saying "we can't provide a label" or eBay itself saying the seller is unable to send a label. Based on the remainder of what you said, I totally agree with what you said IF it's the seller is just saying "I can't get a return label". That's the seller playing games. In this case, eBay themselves sent a message saying "the seller notified us they can't send a label. You need to return the item and they are responsible for the shipping cost so work it out with them." There is nowhere or no button to ask for eBay to step in now because the return has been accepted. I'm responsible to ship it and seller is responsible to reimburse me. This is why we were saying it's the major pitfall of eBay's MBG ... Only way to get eBay help now is going outside of eBay to social media to talk to the real customer service crew.

[dqdistribution]

You should ignore everything the seller says.

Pretty sure that message is pretty automated by what he selected in the return information. I have gotten them all the time, and not once has that stopped me from getting refunded.

I immediately ask eBay to step in and help. Let them know it's the seller's responsibility to provide a return label. eBay put it's on hold, and if they don't provide a label, I get to keep item and get full refund.

I refuse to use own labels, especially if the address doesn't match what is listed in their return section which is typically an international address. 

If you ship with a label provided by the seller you are protected no matter if it gets delivered. If you provide your own label, you are not protected. Always force a label by asking eBay to step in.

[dqdistribution]

I forgot to mention, to get eBay to step in and help if the button isn't there you simply use their Contact page. Use 'Chat with Automated assistant'. Type Agent. Typically wait time is less than 5 minutes. They can see if you're return has been open over the threshold. Ask them to step in. They will elevated it to a full claim and put it on a 5 day hold. If a return label isn't provided in those 5 days you get to keep item and get refunded.

[lakefor94]

Yes, this whole deal with some sellers, mostly the overseas variety, gives eBay a huge black eye with their MBG. 

A lot of the time the seller selects from their end, "return shipping label already sent" (which is a crock) ,and they try to string the buyer along with partial refund offers and perhaps allow the return to go past the ~21 days to get the item in mail.

The buyer can't access a return label and then has to figure out how to contact eBay. 

Major pitfall in the return process as it relates to the MBG. Crazy to allow the buyer to have to go back and forth with the seller and one or more contacts with eBay CS to get things resolved.

Can't believe they allow the seller to not upload a legit return label within the 1st 3 days the return is open.

Can't even imagine the number of buyers disappointed and scammed by the return process that never return to purchase anything else thru eBay.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

@lakefor94 

Two things here -- 

1) I read deeper into eBay return policy. Get a load of this. Seller's official return address is in China. Seller is asking me to ship to California. Yeah, ok, right. Im going to ship to CA and eBay won't recognize the return as the item wasnt delivered to seller in China.

2) I read some screenshots of FB messages with eBay CS. People escalate and basically eBay CS says "ok, we are doing s 5 day hold. Either they will send you a label, they will send you money for a label, or we will close in your favor and refund you." So how the heck does eBay prove or disprove that the seller sent funds (outside of eBay) for the label? Sounds like one person is liable to get screwed there. I'm sure I'm not letting it be me. I have a lot better track record than this newer Chinese seller...and I've purchased over $40k and also done over $50k in sales on eBay this past year... I'm better for eBay's business than this moron trying to play games with me... you bet your rear end I'm not giving up w/o a fight.

[lakefor94]

Agreed. The process is flawed big-time and eBay knows about it and allows this to perpetuate. 

I just don't understand how a business can be run like this. Baffles the mind. Well over 10,000 employees and a return process that leaks like a sieve. 

[dqdistribution]

Honestly, if I was returning something and in your situation I would be happy with how the seller is handling it because it would mean free stuff for me.

The process is pretty simple. I have dealt with the process many many times, and never once forced to buy a label. The email you got from eBay is a nonsense one that is automated. All you do is contact CS via an instant messaging system or phone call and you will most likely have your money back in 5 days unless they provide a label, then you wait until delivery.

eBay is super on the Buyer's side. A lot of what I say I don't like to because people abuse it and the Seller typically always loses on eBay. Typically buyer loses are from obvious admissions of guilt sent via the messaging system that gives them actual evidence of contradiction. 

[kensgiftshop]

They can't send a prepaid label, they have to send you the funds to cover the shipping.

Find out how much it'll cost to return it with tracking, then respond to the seller through the return case with the amount and your Pay Pal email.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

Their US warehouse did send a prepaid label for me to ship to California. However, as discussed towards the end of the thread, the big issue is their registered return address is in China... so if I ship to California, eBay would not enforce the refund as it was not sent to the proper return address (tracking would show CA not China). I would be banking on the seller's honesty to provide a refund, which I'm honestly not inclined to do. I reached out to eBay via Facebook and got the case escalated/put on hold (5 day hold) as the seller is violating eBay's return policy and putting me in a risky situation. They'll only get their item back after I've received my refund from eBay, since there is no other avenue of enforcement. I'm not risking my $100+ on some foreigner's ethics because they don't have their addresses set properly.