Complex searches no longer works

[cadnetix]

About a week ago, each of my saved searches started to show only 10% of the items they previously found. These are complex searches using parenthesis, double quotes and minus signs.

As an experiment I manually entered a new search a few minutes ago. When I sort the results by best match, it lists 2500 items. When I sort by price + shipping: lowest first, the same search lists 102 items. 😞

I want search to return ALL items that match my search criteria, and ZERO items that do not match. I do NOT want eBay to exclude some items and add others based on an algorithm that can not possibly know what interests me.

Can you please restore search functionality? If you don't want to restore it for everyone, I would be fine with a "Search Classic" or "Search without AI Algorithm" option.

[eburtonlab]

Lowest first searches are subject to a "relevance" filter of some sort. In most cases you should see an option to see all the results by following a link at the top of the results, but in some situations the link may not always appear.

You can edit your Lowest First Saved Searches to always show the full results by adding the following to the end of your search URL and saving the new search:

&_blrs=recall_filtering

There is also an ongoing issue where Saved Searches that are set up to show items of more than one condition (such as "used" and "open box") at the same time wind up defaulting to showing all conditions, but this should result in seeing more results rather than fewer as you are seeing.

[cadnetix]

Thanks for the suggestion, but my searches already end with &_blrs=recall_filtering.

I'm not familiar with the phrase "lowest first saved searches". These are searches I've been using for over a decade. A year or two ago -- when I started seeing the "we've streamlined your search results" message -- I added the recall_filtering. This helped, but search still missed items that matched and added items that didn't match.

Currently search is useless to me, as my saved searches do not list a single item of interest.

[eburtonlab]

This helped, but search still missed items that matched and added items that didn't match.

Can you give an example link to a search that is missing results that should be found or that contains listings that do not match?

eBay may do some keyword substitutions by default; if you want only listings that match your literal keywords without any substitutions, put one of your search keywords in quotes. Then all your results should contain your exact keywords in the title, item-specifics or category name.

[cadnetix]

Thanks, I think this is on the right track. Previously I did not double quote every term, because eBay's Saved Searches page limited the number of characters in a search. So if I added lots of quotes, I might need to split each search into two.

However now that I no longer use Saved Searches (due to the recall_filtering issue), perhaps I can use more characters.

I think what's going on is a combination of keyword substitution for non-quoted terms, plus recall_filtering no longer being at the end if I add any new criteria. I will need to experiment, then whatever the result I will follow up. If there are still problems I'll create a fake example search to illustrate.

[eburtonlab]

I have run into problems with long search URLs due to too many exclusion terms in the past, so that certainly could prevent the last few parameters (such as that recall filtering term) from being evaluated properly.

eBay has changed the way search URLs are constructed lately, so new searches may not run into problems the way old searches did. Old searches included search terms from the previous search, even when the terms were almost identical. If your Saved Searches are old, it might be worth copying your search terms into a new search.

Note that it is only necessary to put one keyword in quotes (or to use one exclusion term) to prevent any substitutions, even for non quoted keywords.

[cadnetix]

As an experiment I tried looking for items located in the United States where the title contains the words illustration and original.

eBay initially corrupts this search by adding the category Art > Paintings, which I did not specify. But after removing this category, it lists 5500 items -- if I quote the word original. Without the quotes it lists 420,000 items, may of which don't include the word illustration.  It's useful to know that quoting one term prevents search from listing many items that don't contain all of the required words.

Now if I change the search from newly listed to best match, it lists 43,000 items. recall_filtering is no longer at the end, but after moving it to the end I still get 43,000 items. Many of these additional listings are missing the word illustration. From my perspective this is a bug.

My searches are much more complex than this, as they have more include/exclude terms and search the description as well as the title. I suspect that until a week or so ago, newly listed behaved like best match in terms of showing items that did not fully match the search. This would explain why I am now seeing so few items. So this might be an improvement, but only if I'm not missing some listings that do match the search. I don't have a way to investigate this.

[eburtonlab]

I tried the searches you described and saw the same numbers.

I am not sure why changing from "Newly Listed" to "Best Match" changes the numbers of results so significantly. I generally avoid "Best Match" for a number of reasons -- mainly having to do with not understanding what eBay is optimizing for in that search sort.

It is certainly possible that eBay has changed the behavior of certain sorts or search features; eBay often makes changes with little or nothing in the way of announcements.

[eburtonlab]

eBay has recently changed the way some listings are dated; some relisted items now appear to have the original date counted as the listing date when calculating whether a listing is "newly listed" -- so many items that may have counted as "newly listed" in the past may no longer do so.

See here for some details:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Share-eBay-Technical-Issues/quot-Newly-Listed-quot-sort-feature-not-wo...

[cadnetix]

This will be my last post, so thanks for all the info.

I am only trying to sort the results so to show the most recently listed items first. For over a decade I have checked my searches every day or two to check what items  since the last time I checked. To use software lingo, this is my "use case."

I expect all of the options (best match, time: ending soonest, time: newly listed, etc.) to sort the results, not change the results. If that's not how they work, I'm at a loss for words.

[rfmtm · Accepted solution]

Complex searches for specific results is a lost cause anymore.  Plus the filters do not just "sort" but affect the number of results and what actually is viewable.  This is especially the case for a "lowest first" sort, which clearly hides items from view.  There also now is some weird interaction when "fewer words" results pop up.

I think ebay has made so many changes, and continues to do so, that it is not just what ebay wants you to see, but that search results are many times just plain unpredictable.

[eburtonlab]

I think ebay has made so many changes, and continues to do so, that it is not just what ebay wants you to see, but that search results are many times just plain unpredictable.

There are certainly situations where searches can behave unpredictably (or at least in a way that is extremely hard to understand). There are various features and exceptions that can interact in unexpected ways.

Complex searches for specific results is a lost cause anymore.

I would not go quite that far. I have created many complex searches that still seem to provide reasonable looking results. Of course it is always possible that eBay is hiding some good results from me, or serving results that I should not be seeing, but overall I am able to search for and find things that match what I am looking for as long as such items are listed and described reasonably well by sellers without my having to wade through lots of unwanted results that do not match my search criteria.

eBay's search does not always work exactly the way I would predict or the way I would like it to work every time, but eBay is not just trying to please me -- eBay is trying to maximize sales overall. eBay has very powerful incentives to make sure buyers and sellers can find each other and complete transactions, and lots of statistical data showing which searches lead to successful sales and which do not.

Sellers that know what they are selling can take steps to make it easier for any potential buyer to find those items in a typical search. Listing in the correct category, using the right keywords in the title, and adding relevant item-specifics all contribute to making items easy to find for even the most inexperienced buyers.

Likewise, buyers that know what they are looking for and know a little bit about how search works can maximize the chances of finding particular items by trying different searches -- even when a seller is listing in the "wrong" category or is not using the best keywords.

If neither the buyer or the seller really knows what they are doing, then the chances of one finding the other are much more hit-or-miss. eBay tries to use statistical methods to steer users into the right direction, or to substitute a popular keyword for a less popular one, and these techniques may work on average, but when exceptional cases occur they may fail spectacularly, and this can add to the overall unpredictability of eBay's search.

In general you can either have predictable, consistent and logically-complete search results using rigorous and unforgiving syntax... or you can have intuitive, easy-to-use even if you don't know any programming details, anyone-can-pick-up-a-phone-and-find-something-with-just-a-couple-of-keywords type searches.

You can not really have both at the same time, though. At least not as the default case.

Ideally, eBay would allow users to specify what sort of search they each want, but in practice that just means that the easy, intuitive and unpredictable search becomes the default, and that users that want rigorous and consistent logically-complete results have to understand enough of the nuts and bolts of eBay's search to get around the idiot-proof default assumptions that everyone is stuck with.

One of the problems with a highly intuitive search is that the inner workings of the search are opaque, and when problems occur, it is not easy to see what is going on, or even to recognize that there is a problem. When different users get different results based on past search history, that makes it even harder to diagnose or find solutions.

Some search suggestions:

Don't rely too much on any one search technique; try different approaches. Try multiple searches for the same items. It is easy to avoid either false positives or false negatives; it is hard to do both at the same time.

Don't rely on "Best Match", particularly if you use an ad blocker with anti-circumvention rules. "Best Match" can be useful for finding examples of what you are searching for; then use those examples to create better searches that are more targeted.

"Lowest first" sort will hide results that are not deemed "relevant" by eBay; avoid that sort if you want complete results.

You can avoid keyword substitution and automatic category navigation by using quoted keywords or exclusions, but you may miss out on relevant keyword synonyms that way.

Sometimes eBay changes the way things work; starting a new search can be useful when that happens.

[rfmtm]

Bottom line is search is manipulated and those manipulations are ever changing, not to mention some glitches here and there.   Still I am sure ebay must have some profit motive for making it work this way, but I have to assume that this only works on those that basically don't know or care about specific results.

Afraid this is not unique to ebay, Amazon is also  tough to make sure you see everything you want and not go crazy trying avoid what you don't.   Worse, even major search engines like Google have joined the show what we want them to see movement.

What's wrong with all this is, some sellers make out fantastic, while others get hidden, even if their price is the lowest and their service is the best for the exact same item.  Of course the buyer suffers too, as they may end up with not only a much higher price, but a bad seller as well.