Managed payments and chargebacks

[spreadlovelikefire]

I was required to transfer over to managed payments in late July.  I have already received my 3rd dispute for either item not received and/or unauthorized transaction.  My percentage is higher than it ever was with PayPal, for the 15 years I’ve sold.  Has anyone else who has managed payments experiencing anything similar?  I have $200 on hold now while tracking shows in all cases that the items were delivered.  At least PayPal wouldn’t hold my money when cases were opened but I never did have 3 of them at the same time either.  

[div_style]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@bobsattic1929 wrote:

My question probably doesn't belong here, but does anyone know

By the end of 2020, eBay will manage payments for most sellers. This is the first sentence of the message informing me I will have to register for the MP program.

My question is who are the sellers that are exempt.  

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Those that primarily sell and have a history of selling in the categories that are restricted from entering MP at this time.  Ebay is working on fixing the issues that currently prevent them from going into MP sometime next year.

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Additionally sellers that accept multiple currencies are so far exempt as eBay and Adyen have not figured out the way to process them.

[threshold.sales.group]

Just curious on the three unauthorized use claims were they before or after the new hold policy went into effect? Did you have funds held the entire duration of the dispute even though the transaction qualified for MP seller protection? 

Paypal seller protection for credit card unauthorized use and INR disputes was pretty straight forward.  Once  the seller responded and Paypal c -s verified that the transaction qualified for protection all held funds were released and the dispute was over for the seller - no matter the eventual outcome between paypal v. credit card company. 

[lacemaker3]

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@spreadlovelikefire wrote:

I was required to transfer over to managed payments in late July.  I have already received my 3rd dispute for either item not received and/or unauthorized transaction.  My percentage is higher than it ever was with PayPal, for the 15 years I’ve sold.  Has anyone else who has managed payments experiencing anything similar?  I have $200 on hold now while tracking shows in all cases that the items were delivered.  At least PayPal wouldn’t hold my money when cases were opened but I never did have 3 of them at the same time either.  

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With Managed Payments transactions, buyers are getting no identifying information on the transaction when it appears in their PayPal account or credit card/bank account. The transaction is completely anonymous from the buyer's point of view, which is a big change from what it used to be. That would explain the reported increase in Unauthorized Transaction claims.

Many buyers prefer to use PayPal for making online payments, and they use it across multiple websites. When PayPal was processing the payment for an eBay transaction, they displayed enough information about the purchase/item that buyers were able to identify what the transaction was for. PayPal also included at least some identifying information in the charge that was sent to the buyer's credit card/bank, so that the seller's identifying name on PayPal was shown in the line that showed up on the buyer's credit card/bank statement. This is generally true for all payments processed by PayPal, in my experience.

Now that Managed Payments is processing the payment, the information sent to PayPal and shown in the buyer's PayPal account is completely generic. It shows as a purchase made on eBay, with no information about the seller or item at all. The seller's user ID, item # and item title used to be shown, now there is nothing but long order numbers that don't appear to reflect anything that is recorded by eBay for the transaction.

The only way to figure out what the transaction was for is to cross-reference the purchases shown in eBay purchase history with the amount on the transaction, but this can be difficult if the total shown in the purchase history is different ... as may be the case in many scenarios:

• paying for more than one item at once, whether from one seller or more than one, the buyer might see individual prices in purchase history but the PayPal transaction would show a total amount
• using eBay bucks, coupons, etc. to pay for an item (total may not include the discount)
• paying for an international item that was listed in a different currency, involving currency conversion because the converted amount shown in purchase history changes from day to day (eBay has never displayed this accurately in purchase history because they appear to use the conversion rate in effect at the time of viewing and recalculate the amount, instead of using the conversion rate that was applied at the time the transaction was paid for)

Many buyers are probably used to just being able to keep track of their transactions in PayPal, which is convenient when they make online purchases on multiple websites. These buyers may have never needed to go spelunking through their eBay purchase history, and might not even think of doing so. Even if they tried to identify the transaction, they might not have been able to match up the amount with anything in their purchase history.

I always pay with PayPal for online purchases if at all possible, so I don't know how Managed Payments purchases are shown if they are paid directly with a credit/debit card. I don't have any intention of finding out, either, because I don't ever want to pay directly.

[spreadlovelikefire]

This whole process is actually throwing me for a loop.  So the first one opened was an item not received.  Easy enough, uploaded tracking to the case that shows it was delivered and it should close.  Ebay withholds the money until their financial institution makes a decision even though I would have seller protections.  Makes no sense.  The second one was an item not described charge back, even though it fell within the first 30 days of purchase and I have free returns.  I called customer service and was told I'd never win it.  That I should just accept it and count my losses.  I emailed the buyer after accepting the chargeback and the buyer actually said she made a mistake, that it wasn't my item, it was another one just like it from another seller.  So now I get to refund her for that and have no way of getting my product back.  Paypal at least would require them to return the item, eBay does not.  So the sellers is at a huge loss if that is how the charge back is opened.  The third was an unauthorized transaction.  I uploaded tracking and minutes later received an email from eBay saying they made a decision and refunded the buyer but didn't take the funds from me.  So not sure why that one ended up that way but it was bizarre.  

One things is for sure though, I've never had so many chargebacks opened at one time over the years with Paypal.  So something has changed and I'm leaning towards managed payments.  It must be how they are reporting the sales and/or how they are making it easy for people to file these.  

[mam98031]

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@spreadlovelikefire wrote:

This whole process is actually throwing me for a loop.  So the first one opened was an item not received.  Easy enough, uploaded tracking to the case that shows it was delivered and it should close.  Ebay withholds the money until their financial institution makes a decision even though I would have seller protections.  Makes no sense.  The second one was an item not described charge back, even though it fell within the first 30 days of purchase and I have free returns.  I called customer service and was told I'd never win it.  That I should just accept it and count my losses.  I emailed the buyer after accepting the chargeback and the buyer actually said she made a mistake, that it wasn't my item, it was another one just like it from another seller.  So now I get to refund her for that and have no way of getting my product back.  Paypal at least would require them to return the item, eBay does not.  So the sellers is at a huge loss if that is how the charge back is opened.  The third was an unauthorized transaction.  I uploaded tracking and minutes later received an email from eBay saying they made a decision and refunded the buyer but didn't take the funds from me.  So not sure why that one ended up that way but it was bizarre.  

One things is for sure though, I've never had so many chargebacks opened at one time over the years with Paypal.  So something has changed and I'm leaning towards managed payments.  It must be how they are reporting the sales and/or how they are making it easy for people to file these.  

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1.  What do you mean by "financial institution"?  Was it a straight INR or was it a chargeback [cc dispute]?  If it was an INR, Ebay makes the decision on those with no consideration to any financial institution.  This is the same in MP or not.

2.  Was that an INAD or a chargeback?  It does make a difference as they are handled differently as they aren't the same thing.  On an INAD [filed in Ebay] this is so true since they started Simplified Returns in the fall of 2018.  Again, nothing to do with MP as this is something we have all dealt with for over a couple years now.  It is next to impossible to win an INAD if you ask Ebay to step in no matter how much evidence you have.  For a seller to win is extremely rare.  It is more likely by asking Ebay to step in it will just cost you more money as you won't get your FVFs refunded and you get a defect.  And if the buyer had not shipped the item back to you yet, you may be out the product too.

Wait.  If you accepted the INAD, then Ebay will NOT force a refund or expect you to refund until after you received the item back.  So if your buyer is telling you they mixed up their sellers, all they need to do is go close the claim and it will all be over.  

Again you are using INAD and chargeback it seems interchangeably and they have two different meanings, so I could be a little confused following your story.

3.  Ebay did that because your transaction was protected by following the Seller protection rules.  So they did as they should have and you weren't out any money.

It is far more likely this very unusual year we are having for so many different reasons and nothing at all to do with MP.

[dede394]

Yes, indeed.

e.g. Reason code 13.1 is Merchandise Not Received.

Is it a chargeback or an INR?

e.g. Reason code 53 is Goods Not as Described or Defective.

SNAD or chargeback?

[spreadlovelikefire]

It was a chargeback that was opened as item not as described.  It wasn't opened through ebay, it was opened through her financial institution.  And because it was opened that way, sellers have no recourse.  Ebay has no way of requiring the buyer to return the item and the financial institution will not follow up on that either.   

Also, I was just informed that their is a technical issue with ebay managed payments and I will not be receiving any of money for this week as their page is down.  They wouldn't give me an ETA or let me speak with a manager.  I have no information on my payout.  This is a mess, a huge mess. 

I am not using INAD and chargeback interchangeably.  All three chargebacks were that, chargebacks.  But one was opened as INAD.  When that happens eBay has no seller protection at all.  Nothing.  We don't get our item back and if we don't refund them through the case then there will be the $30 chargeback fee added on as well.  Even if the buyer says they opened it incorrectly.   

[mam98031]

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@spreadlovelikefire wrote:

It was a chargeback that was opened as item not as described.  It wasn't opened through ebay, it was opened through her financial institution.  And because it was opened that way, sellers have no recourse.  Ebay has no way of requiring the buyer to return the item and the financial institution will not follow up on that either.   

Also, I was just informed that their is a technical issue with ebay managed payments and I will not be receiving any of money for this week as their page is down.  They wouldn't give me an ETA or let me speak with a manager.  I have no information on my payout.  This is a mess, a huge mess. 

I am not using INAD and chargeback interchangeably.  All three chargebacks were that, chargebacks.  But one was opened as INAD.  When that happens eBay has no seller protection at all.  Nothing.  We don't get our item back and if we don't refund them through the case then there will be the $30 chargeback fee added on as well.  Even if the buyer says they opened it incorrectly.   

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A chargeback is when the buyer goes to their CCC and files a dispute on a transaction.

An INAD is a Request for Return that is filed in Ebay.

The two are completely different types of functions and have different processes.

So you are saying the buyer opened a claim with both their CCC and then they opened another claim in Ebay.  If that is what happened, then there is a serious problem here as one of the big advantages of MP is that Ebay can easily catch buyers trying to abuse the system in this way.  Opening two claims is against the Ebay rules.

If this is what happened, this is even a bigger issue.

Ebay does have the ability to require a buyer to return an item when a INAD is opened.  No return, no refund.

The Payment page being down shouldn't prevent a transfer from happening.  The Payment page is an informational page not the program that creates or controls the transfers.  My transfer did happen this morning and I received the email telling me so but my Payment page is down.

The chargeback fee is $20 and that is only if you lose the chargeback.  

It appears to me that you have some unique things going on with your account.

@Anonymous 

[spreadlovelikefire]

No, that is not what I am saying.  Apparently they have the option to open a chargeback with their credit card company for item not as described.  I have never had one before.  This was a first for me.  I can upload screen shots of the open case with the chargeback showing it was item not as described.  So the customer circumvented eBay's money back guarantee and opened it with their financial institution.  When that happens eBay has no way of requiring the item to be returned.  I have free returns set up, I'm a pretty seasoned seller, been selling full time for almost a decade now.  I've never had a chargeback as an item not as described before.  Didn't know it was even a thing but it is.  

[spreadlovelikefire]

[mam98031]

To me, that appears to be an INAD.  Not a chargeback.  So you don't have to be concerned with the $20 chargeback fee.

While MP would be holding your money due to the INAD being filed, it should not release the money to the buyer until after you get the item back and you have a chance to issue the refund [up to 2 days].  

It appears on October 1st you accepted the dispute and allowed the refund.  That is what the pic above says.  So it is unlikely that your buyer will return the item since you allowed the refund to happen and didn't require them to ship it back first.

[lacemaker3]

@spreadlovelikefire, forgive my ignorance, but how do you know that dispute is a chargeback?

I guess there must be something different shown on the page in your screenshot, compared to a dispute that was opened on eBay? Could you please explain.

[spreadlovelikefire]

Because of the words "payment dispute details".  It also says under that that "if possible, your item will be returned".  There was no place to upload a label because it wasn't a return.  I called eBay and they said it's at the mercy of their financial institution and from history they don't see these won very often because there is no way for a credit card company to prove the item wasn't as described.  So if I didn't accept it and I challenged it I would not only be out the item and the sale price, but also the chargeback fee.  If it was a return opened through ebay you have the ability to purchase a label and submit it for a return.  This is absolutely not a return.  

[spreadlovelikefire]

It's not an INAD.  It's a chargeback.  An INAD through ebay would allow for a label to be purchased for a return, this is not that.  I have no way of getting the item back.  Please refer to the wording under which I have circled.  This is a payment dispute with a credit card, not an INAD with eBay.  They are handled much different.  Ebay has no way of requiring them to ship it back at all with these.  

[spreadlovelikefire]

Also I have free returns.  So I'd never have an INAD opened through the resolution center, it would opened as a return.