Buyer wants to return a used Apple laptop after using it for a month and modifying it.

[lalo9797]

Last month I sold my used Apple MacBook Pro on eBay. I'm a long-time eBay seller and also a high-level Apple user who has used Apple gear for years. I always maintain my things meticulously. This laptop was a 2019 model (cost more than $4K when new) and was in excellent condition in all respects. I wiped the system and shipped the item with a clean install of the latest operating system so the laptop could be set up as new right out of there box. The auction description made it clear that the laptop was in perfect working order with no issues, but that there was no warranty and that no returns would be accepted.

The item sold and was delivered to the buyer on November 21st. I thought all was well until the buyer popped up on December 18th telling me that he's now having problems with it. He reconfigured the partition of the SSD and has reinstalled the operating system to a previous version. And how the computer is crashing and giving him kernel panics. He said he wanted to let me know about this as it is still "within the 30 days."

I responded as soon as I got his message and told him, sincerely, that I'm very sorry to hear he's having issues with the laptop but that I'm not sure what he expects my role in this is at this point. He received the laptop, has used it for almost a month, has modified the SSD and OS. He's a total stranger to me and I don't know what he has done to this machine and how he has maintained it in the time he's had it. From the sound of his message I think his thinking is that he would just return it to be now for a full refund. I sent him a laptop that was working perfectly. He wants to use it for four weeks, make changes to it, and then return it to be broken for a refund.

Am I wrong thinking that I've acted in good faith and that this seller seems unreasonable? Of course, my fear is that eBay might be heavy handed and give this guy his money back, expecting me to eat the loss. I've been an eBay seller for almost two decades and I work really hard for my 100% feedback rating, sometimes having to deal with unreasonable people who perhaps should stick to buying new merchandise from billion dollar corporations, instead of buying used items at a huge discount from private sellers. 

I just wanted to throw this out there to see how others would respond in this situation. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[santamonicajeweler · Accepted solution]

Don't worry about your feedback. If returned, feedbacks are nullified and could be taken down by eBay 

Unfortunately, return is automatic and it's done by Software 

But this guy has loaded some programs. There might be a way to get %50 of sale allowable to be deducted from the payoff. But you need to see what he did and you need the laptop back to evaluate the damages. 

You have 48 hours to refund after item is received back. Have an expert look at it and give you a written Condition Report and file an appeal. 

Then call eBay and talk to a rep

[santamonicajeweler]

BTW

The most common damages to laptops nowadays are ' Heavy Gaming' and ' Mining'. Since this laptop has been worked for more than three weeks, then Buyer claimed it damaged, there is a possibility for damage caused by such actions. In Mining, laptops burnout in two to three weeks for lack of cooling systems 

You might need extra time to investigate the potential damages. Once you receive the laptop and observe the conditions, you'll be able to say with some kind of certainty.  At that time, you have 48 hours, so call eBay immediately and ask for an extension. You are allowed one,  7 day  extension. You need to exercise it to gather enough evidence to prove your case

Know this, once eBay pays off the Buyer, your case is done and it'll be very hard to get compensation for  any possible damages. Essentially, you wouldn't see a Dime

You need a third party Expert Opinion. Now is a good time to find an institution to help you with a Condition Report or even a repair center for an Estimate of Repairs. I see that you're very knowledgeable on the subject but your opinion has no value on this case. The best is to use your knowledge to your advantage by finding the right person to do the evaluation for you 

[firesteel_surplus]

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@lalo9797 wrote:

Last month I sold my used Apple MacBook Pro on eBay. I'm a long-time eBay seller and also a high-level Apple user who has used Apple gear for years. I always maintain my things meticulously. This laptop was a 2019 model (cost more than $4K when new) and was in excellent condition in all respects. I wiped the system and shipped the item with a clean install of the latest operating system so the laptop could be set up as new right out of there box. The auction description made it clear that the laptop was in perfect working order with no issues, but that there was no warranty and that no returns would be accepted.

The item sold and was delivered to the buyer on November 21st. I thought all was well until the buyer popped up on December 18th telling me that he's now having problems with it. He reconfigured the partition of the SSD and has reinstalled the operating system to a previous version. And how the computer is crashing and giving him kernel panics. He said he wanted to let me know about this as it is still "within the 30 days."

I responded as soon as I got his message and told him, sincerely, that I'm very sorry to hear he's having issues with the laptop but that I'm not sure what he expects my role in this is at this point. He received the laptop, has used it for almost a month, has modified the SSD and OS. He's a total stranger to me and I don't know what he has done to this machine and how he has maintained it in the time he's had it. From the sound of his message I think his thinking is that he would just return it to be now for a full refund. I sent him a laptop that was working perfectly. He wants to use it for four weeks, make changes to it, and then return it to be broken for a refund.

Am I wrong thinking that I've acted in good faith and that this seller seems unreasonable? Of course, my fear is that eBay might be heavy handed and give this guy his money back, expecting me to eat the loss. I've been an eBay seller for almost two decades and I work really hard for my 100% feedback rating, sometimes having to deal with unreasonable people who perhaps should stick to buying new merchandise from billion dollar corporations, instead of buying used items at a huge discount from private sellers. 

I just wanted to throw this out there to see how others would respond in this situation. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

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To add to the advice, having a "no return" policy is absolutely worthless. Ebay's return policy completely crushes your "no return" policy.

Take the item back, look it over and determine if it's damaged (even if it is, eBay will most likely refund the buyer anyway if you don't respond....).

Restore it back to the original OS and resell it.

Mike

Firesteel Surplus

[santamonicajeweler]

@firesteel_surplus said it in a few words but complete 

And if your item is legitimately damaged, eBay ignores your plea and pays Buyer anyway, then you have a bigger fish to fry

I LOVE eBay but,

You need to take them to Small Claims Court of your county of delivery address

-File for the whole amount of sale plus your expenses

-Serve cheap but legally, judges never like expensive services 

-Get two expert opinions 

-Save and printout all documents

Bad eBay policies are just that, bad! eBay has 2 Billion transactions a day. No policy is written on stone. If enough Sellers with legitimate cases follow-up, policies will be corrected. I am very sure legal team will settle with you

This is just business

[santamonicajeweler]

I say it in two ways so no one gets offended

And if your item is legitimately damaged, eBay ignores your plea and pays Buyer anyway, then you have a bigger fish to fry

I LOVE eBay but,

Fallow up with them legally 

Bad eBay policies are just that, bad! eBay has 2 Billion transactions a day. No policy is written on stone. If enough Sellers with legitimate cases follow-up, policies will be corrected. I am very sure legal team will settle with you

This is just business

[jahood1984]

You are probably out of luck here but....

If the buyer opens a return before the 30 day from delivery window  (it should like they haven't yet) , accept the return. Then call and speak with eBay requesting they read the messages, the buyer has admitted to pretty heavy modification and use and you just "might" get eBay to close it in your favor.  There's not many reasons to roll back to a prior macOS version that isn't nefarious...

  If they do it after 30 days refuse it do to modification, I wouldn't be surprised if it's been opened or missing parts (or they send a book back, Apple products tend to not go well for sellers on here).  The no return you chose kills your chance at deducting from the refund if you are a top rated seller.  

[monster-deals]

Even though the buyer modified it and thus opted themselves out of the MBG it will be ice skating uphill to get ebay to enforce that for you.

The best it gets is if you are TRS, you get to deduct up to 50% of the items value and you can also withhold the original shipping.

The worst it gets is if you try to fight the return and have ebay step in (a no returns policy is absolutely pointless) You get a ding for unresolved (just a few unresolved dings can get you kicked off ebay forever) and ebay may refund the buyer without a return and you are out the computer and your money.

Your best bet is to DM ebay for business on Twitter or FB and see if you can get someone to see that they modified the item by the buyers own admission...they probably will not do a thing but you never know.

[lalo9797]

Thanks all for the comments. I gently and professionally pushed back on the buyer, noting that the item was offered for sale without a warranty and with a policy of no returns. I also noted that the issues he was describing were not present before the item shipped, and that his concerns about the performance of the laptop were being raised only after almost 4 weeks of use. I directed him to instructions online about how to do an onboard diagnostics test of the hardware. I also encouraged him to make a free appointment with the Genius Bar. To date (knock on wood) I have not heard back from him and we have passed the point of 30 days after delivery. So I'll hope he was able to remedy his issues. This situation has really motivated me to find alternative venues for selling my high-end, lightly-used electronics. it is bad enough that I often have to fend off a litany of bidders with (0) user ratings, or those who pose as US buyers but then want to ship to mail forwarding PO Boxes. It just doesn't seem worth it any more.

[fab_finds4u]

You should have accepted the return because now they can fiie a chargeback with their cc company and get their money back and get to keep the laptop because that how chargebacks end. 

[kensgiftshop]

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@lalo9797 wrote:

Thanks all for the comments. I gently and professionally pushed back on the buyer, noting that the item was offered for sale without a warranty and with a policy of no returns. I also noted that the issues he was describing were not present before the item shipped, and that his concerns about the performance of the laptop were being raised only after almost 4 weeks of use. I directed him to instructions online about how to do an onboard diagnostics test of the hardware. I also encouraged him to make a free appointment with the Genius Bar. To date (knock on wood) I have not heard back from him and we have passed the point of 30 days after delivery. So I'll hope he was able to remedy his issues. This situation has really motivated me to find alternative venues for selling my high-end, lightly-used electronics. it is bad enough that I often have to fend off a litany of bidders with (0) user ratings, or those who pose as US buyers but then want to ship to mail forwarding PO Boxes. It just doesn't seem worth it any more.

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You do know, if the buyer goes to their credit card, you'll loose the laptop, payment and they'll charge you an extra $20.

[santamonicajeweler]

Great to hear @lalo9797 

I wouldn't worry about  Credit Card companies. Here is CC coverage for electronic purchases. It all looks like Second Hand laptops are not covered by Visa and Mastercard  

If Amex calls, give them a copy of your Sales Venue of "No Return" policy plus eBay's MBG program oversight 

www.valuepenguin.com/credit-card-purchase-protection

updated Oct 11, 2021

[monster-deals]

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@santamonicajeweler wrote:

Great to hear @lalo9797 

I wouldn't worry about  Credit Card companies. Here is CC coverage for electronic purchases. It all looks like Second Hand laptops are not covered by Visa and Mastercard  

If Amex calls, give them a copy of your Sales Venue of "No Return" policy plus eBay's MBG program oversight 

www.valuepenguin.com/credit-card-purchase-protection

updated Oct 11, 2021

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ebay isn't going to fight that

[santamonicajeweler]

@monster-deals No fighting there. Seller must show Amex

a) He had a " No Return" policy

b) On  top, there was an unused  30 day eBay Money Back Guarantee coverage, Buyer failed to use 

If Amex wouldn't accept that and debit Seller to pay Buyer, I would take Amex to Small Claims Court for not pursuing industry standards and act in prejudice. No judge will side with Amex. It wouldn't even get there and Amex will pay Seller in advance of court date

[albertabrightalberta]

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@lalo9797 wrote:

I gently and professionally pushed back on the buyer, noting that the item was offered for sale without a warranty and with a policy of no returns. I also noted that the issues he was describing were not present before the item shipped, and that his concerns about the performance of the laptop were being raised only after almost 4 weeks of use. 

*snip*

I have not heard back from him and we have passed the point of 30 days after delivery. 

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Since the SNAD dispute was filed prior to 30 days from delivery, the buyer still has time to respond and escalate the dispute. 

And (not if) WHEN he does escalate, ebay will find in the buyer's favor and issue the refund. 

If you want to even think about fighting him on the alterations, you MUST accept the return and pay for return shipping or you WILL be SOL - without the computer and without the money.