Payments Terms of Use Update - Feb 1

[valueaddedresource]

Just got this email.....off to do more reading. 🙃

[bbravo65]

...I think the arbitration is used to prohibit a class action of multiple peoples join in court law suit...(I hope I understood well...but I could be wrong...!...again...oh bother...!)

...an individual hardly can't beat up a corporation in any legal dispute...

[mcdougle4248]

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@gregmm wrote:

Is anyone opting out of the arbitration part?

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I am not sure that I would be able to opt out.  It reads "If you are a new user of our payment services...".  I have been Using MP since September 2019, so I would not consider myself a new user unless it means I become a new user under the new terms on March 17th?   Dang, typing that made my head spin 😵

[mcdougle4248]

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@mcdougle4248 wrote:

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@gregmm wrote:

Is anyone opting out of the arbitration part?

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I am not sure that I would be able to opt out.  It reads "If you are a new user of our payment services...".  I have been Using MP since September 2019, so I would not consider myself a new user unless it means I become a new user under the new terms on March 17th?   Dang, typing that made my head spin 😵

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I read this part of the agreement again and I now think I could choose to opt out not later than 30 days after the new agreement takes effect on March 30th.  

I do not think I will opt out for two main reasons.  

1.  I am a very small seller and I do not think my chances of becoming part of a class action suit are very strong.
2.  From an expense standpoint, any dispute I may have would most likely be settled with less expense through arbitration than through physically presenting in a Utah court, with an attorney (I assume one would ne necessary).

[nuclearomen]

I got the email...click on it, glanced at the page for about 30 seconds (likely less), closed the window and never looked back. Want me to be informed on policy changes then just tell the me changes, don't send me a policy portfolio, written in legal gibberish that makes no sense and forces you to look up on goggle every paragraph for what it means... wasting hours of my time (i hate nothing more in life then wasting time!) end result leaving me more confused and stressed. 

Bottom line, ebay changed things - again - just keep selling, don't let it intimidate, most of the stuff is likely refresher from previous policy, they just want everyone to lick their shoes and smile. 

[mcdougle4248]

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@nuclearomen wrote:

I got the email...click on it, glanced at the page for about 30 seconds (likely less), closed the window and never looked back. Want me to be informed on policy changes then just tell the me changes, don't send me a policy portfolio, written in legal gibberish that makes no sense and forces you to look up on goggle every paragraph for what it means... wasting hours of my time (i hate nothing more in life then wasting time!) end result leaving me more confused and stressed. 

Bottom line, ebay changed things - again - just keep selling, don't let it intimidate, most of the stuff is likely refresher from previous policy, they just want everyone to lick their shoes and smile. 

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I understand the frustration with reading and trying to comprehend policy and terms of use changes.  I am not a highly educated person and suffered a brain injury years ago.  I don't mind reading things several times and asking questions to get clarification, for me doing that has become a way of life.   

Whether we like it or not, we are still responsible for the contents of these policies and terms as they pertain to our businesses.   I read the new terms several times to get an understanding and decided I can continue my business with eBay.  On to the next thing...

[nuclearomen]

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@mcdougle4248 wrote:

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I understand the frustration with reading and trying to comprehend policy and terms of use changes.  I am not a highly educated person and suffered a brain injury years ago.  I don't mind reading things several times and asking questions to get clarification, for me doing that has become a way of life.   

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not really, I'm not new and unfamiliar with legal documents, I dealt with contracts between bands and label for years and used a entertainment lawyer to draw those recording contracts up. 
Don't mind reading terms of service but the issue is never the terms of agreements, it's always the discussion of the terms that sever agreement or how those terms are interpreted...much like today with the constitution, generally interpreted incorrectly and used as means to make judgements on false pretenses.  

As example of contract law, Being responsible for contents would suggest we (the users of the service) have had a hand in shaping of the policies and terms as they have been put forth...which we were not. Contracts are negotiated and mutually agreed, then both sides are responsible, other wise, any portion therein is not necessarily legal biding and then can be legally argued. And they have been, many countless times, when it comes to terms and policies of internet entities. But on ebay's behalf, they are also legally bound to disclose their terms of service and policies, so them sending these to users is just coving their bases. 

Everytime ebay does this there are discussions are woe and end of days for sellers threads... yet reality is business as usual - no one really stops selling based off it - if they do, it's typically much more reason then just a policy update, such as those who have major issue with Managed Payments and decide they want no part in it so they discontinue selling on the platform... in the meantime hoping ebay hears the post about paypal and reverses the mandatory MP enrollment... or because they don't agree with ebays return /money back guaranteed policies... it's usually a combo of various reasons someone stops selling, not generally based of policy up date alone.  

[mcdougle4248]

@nuclearomen 

Thank you for the explanation and example of contract law.  Learn something new everyday 😊  

[nuclearomen]

welcome... though i'm not a lawyer. But the point is any agreement can be legally challenged - if one feels they need to - and they have been - would it be worth it is another story/topic, kinda pointless without having a specific reason mentioned. 

I'm not going to stop selling based off update... I am content with my experience on ebay, don't fully agree with everything they do etc... but I sell, i get paid, pay my bills, my wife is happy (usually), i'm happy (atm). 

[veronicabooksandart]

This sounds new:
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"Reserves

In order to manage risk or secure your obligations under these Payments Terms of Use, we reserve the right at our reasonable discretion to require that you maintain a minimum reserve of transaction proceeds not available for disbursement (in the form of a fixed or rolling reserve) as a means of security. We will notify you of any reserves we require of you. Depending on your performance and the risk associated with your use of Managed Payments, a reserve may be raised, lowered, or removed at any time; if required by law, we will give you prior notice of such changes."

[valueaddedresource]

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@veronicabooksandart wrote:

This sounds new:
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"Reserves

In order to manage risk or secure your obligations under these Payments Terms of Use, we reserve the right at our reasonable discretion to require that you maintain a minimum reserve of transaction proceeds not available for disbursement (in the form of a fixed or rolling reserve) as a means of security. We will notify you of any reserves we require of you. Depending on your performance and the risk associated with your use of Managed Payments, a reserve may be raised, lowered, or removed at any time; if required by law, we will give you prior notice of such changes."!

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@veronicabooksandart  They do provide a link to the previous version as well, which isn't nearly as good as just highlighting the differences, but at least it does help a little. 

 https://pages.ebay.com/payment/2.0/terms/2020-06-18/ 

I used "control F" and searched for "reserves" - looks to me like that section is the same in the new version as the previous one.

Reserves

In order to manage risk or secure your obligations under these Payments Terms of Use, we reserve the right at our reasonable discretion to require that you maintain a minimum reserve of transaction proceeds not available for disbursement (in the form of a fixed or rolling reserve) as a means of security. We will notify you of any reserves we require of you. Depending on your performance and the risk associated with your use of Managed Payments, a reserve may be raised, lowered, or removed at any time; if required by law, we will give you prior notice of such changes.

It could of course be one of those things where it's been in there for a while that they "may" do it, they just haven't chosen to before but "may" choose to at some point in the future.

[veronicabooksandart]

I could be wrong, but I don't remember that in the "original"... I haven't read a single board post regarding implementation.

As far as I can tell, it reads about the same. Use of third parties went from "without limit" in the "original" version (no longer accessible) to "a number" in the "previous" to simply those enumerated where you waive professional secrecy. The "chain factoring" verbage over overseas A/R reverse-factored to Adyen and Ratepay is gone as it is unnecessary.
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Nothing to see here.

[veronicabooksandart]

Actually, they use "such as" as a euphemism for "without limit". Some of the "original" wording, which included reasoning, over retaining old info (e.g., previous linked bank accounts) is gone but still loosely implied. I don't recall the "original" claiming the onboarding process might take several weeks.... The "original" was accessible a a month ago...
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The "previous" may have been concocted for this exercise.

[veronicabooksandart]

I see this exercise as "Introducing the Reserve". Doubtless it will eventually have a marked impact on those selling on multiple accounts.
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Soon they're REALLY gonna float your money.

[ronsam-197]

It's likely some terms of payments use have been changed to reflect what they perceive as an added 'risk' now that they're allowing coins & bullion to be transacted through MP. (or is the timing just coincidental?)

PayPal had similar clauses.

[nuclearomen]

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@ronsam-197 wrote:

It's likely some terms of payments use have been changed to reflect what they perceive as an added 'risk' now that they're allowing coins & bullion to be transacted through MP. (or is the timing just coincidental?)

PayPal had similar clauses.

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not the only change... for instance, as of the 15th ebay cut the ability to able to make overpayment to your account, so now everytime make a sale in MP on a items promoted listing you owe ebay "small change" ...but it's redundant to pay ebay $0.35, $0.59, $0.72...etc... every time. Starting next quarter there will no longer be a monthly invoice to pay, ebay will take any promotional listing sale fees and store fees direct from your MP funds.