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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

First off, I will admit that electrical engineering is not this civil engineer's area of expertise. I thought that N power packs were for N scale, HO packs for HO layouts, you get the idea. Now I have test run my On30 purchases with both a N pack and a HO pack; I got better control with the N unit. But now I have seen a Bachmann transformer for G, HO and N scales! How can this be? I know Bachmann isn't a great power unit and I use MRCs. So what ratings do I look for in a power pack to run a G engine? I always thought heat would be an issue --- some thing would burn up and that would be it! Help me understand these things. And remember, I still don't understand how one can run 2 identical engines --- one forward facing and one reverse facing at the same time. Thanks for the help, Lee in Tucson
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Lee, I'll try to make this simple. What you basically need to know is this; what is the power output of your power pack in terms of amperage. Most N scale engines draw .75 amp of power, HO will draw 1.0 amp, On30 will draw 1.25 to 1.75 and G can draw 2+ amps. These figures are approximate and are for one engine only. How to determine the output of your power pack is easy. On the back there is usually a rating like 17VA. That means 17 volt/amps. So what is that? You are operating at 12 volts, so divide the 17 VA by 12 and you get a power rating of approximately 1.41 amps. The MRC Control Master 20 units I used are rated at 85VA or 7.08 amps. Now you take this figure and divide it by the average loco draw from above and you will get the theoretical number of locos you can run with that power pack. Phew! But wait! Now you have to deduct all those interior car lights. They also draw from the power available. As to your question about what to get to run G scale, get a pack designed for G. The MRC CM20 will work as well as other specifically designed power packs for G that have a higher VA output. Today, heat is not as much a problem since all the newer packs are printed circuit and not wound resistor throttles. What MRC units are you using now? For the answer to the face/reverse running; a DC motor has a plus side and a negative side. The industry standard for model DC locos is that the "right hand or engineer side of the rail is positive" and the left is negative. A DC motor does not know this and thinks that which ever side of the motor or loco is on the right side is getting the positive feed. So, one engine facing forward will get the positive feed from the right and the other, the reverse loco, will get the positive feed from the right, but it thinks it is getting that feed from the left. So one motor in this sense will run clockwise (ie: forward) and the other will run counter-clockwise (ie: reverse) and as a result both will run in the same direction. Hope this helps. Long winded again. B-)
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Lee, You have not answered my question yet as to what power packs you are using. Hopefully I explained how the engines run face/backwards in the same direction. Let me know how I did and if I can help you further with a specific problem. Since you are now into On30, talk to me. I have a bit of experience in that scale now and may be able to assist you, both with DC and DCC. Just holler and I'll be there. B-)
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Pete Thanks for that very informative post. I need to upgrade as my MRC 1300s just can't cut it with up to four trains with 3 engine consists running. I do trip the breaker on the throttle sometimes when there is a lot of traffic too. Punk
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Punkmaster of the FTLS, Now is the time to look for a couple of MRC Control Master 20s or go DCC. The older CM20 has 85 VA and the newer ones have 100 VA. I might suggest a couple of MRC 9500 units that have built in amp and volt meters and 30 VA each. Of course you can also find the new MRC Tech4 units on ebay and mail order. Save your 1300s for lighting circuits and AC power for accessories like annimation and switch motors. I'm keeping my two remaining CM20s for lighting on the On30 layout. B-)
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Thanks Pete I'll check out the auctions you sent me. I'm going to stick with DC due to the too many engines syndrome,LOL Punk
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

As long as we're on the subject. I run my Atlas remote turnouts off the AC, correct? Since I have 4 power pacs now, would you suggest I run them on a separate one? .....probably the oldest "smallest" one? I will be running the other three power pacs (do I call them "Cabs"?) for my motive power; outer main, inner main and my trolley route, when I put it in. Marc
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Pete, I think I see the answer in post #5....sorry for the duplication. Marc
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Marc, Running the switch motors off one AC power pack will prevent a sudden drain of power to your locos. That is why I suggested a dedicated pack for AC use. If you throw a switch, the AC grabs a lot of juice, and the engines might slow down briefly. Not really bad, but just looks annoying. Cabs is correct. Referring to the Cab of the locomotive where the crew rides. B-)
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Pete, Thanks for confirming my thoughts. When I was running a whole layout from one power pack, I noticed that throwing a turnout would cause the locos to "bog" and the house lights to dim. Would you further suggest that I shop another "cheapy" P/P to dedicate to the lighting as well? Marc
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Marc Pete is right. I once hooked all the lights up while running trains then threw the switch. It was like in the movies when the executioner throws the switch and all the lights dim! Punk
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Lights take a lot of power. Just add up you building lights to see how much power you will need. The average load is 20 to 30ma. Making the math easy let's say 25ma each. Therefore, 40 lamps would be equal to 1000ma or 1 amp. A 17va power pack is equal to 1.42 amps. An N scale loco draws .75 amp. If you have 40 lamps as above, your engine will not run well or at all. Doing the reverse, take any power pack you have,figure out the amps available, multiply that by 1000 to get milliamps and divide that figure by the average 25ma which will show you that a 17va power pack will power approximately 56 lamps. And it doesn't matter if you use the DC or AC side to power the lamps. I prefer to use the DC side and not turn the power past 75%. The bulbs are not fully bright, but they last forever. The above figures are for 12-16 volt lamps that will be lite separately. If you are using 1.5 volt lamps, you will have to put a resitor in line with the lamps or run 8 of them in series to get up to 12V combined load. Stick with the 12V bulbs. Easier figuring. All this boils down to my preference to get the biggest power supply you can. Long winded again.......... B-) & :x
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

What do you make of this? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=487&item=5955068273&rd=1 Can it be "unmodified externally" to run accessories? Marc
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Pete: Okay, I finally remembered to pull all my transformer information together. My olde standard is a Troller Autopulse Momentum 1, it is from the 70s but a great unit; its plate reads Output - 12VA, 18VDC. My newer unit is a MRC Tech II 1500; its plate reads Output - 20VDC, 17VAC, 22VDC, total 12 VA. So it appears that these units would work fine for my On30 units as long as I power other electrical draws from an auxiliary power pack. Right? I did do some investigation before on N scale engines and I found that at the fastest I ran my engines, I was only using a maximum of 8 volts. If I find the same thing with the On30 engines (I actually envision running them even slower than the N scale for a low voltage draw), do I have a higher power rating to work with? Like something closer to 2 amps? And now the elusive G engine I am still shopping around for. The Bachmann G power packs are listed with an output of 17VDC and a max. output of 11VA. Does it seem likely that the B-mann is figuring that their engines are run at alot less than 12 volts? Keep going Pete and I'll try my best to keep up. Lee in Tucson
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Power Pack Transformers - Need some help

Marc I have been running three MRC 1300 throttles. They don't have a lot of power for running a lot of engines but would work great for lights. I just use the old cheap ones from sets for the lights. Unmodified 1300s are going for around $15 new on E-bay. Punk
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