Managed Payments Issues

[cleviebee]

Recently, I enrolled in Ebay Mangeed Payments for sellers because the indicastion was that my selling acount would be limited if I did not switch from Paypal to Managed Payments. I have been very disappointed and frankly, I feel defrauded by Ebay, because I still have not received funds in my account from a sale 3 days ago. I miss Paypal, when I transferred the funds to my bank account myself, and the money was available the next day. I would like to hear from other disgruntled sellers and discuss ways around this inferior system.

[originalapplecountry]

Wrong, everyone is being hurt by bad policy and corporate greed.

Its human nature to desire control of one's money and actions, and ebay literally is creating an imbalance where none previously existed.  

Both buyers and sellers are being negatively affected.  Buyers have less buying choices,  slower arrival times,  and are paying more for items because of the limits of supply. Sellers are paying more fees, getting funds slower,  arent able to list legally sellable items,  and are being limited in selling abilities by ebay regardless of store subscription and previously agreed and established terms.

[originalapplecountry]

True, we could accept credit cards ourselves or use zelle or cashapp or even ach transfer or paypal or a dozen services faster and easier and with more confidence than ebays managed payments.  

[mam98031]

@originalapplecountry 

Ebay did not ask us to join,  they told us to and when we didn't, they stopped our ability to list new items or edit or manage the 800 items in our premium level store which we pay $60 each month for.

The not really tell us to join or ask us to join, it is kind of in between.  They inform us that we need to join MP if we want to continue to sell on Ebay after a certain date.  

Long ago I asked them about sellers with a store that has a yearly subscription fee, what if those sellers decide they don't want to continue to sell on EBay.  The response was since they have been telling us for over 3 years that we would be going into MP we should have planned for that.  Originally they were telling us 2020, late 2020 they moved that to 2021.  So they would not forgive early termination fees if a seller needed to close their store.  I've not tested that or asked them since I got that answer a few months back.

 Ebay is charging us for having a store (and has for 7 years) but is now limiting the operation of it and causing us to lose thousands of dollars.  

True but for reasons I stated above.

We were given the option of signing up and losing thousands of dollars in sales from restricted categories we would then be barred from,  or to lose all ability to create and manage listings.  Sounds like a Lose-Lose scenario. 

Your sold items don't show that kind of history.  Are you talking about another account?

Ebay appears to be forcing sellers to switch  more for control or some other intent and not out of desire for profit since ebay will lose overall not being able to charge us any fees at all for listings we are restricted from making.  While we lost thousands in sales, ebay literally is losing out on hundreds of dollars in fees every week.

There is a handful of restricted categories.  Not because Ebay doesn't want anyone from selling in them but because they present some unique issues with the federal laws they must comply with.   They are working towards resolving these issues.  In Coins and paper money they are making heady with those and are scheduled to have those fully resolve by the beginning of March.

With that said, if you primarily sell in any of the restricted categories MP has said they won't be moving those sellers into MP until the issues are resolved.  So if you feel you have been wrongfully required to enter MP due to your sales history in restricted categories, you should contact Ebay right away.

Why would sellers who obviously don't want to participate in a bad business idea be forced in such a way against their will and better judgement? Wouldnt it make more sense economically for ebay not to ban or alienate sellers and lose all that money and business? Why would any company sacrifice 10% of profits for the lives of so many sellers and so many categories only to push an extra 3% on those who stay?

Not everyone sees MP the same way you do.

All of this is bad enough,  not even considering the fact that ebays managed payments system is broken,  inefficient, slow, confusing, insecure, and unfair.  

Well those are quite some accusations.  Are you just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks or can you back up some of the more serious accusations??  Because some of us don't like the system doesn't mean it is "broken".  MP currently works the way it is currently designed to work.  

What makes it "insecure"?  Specifically, what is "insecure"?

We made an educated decision not to join managed payments after reading thousands of comments and watching dozens of video reviews.  

Making informed decisions is the best approach for sure.  Hopefully that is what you read, not just those venting about MP as they often are not representing how the program actually works.  It isn't perfect and there is a whole lot of room for improvement, that is for sure.  Many of the posts are not based in fact but emotions.

Now we are still paying full price for a full size store but arent able to list or make any new profit, or edit quantities or descriptions.  How is that fair?

I understand how and why you feel this way for sure.  But Ebay's position is they have been telling us for years this was coming and it would be a requirement, so we should have been preparing for it.  I'm not sure I agree with that argument, but it is what they said to me.

Ebay owns the site so they can set the rules.  Some we like and some we don't.  But like all the other sites that have their own money processing programs, Ebay now has theirs.

[originalapplecountry]

We upped our handling time to 10 business days because of ebays new policies and just charge more to customers who want expedited shipping by requiring a bigger best offer if they want it faster.  We will take more risk and deal with more problems,  but not without more reward.  For us,  many problems were translated from seller issues to buyer ones. We don't care how slow it gets to customers, if we have to wait for the money then the customer must wait for the product and its ebays fault for being a bad middleman. Customers can still pay outside the ebay system which isnt against policy since they still get their fees on a sale within the system and customers receive products faster than within ebays payments system....so we just ask they don't checkout in ebay if that's the case.  We can mark payment received and ship and send without ebays system, but the limits on creating or revising listings without joining managed payments are still highly damaging to us.  

[mam98031]

@originalapplecountry 

On all the other sites that have their own money processing programs, there is NO ability to opt in or out.  Ebay is just moving that direction too.

If your decision is so dire as you outline above, I'm unsure what it is about MP that has you willing to give up your business for.  That simply doesn't make sense to me.  If your business is profitable on Ebay, then MP isn't going to change that.  But it will require that you make some adjustments to be sure.  None of which should cause you to lose your business.

What is so bad about MP that it would cause you to make the determination that it is better to let your business go under than to revamp your business model to accommodate for MP?  Specifically what?  I'm not picking on you, I'm just not sure you have accurate information in which to base your decision from as your decision is pretty darn damaging for you.

[mam98031]

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@originalapplecountry wrote:

Wrong, everyone is being hurt by bad policy and corporate greed.

Its human nature to desire control of one's money and actions, and ebay literally is creating an imbalance where none previously existed.  

Both buyers and sellers are being negatively affected.  Buyers have less buying choices,  slower arrival times,  and are paying more for items because of the limits of supply. Sellers are paying more fees, getting funds slower,  arent able to list legally sellable items,  and are being limited in selling abilities by ebay regardless of store subscription and previously agreed and established terms.

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You can't speak for "everyone" anymore than any one else can.  There are way too many of us with only a fraction of sellers being represented on the threads.

It is also human nature to fight change.  The bigger the change the harder the fight.

OMG you should have been around for the fight on the threads with Ebay mandated PayPal.  Basically all the same things were said about Ebay as are being said now.  Ebay is horrible, they will go under, it is unfair, no one wants it, I won't do it, etc. etc. etc.

Buyers are not or should not be negatively impacted by MP unless the seller is trying to drag them into their fight with Ebay.  For buyers the only thing that changes is that the GAIN two more ways to pay.  Apple pay and Google pay.  If you concern is that so many sellers will leave that the inventory will somehow be low, other sellers will pick up the slack and move on.  And new sellers join all the time.

[originalapplecountry]

For some,  regression is inevitable.  For the rest of us,  change only is allowed to occur though positive progress and improvement. If marketplaces are headed in a bad direction, its the duty of those who use them to resist until they can't anymore,  for one reason or another.  

[mam98031]

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@originalapplecountry wrote:

We upped our handling time to 10 business days because of ebays new policies and just charge more to customers who want expedited shipping by requiring a bigger best offer if they want it faster.  We will take more risk and deal with more problems,  but not without more reward.  For us,  many problems were translated from seller issues to buyer ones. We don't care how slow it gets to customers, if we have to wait for the money then the customer must wait for the product and its ebays fault for being a bad middleman. Customers can still pay outside the ebay system which isnt against policy since they still get their fees on a sale within the system and customers receive products faster than within ebays payments system....so we just ask they don't checkout in ebay if that's the case.  We can mark payment received and ship and send without ebays system, but the limits on creating or revising listings without joining managed payments are still highly damaging to us.  

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Likely Ebay would see that quite a bit differently and so should the buyer since what you describe causes them to LOSE their buyer protection on Ebay.  As a buyer I certainly wouldn't do that and if I had a seller approach me and ask me not to pay for the item in Ebay but via some other method that you aren't describing, I would immediately as to cancel the order.

[originalapplecountry]

Very interesting that mam98031 would sound so very much like they are an ebay representative.

We do want to continue selling on ebay, we arent willingly quitting ebay. We are being suffocated for not wanting a bad business decision made for us. Your comparison of us to someone who doesn't want to sell here anymore is inaccurate. We get that ebay may force us to quit, but we wont quit of our own choice even with our store selling restrictions. 

We only have 1 account,  but how can you view our sold items in any depth? Even we dont have much info past 90 days with ebays system (and without paypal) and you fail to be able to see our unsold items unable to be relisted such as campers and vehicles.  Also, we have dozens of transactions with bullion and coins, and we sell adult items like magazines and memorabilia, adult artwork, and occasionally sell gift cards also. Nevermind that 3 times we sold a camper it went unpaid by bad buyers, its the ability to be restricted from listing and selling titled vehicles which is a major problem. Sometimes we sell cars and trucks and trailers for 3-10 day auctions only, now we cant. We have made many transactions we wouldnt have been able to on managed payments and signing up early wouldve lost us thousands in missed opportunities.  Its wrong for us to pay the same and lose in every scenario. 

Perhaps not everyone sees managed payments like we do, but a quick tally of this thread or any given thread of the subject, or the entire payments related portion of the community forum, will show a majority unhappy vs happy. I believe searching the term "nightmare" would yield hundreds of results since "ebay managed payments nightmare" is the 5th suggestion of google by just typing "ebay manage..." 

I think you, mam, will find yourself in the minority as only approx 350k of 7 million USA sellers are enrolled and a majority are unhappy or have expressed unhappiness about it at some point. Those who are happy probably havent experienced the losses which we describe, or just dont know how brown and spotty their grass is. 

It seems you have taken almost personal offense to our criticism of ebays managed payments system and you obviously care very much of its public opinion judging by the speed of your response.  Since you dont state you disagree that its inefficient, slow, confusing, or unfair, we will tell you its obviously broken because its not working for many people who have reported holds and issues communicating with ebay (who is frequently unable to be reached because  "the call center is closed before you will be called, etc. " ) It is broken because it requires you to pay money for refunds before even receiving the original funds in some cases, and because you cant instantly transfer money in 15 minutes like with paypal it causes a breakdown in processing. It is further broken because it takes fees from taxes, it doesnt archive sales and fees properly long term, and doesnt provide the extensive bookkeeping of paypal. It is working as designed, which is poorly, and we arent even addressing all our grievances or problems we have with the mismanagement or the bad design of the managed payments system.

Its insecure because it places control of your money and financial and personally identifiable information and data out of your hands. Ebay has been the victim of many hacks and if you dont remember the huge one from 2014, youd better refresh your memory. The only thing that protected financial info in that instance was the separation of ebay and paypal.

https://www.mcafee.com/blogs/enterprise/cloud-security/how-bad-is-the-ebay-breach-here-are-the-stats...

There are many breaches you haven't heard about and any new system is especially vulnerable to multiple types of abuse.  We would rather use a tried and tested system such as paypal than to use any system so full of problems and user complaints. We use special computers to deal just with paypal and online banking, and the control of the banking is not something i can even control as an employee simply paid by my employer who also doesnt want to give employees the access to the businesses full bank accounts. The current system provides safety of funds and a system of checks and balances which we are happy with. The more people with access to funds or information which affects them, the worse our security is. Since google and facebook now have data partnerships with ebay, the whole thing is ripe for data breaches from many angles and none of these companies are trustworthy. Just look at the recent equifax breach and how that went. Ebays payments system is redundant and ebay as a company isnt secure like a financial institution so we cant trust it to act like one. We have seen hundreds of comments from people who cant access funds for sold items, how is that secure?

People are venting because ebay managed payments makes them angry, this isn't happening for no reason. People are angry, and rightfully so, due to being wronged by a giant company steamrolling them. Also,  emotions arent wrong, and shouldnt be discredited.  Logic is great when it can be found in ebay, but emotions rule the world  and drive many sales and discrediting someones emotions has real effects, including some of the most profound and consequential in all of human experience.  

It doesnt matter how many years ebay has talked about making a switch to managing payments, they are forcibly divorcing from us the ability to sell items and maintain our business when we are paying a subscription to use. Ebay chose to automatically renew our store subscription knowing we wouldnt agree to their managed payments system, having stated as such to them for nearly 4 months. Ebay should not be allowed to charge us any subscription fees if they are limiting our selling ability for non-performance related issues, or anything so far out of our control. They should not restrict us from making legal sales we could've made a month ago just to be a part of a bad program either. 

You seem to think this resistance comes from nowhere, but perhaps you need to do more thinking and research for yourself.  This many people being this upset is for a logical reason, (problems with trust and money flow are actual problems) like it or not. Ebays hostile attitude and actions leave little room for trust after all, and if you dont have trust in business partnerships then you can obviously only rely on your own actions to keep business flowing smoothly. Just because you are happy in a cage doesnt mean those of us outside of it want to join you or dont understand the views from both sides of the cage. 

[mam98031]

@originalapplecountry 

Twist it any way that suits your needs, but your screen shots support what I said before.  Ebay was hacked in 2014 and ZERO personal data or financial data was lost.  That was the ONLY time Ebay was hacked and NO ONE had their account compromised because of it, so what is your point.  To support what I previously said.

And that is the ONLY reason you need to leave Ebay.  That you don't want to sell here anymore.  Completely your decision and reasons aren't necessary.  You have every right to leave if you want to.  I hope whatever you choose to do next works out well for you.

I simply gave you some facts.  You don't like them, that is fine.  Doesn't matter to me.

[originalapplecountry]

Saying other companies have systems to manage payments similarly is irrelevant, as we dont have any presence anywhere else and the policies of other marketplace companies have no impact on our decisions made in regards to actions within ebay. Saying they all are a specific way is certainly inaccurate, but perhaps just the ones you use are this way so its normal for you in your experience to give up your rights to control of your money. We are a business based on peer to peer transactions facilitated within ebay, but not dependent on it for money or financial help or escrow needs, etc. There is no benefit for our company to use the managed payments system, only loss and more loss. The fact is we would rather continue with selling restrictions and still use paypal until all of our items sell or ebay shuts us off entirely than continue and thus condone a system hostile to its userbase and with monetary and security issues. 

The principle of the matter is that although we can continue selling with ebays managed payments system,  its not a good option, and its a severe downgrade in services and quality and ability to sell from what we are currently subscribed to paying for. To agree to willingly sign up would be a agreeing to those loses in freedom to list and control our funds, which is currently just something being imposed upon us. We are being throttled in sales right now, but hopefully ebay will open us back up so we can both make more money, otherwise we will take their beating and continue voicing our opposition and our experience to whoever on any platform that will listen. They have in fact stated to us that not everyone will be in the managed payment system, and that there is an option to be delayed while the system is still not finalized with everyone on ebay, and perhaps it never will be. There are exceptions to the rule and to the system and and so we opt out or will be forced to stop selling. The best course of action is for us to just proceed as we always have, and note and claim the losses ebay has brought about by their restrictions.  We dont expect you to understand why anyone takes a firm stance on anything, but we are being bullied and thats undeniable. We take screenshots regularly of the effects of the restriction for our records in case this information becomes useful since this is whats called a "shakedown" and happens when someone wants more money or control then they are currently getting and make hostile actions or exclusions against parties to force compliance. These highly questionable and unethical impositions of will may be resolved, but meaningfully couldn't by just agreeing to and accepting them. 

If you want to beg for ebays scraps of whatever theyre left offering you, fine, but you should remember that it doesnt have to be this bad, but it was your choice to allow it. I hope your comments for ebays managed payments system are a paid gig, because youre not sounding like an authentic user and that would explain it. More people disagree with you than agree Mam, and that should tell you all you need to know about general sentiment in this program. 

We dont need to justify anything to anyone and each seller should have the ability to make an educated decision for themselves. We hope that you have a good experience and we realize everyone has different circumstances so we wont hold what we consider to be wrong for us as also wrong for you.  Perhaps you're not feeling bullied, or you've never stood up to one, but we will be crushed before we make choices which make us feel like slaves to the system of any other company. This is America and we don't like tyranny or monopolies here. If our little country store suffers, we are suffering for American principles based in freedom of expression and association, among others. If you would rather have money than freedom of self determination then that's up to you, but dont demand it from us or expect us to sellout. We have a problem with being forced into anything we dont agree with, especially when it sacrifices integrity, and we should all feel that way if we were speaking the truth. 

[kensgiftshop]

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@cleviebee wrote:

It is not a reading issue. It is a service issue. Reading the policy does not change the policy, nor does it provide the seller with any choice other than whether to continue selling on Ebay. Regardless, the Managed Payment system in no way benefits sellers. Etsy offers a much better selling platform than the current version of Ebay. I suppose the solution is to sell only on Etsy and Poshmark.

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I don't know anything about Poshmark, but you do know that Etsy uses the same program as Ebay.

I was there when they switched over, and like here, some sellers were not very happy, but it's worked out good.

[originalapplecountry]

In one message you say "everyone will have managed payments" then you say "not everyone is affected. How can you speak for everyone?" Ill just let readers scratch their heads about that one. 

We would argue that humanity needs change, and even thrives from it. Positive change is of course what we aim for, but resistance to bad ideas isnt the same as resistance to any change, and bad changes being resisted is what leads to better outcomes. The foundation of the entire world is resisting bad changes and making good ones after all.  However, as the saying goes, its hard times that create strong people, strong people who create good times, good times leads to weakness, and weakness leads to bad times...etc...round and round. Change is inevitable, but bad changes are not unstoppable or irreversible.  

Ebay only mandated an account with paypal, not the absolute use of its service. Not a comparison. We would sign up for ebay managed payments in addition to paypal provided we didnt lose out on categories, but see no reason why we should be mandated to use it solely when there are much better options available and when we could still sell and accept payment for those restricted categories with the use of paypal. We still use paypal to buy, and see no point in using any other method to pay for our purchases or any reason not to directly accept buyers payments, through paypal or otherwise. If ebay wants to accept google and apple pay then ok, they can transfer it from their managed payments to our paypal, and they dont need our banking info. 

Ebays business model and losses are not our concern, but we are seeing less and less listings from sellers in the vehicles and bullion and gift card categories, which drives up prices of those remaining. Ebay is not immune to supply and demand.  

About direct payments and buyer protections....we always send our items as described and can take payment by zelle, cashapp, credit card, money order, bank transfer, ach transfer, cash deposit in our bank account, etc. Not having to participate in the ebay moneyback guarantee, the most buyer fraud ridden policy of all time, is not a problem for us or our legitimate buyers. Many of our vehicle transactions arent done in paypal besides minimal deposits anyway, and those are the most valuable transactions of all. We are trustworthy, and that matters most, so if you dont trust us then come in person to pick up your item, make other arrangements, or dont buy from us, no problem.  

I would suggest any reader view information about ebays history with data breaches for themselves, as well as some of the other headlines ebay officials and employees have in the news. Your saying it was one time was wrong,  its just one huge time so far, with many other instances. Accounts are stolen daily and one only needs to be trying to purchase a new graphics card to see ebay is full of scams at any given hour of any given day. I just said that the only reason no financial data was stolen in 2014 was because of the separation between ebay and paypal, where if it occurred today with the same circumstances the entire managed payments system would be compromised.  More big data breaches are guaranteed to occur, given enough time passes, and small ones are more frequent than ebay will ever admit. So far paypal has a better track record with cyber security, so for now thats who we are more comfortable with. For most transactions our money only stays in paypal an average of 15 minutes anyway before an instant transfer to our bank account, so we have cash in hand in less than a half hour total from the moment the buyer pays. Ebay has no comparison to this speed or efficiency. 

Again, we have stated that we dont want to leave ebay, but it sure sounds like you want us to. We wont be leaving ebay unless they kick us off entirely, sorry. We believe in free and fair trade and we believe in ebay overall, even with their misguided moneygrabbing bullying of us. We have been here many years with thousands of sales and the current system worked for us, so we see no need for such drastic changes when there are no benefits. Had ebay mentioned extras such as more additional categories, faster money transfers, significant additional seller protections, truly reduced fees, or anything else that would make the switch a good decision we wouldve signed up day 1. As it is, we constantly have to check ebay is not selling our info to third party vendors or other things by monitoring account settings and unchecking boxes that didnt exist before, and we are suspicious of being forced into any program against our better judgement.  We have done our due diligence and arent comfortable with ebays current managed payments system at this time. We arent saying it couldn't be excellent and completely worth it, but right now it couldnt be much worse than it is. 

We are happy ebay buyers and sellers in general though, its specifically and only the managing of payments by a broken and insecure system which we oppose. If it didnt have all the problems it does, people would be rushing to use it and compaints would be negligible.  Instead, you have forced compliance through hostile actions against friendly businesses loyal to ebay for years. They are going about it all the wrong way though if youre expecting a company which cares about its users. If you Mam, are rooting for a bully to ban us for wanting monetary security, you must have an alternative agenda. 

This whole thread makes ebay look just how they are, and if that perception is making you salty we must wonder why? Our opinions in these forums exist here and now as a result of ebays problems and faults, otherwise there would be no such reaction. If we had nothing to complain about, ebay would be doing a good job, and up until recently such was the case. Now here we are, in the ranks of the mistreated, expressing dissatisfaction and spreading our story for any who it might help or lend clarity to. 

Also, this thread was locked from my replying to you for over an hour, i wonder why that was? 

[mam98031]

@originalapplecountry 

"Also, this thread was locked from my replying to you for over an hour, i wonder why that was?"  Don't know, glitch maybe.  I was off enjoying some family time for the last few hours.  There isn't a conspiracy around every corner.

[ca_reibo]

You're right! I have no idea how my question got directed to you, as it was in response to something someone else posted. I apologize for that.

Because you are so knowledgeable about ebay and the MP process, perhaps you can explain something else to me. I keep getting messages from ebay saying that there's a problem with the information I entered about my bank account. I called the bank, and we went over everything in my ebay form, line by line...name...address...bank...routing number...account number. It all matches perfectly. I updated it last week, but I continue to get messages saying that I can't get paid, because my account needs to be updated.  I have read that others have experienced the same problem. Meanwhile, I have had sales for which I'm not receiving payment. Having grown accustomed to having the money in my PayPal account immediately when a sale is made, I'm sure you understand how distressing this is.

I'd appreciate any suggestions you might have about how to resolve the "updating" issue, when there's nothing left to update. Both my banker and I have exhausted options to try.

Thank you!