A DRAMATIC SAGA. How do RETURNS work?

[trainer-phoenix]

Hey all,

I had a bad experience with a seller that offers "60 day returns. Seller pays for return shipping."

The option I selected was, "I Changed my Mind," and I am awaiting seller response.  My full description was, "The seller responded to my feedback by calling me selfish. The price was not good for the service and experience I received."

I don't understand how this works from here though.  If they don't respond what happens when Ebay steps in?  To understand the experience of both seller and buyer, this was the sequence of events.

First I purchased a $70 pokemon card, and before the item left Japan the same listing was reduced to $30.  I messaged the seller to ask if I could receive a refund for the difference, and they replied buy explaining the market price had shifted and a refund would result in the price being lower than their purchase price of the card.  The seller even offered $10 as a special refund.   I declined because I didn't think it was fair for me to take.  When the seller offered to take some responsibility for a market shift, it made me sympathetic.  The seller promised the card was better than near mint quality, and I decided I would just wait and see the card.

The saga took a turn when an attempted delivery was failed because the seller requires a signature for purchases over $30.  I messaged them about this surprise, as it was not in their listing anywhere as a policy.  I just received a $130 PSA card, and it just arrived nicely to my door.  I understood that signatures were required for ebay at $750.  The seller explained that they had to do that for insurance purposes because of the cost of the card.  I was upset, and messaged the seller ranting about how inconvenient this was for me.  I ended up getting someone else to go to the post office for me, as a signed representative because the post office was only open Mon-Fri during my work hours.

Although I was annoyed at the extra inconvenience, the card was as described so I left my feedback and moved on:

"BUYER BEWARE! Seller REQUIRES SIGNATURE on purchases over $30 for insurance purposes. Seller does not inform you through message or listing; if you work during the hours of the post office, the only way to get your package will be having a signed representative go on your behalf. The seller also stated they do not give refunds after shipping an item, but the listing states "60 day returns, seller pays for shipping." Item arrived as described, in a soft enveloped and hard sleeve."

Then the seller responded:

"This buyer complained that after I sent this card with a tracking number, he was too busy with work to receive the package. But I think that's feedback on japan post. Furthermore, they told me to refund half the price because the market price was lower than the purchase price. I always try to please my buyers, but I don't want to deal with selfish buyers like you anymore. I apologize for not being able to satisfy you with this transaction."

Honestly, seeing the seller call me selfish triggered full petty mode for me.  Why would I keep this card, that I can now purchase for $30 less, when the seller offers free returns, and called me selfish?  Full emphasis on the latter.  I thought I was being reasonable when I declined a $10 rebate because I thought the seller should get profit from the sale, not a loss.  Now, I just don't want any remembrance of this transaction so I requested a return.  I'm **bleep** about the seller's response; how could they call me selfish when I didn't even ask for the $10?!

I don't understand what to do now, though.  It just says, "awaiting seller response," with no more instructions.  Do I send the card back now?  Am I waiting for seller response before I send it?  Do I pay shipping up front and get a rebate?  What happens when ebay steps in?

Hope you enjoyed the saga.  All opinions and perspectives are welcome.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy · Accepted solution]

Going to stay out of the drama of the situation and answer the return question. Seller has a period of time to respond to the return request. I believe that time period is 3 days. 3 business days? Whatever. Seller get's a period of time to respond. They could respond by accepting the return, offering you a full refund and telling you to keep it, working something out with you to satisfy you and have you close the return, there are a variety of possible outcomes. Essentially they need to abide by their policy or otherwise compromise with you if you're willing to compromise somehow.

If the seller doesn't respond or work it out with you in that specified time, you can then escalate to EBay and they step in. As the seller would have not uphelp their return policy, this usually leads to EBay issuing a refund and you keep the item too.

I think that overall covers the return process & eBay "stepping in" well. Not sure if there is much more to add there

Staying out of the rest of your saga, just all sounds petty and ridiculous all around. I also totally don't get the price drop situation ... not quite clear on the "market change" and nearly 50% price drop, and making sure he profits off the sale etc etc etc.

[kensgiftshop]

You wait until the seller accepts or declines the return.

If the seller pays return shipping, they need to send you the money to cover it and most do it through Pay Pal.

Just because the price dropped, was no reason to try to get a partial refund.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

OH!! Yeah, heck no you don't ship anything until the seller responds to the return request. Wait til for further instructions following the result of seller response to request or EBay action.

Also, Oh, ok... I suppose I understand the market change situation (to some degree). Although I don't quite understand the significant drop in price (over 50%) in such a short period of time ... it sounds like the seller made a "bad" investment being that it was later valued at less than acquisition price. That's sellers problem. Sure, seller sold it and made profit before price supposedly dropped... but seller accepts unconditional returns. Seller is liable to get it returned and to again own it at a time where its worth less and is a net loss.

Seller decided to invest in it, market prices changed... darn, that's their problem. That's like investing in crypto! I buy/sell coins & bullion ....at least prices don't fluctuate that significantly in such short periods of time in my market space.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

---

@kensgiftshop wrote:

You wait until the seller accepts or declines the return.

If the seller pays return shipping, they need to send you the money to cover it and most do it through Pay Pal.

Just because the price dropped, was no reason to try to get a partial refund.

---

Not sure I agree with this statement. I mean, seller accepts unconditional returns, and one of the "acceptable" remorse return reasons is something to the effect of "found a better price". 

So, I could go through the whole return process and drag the seller through that just to achieve a better price (a significantly better price worth the time and energy). Or I can see if seller would partial refund instead of that hassle.

Not saying I would ask for a partial refund personally....but better price is right there in the reasons for return... and returning to repurchase, same seller or elsewhere, partial refund is the simplified version of exactly that... Purchase the 2nd card and tell seller you will return the first. Or tell them they can just discount first one and save the shipping back and forth. 

Again, not saying I condone, but... 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[trainer-phoenix]

I will wait to see the sellers response.  I can't wait to see how they addresses the return request.

Yeah the price of cards fluctuate like crypto or stocks.  After the seller explained they would have a loss I had decided to keep the card.  At that point I figured it had been my decision to purchase.  To the sellers credit, the card is beautiful and I will miss it when I return it.  I honestly have had so many pleasant transactions on ebay, but I get rattled easily with petty stuff when involving a monetary transaction.  I don't want to give this guy my business after he called me selfish.  I thought my negative feedback was valid because it required a whole second person for me to get my card.  If the seller had explained purchases over $30 require signature, I would have avoided the transaction from the beginning.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

Signature on orders over $30 is pretty excessive, but I think a negative feedback with your comments is a bit excessive too. I could see a neutral feedback. But that's me...

Him calling you selfish... honestly ... kinda puzzles me. Are you selfish to not consider his "need" to require a signature? Idk, I feel like everyone/everything sucks here in this situation

[kensgiftshop]

---

@ajs_coins_and_alchemy wrote:

---

@kensgiftshop wrote:

You wait until the seller accepts or declines the return.

If the seller pays return shipping, they need to send you the money to cover it and most do it through Pay Pal.

Just because the price dropped, was no reason to try to get a partial refund.

---

Not sure I agree with this statement. I mean, seller accepts unconditional returns, and one of the "acceptable" remorse return reasons is something to the effect of "found a better price". 

So, I could go through the whole return process and drag the seller through that just to achieve a better price (a significantly better price worth the time and energy). Or I can see if seller would partial refund instead of that hassle.

Not saying I would ask for a partial refund personally....but better price is right there in the reasons for return... and returning to repurchase, same seller or elsewhere, partial refund is the simplified version of exactly that... Purchase the 2nd card and tell seller you will return the first. Or tell them they can just discount first one and save the shipping back and forth. 

Again, not saying I condone, but... 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

---

They say they have free returns, but getting some of those International sellers to pay for it is a problem sometimes.

They try anything to keep from having to refund.

[kensgiftshop]

---

@trainer-phoenix wrote:

If the seller had explained purchases over $30 require signature, I would have avoided the transaction from the beginning.

---

If they are going to require a signature when it isn't needed, they need to mention it in their description.

Like you, a lot of people can't be home to sign for it or make it to the PO when they are open.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

Agree & Disagree, as I just went through the exact same thing this past wk with Chinese seller and domestic items. Seller had the US warehouse send me a label for return. Whole thing was a fiasco for a few reasons.

-Seller has to accept return otherwise ebay refunds.

-Seller can accept return but "tell Ebay" they are "unable to provide return label"

-Ebay then leaves it to the buyer to collect funds or receive a label from seller.

-EBay leaves you to fend for yourself and doesnt have an option for you to escalate the case within the return case as normal since seller "accepted"

This is where you have to go to EBay social media and escalate from there. My understanding is then the seller must prove they sent return postage or sufficient funds for return postage.

So... headache, yes ... but I think buyer still has the upper hand... the buyer just needs to be extra good at navigating and jumping through hoops and know the process.

Although....it is all so totally not worth the hassle. Hence why I'm not buying from international sellers ever again on EBay. I mean... for the most part. I'll buy super inexpensive stuff or stuff i will/would never want to return. Had 1 good buy from the UK and still love it to death. Super cool unique coaster that I could only find/get all the way from the god blessed UK.

[dqdistribution]

Every time I get that the seller can't provide a label, I simply escalate it to a claim and typically eBay gives it to me for free.

Sorry, I didn't sign up to give my payment info to sellers to give me the money then make me try and figure out where to get a label for a return. 

No headache, just learn to say no. "Please send me a return label so I can send back your item." 

That's all you have to actually say to the seller. You shouldn't say anything more.

If they don't give you a label or make excuses for it, simply ask eBay to step in and eBay will talk to the seller on your behalf. If eBay can't get the seller to get you a label then they will just refund and you keep the item.

Edit: BTW above is anything within 30 days of delivery. If they offer 60 day returns and you file on 31 day or later, you can't ask eBay to step in because your eBay MBG is only 30 days.