Why are **bad ESN** phones allowed to be sold on eBay?

[sdlovell]

These phones are, by definition, phones which have been identified by the carrier as stolen, lost, activated on another persons account, etc. I don't see how selling stolen property on eBay is a viable means of handing off these devices.

Yes, in some cases it's possible that phones can be flashed to other networks to get around the bad ESN tag and therefore still be used for their intended purpose, but it doesn't make any sense that eBay is allowing the auctions of so many devices with the bad ESN tag.

Require that the ESN status of each device be laid out and establish guidelines for selling cell phones. The carriers aren't all that helpful, but if a third party could get involved and guide or guarantee that the buyer won't be stuck with a non-working device, then we'd all be a little bit happier.

[ravensfan2001]

A simplistic solution; designate as follows;

Seller guarantees the ESN as follows;

Bad ESN - lien

Bad ESN - lost

Bad ESN - stolen

Clean ESN

Ebay should have a drill down category, like they do for most items, and the seller MUST chose one of the previous categories. If they list it as Clean and it turns out not to be, they are obviously responsible for a full refund, shipping included.

Cell companies know whether the ESN is bad because the owner has lost it or reported it stolen and they most certainly know if the bill has not been paid.

I bought one that was listed as new. Turns out it was a bad ESN. A quick dispute with Paypal was ruled in my favor. But I am out the $12.50 to ship the phone back. That sucks.

Verizon said that the phone was lost or stolen. They would know if the owner reported it stolen. If they would clarify that with me, I could have called the local police to the seller and reported them (not sure if the local police would do anything).

Obviously this is an issue Ebay needs to address. A simple mandatory categorzation of the ESN number by the seller should help to alleviate buyers concerns.

Agreed. I recently purchased an iPhone that has a bad ESN and the seller did not disclose that. And when I contacted him, he said that I must be the one doing something wrong. Lol!

[gporpc]

RE:

But I am out the $12.50 to ship the phone back.

Why did it cost that much to send back....

USPS PM FRE is $4.80

[ibmrloon]

Common Scene (unjustified actions): It seems that if you did not pay your bill, then you did not fulfill your contract, so the carrier still owns the phone. Thus it was stolen from the carrier and it is still selling a stolen phone. Who would want a phone that had a bad flash or damaged hardware..... this would be a damaged phone. Either way something is wrong with the policy of allowing the sale of "bad ESN" phones, whether it is disclosed in the description or not.

[cellstepllc]

www.CheckESNFree.com offers a free service to check against the most popular CDMA carriers in the USA.

[ut.vols]

Scout your buys first and put them on your watch list. Send each one a messages asking if the phone is clean. NEVER bid if it doesn't say it's clean. If in the description it says the phone works perfectly, then you have a way to get your money back thru a dispute. The item was to differ to be deemed "not as described" READ CAREFULLY grasshopper, then READ AGAIN.

It's better to pass up a good deal than buy without asking that important question because it closes in the next hour. You should ask a question at least 1-2 days before it ends. If no answer, no bid. I sometimes piss some sellers off. But I get exactly what I bid on. No surprises.B-)

[soliddealsonline]

Common Scene (unjustified actions): It seems that if you did not pay your bill, then you did not fulfill your contract, so the carrier still owns the phone. Thus it was stolen from the carrier and it is still selling a stolen phone. Who would want a phone that had a bad flash or damaged hardware..... this would be a damaged phone. Either way something is wrong with the policy of allowing the sale of "bad ESN" phones, whether it is disclosed in the description or not.

This is incorrect - the carrier does not own the phone.  Buying a cell phone with a contract is not the same as buying a car and making monthly payments.  If you buy a cell phone with a contract and do not complete your contract term, you will owe the carrier an early termination fee; the carrier does not own and will not attempt to repossess the phone.

Many people would want a cell phone with a bad flash or damaged hardware - it can be used for parts, or repaired and resold for a profit.

Of course, the seller is obligated to describe all defects with the phone (including a bad ESN), but there is nothing wrong with selling these phones as long as the seller does not reasonably believe it was stolen.

[itdesigns.eu]

It so funny to see all the "technician" here with a claim that a bad ESN can mean a failure in a firmware flash 😄 I can assure you - if the carrier identifies a phone as "bad ESN" it has NOTHING to do with a hardware or firmware failure. Don't forget that reprogramming the phone's IMEI or ESN is ILLEGAL - so that would rule out "firmware flash failure" too.

Also, international law practices identify a lost property which was kept or sold - equally as the one stolen. So that rule out the guy with "carrier don't identify which is it - lost or stolen".

Another case is an owner still have an unpaid bill/contract on that phone. Which means that the carrier has rights to confiscate or disable the phone (RTFC!!!) or file a legal claim. In any of these cases - you don't have the right to sell your (own) phone with bad esn tag.

All said - no doubt - bad ESN - ILLEGAL to sell. And ebay which is allowing has become a grey market.

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? BAD ESN - NO GOOD TO KEEP OR SELL - CONTACT YOUR PROVIDER FIRST!

[tzudhonym]

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? BAD ESN - NO GOOD TO KEEP OR SELL

Yes, let's fill up the landfills with phone that can easily be used for parts or, in the case of smartphones, as fully functioning media players/internet browsers without cell serivce.

Like it or not, it is not illegal to sell or possess a phone with a bad ESN and these phones do have market value.

[marilunietoposts2012]

Unbelievable that on a reputable company there are stolen item sales.  This happened to me once and I finally tracked down who had stolen my phone and where they sold it.  I reported to the police and to TMobile but guess what?  They did nothing. There are a lot of dishonest people out there and unfortunately they have a clear runway to continue to do their ilegal practices.

Phone Numbers Look Up

Phone Look Up

[soliddealsonline]

Unbelievable that on a reputable company there are stolen item sales.  This happened to me once and I finally tracked down who had stolen my phone and where they sold it.  I reported to the police and to TMobile but guess what?  They did nothing. There are a lot of dishonest people out there and unfortunately they have a clear runway to continue to do their ilegal practices.

...

Selling stolen items is not permitted on eBay, never has been, and never will be.  Like any avenue of sales (including eBay), there will always be people who try to sell stolen items.

A bad ESN does not necessarily mean that a cell phone is stolen.

Also, a T-Mobile phone would never have a "bad ESN", since it is a GSM phone which is SIM card based, and the "ESN" is essentially stored in the SIM card.

[gporpc]

RE:

Also, a T-Mobile phone would never have a "bad ESN", since it is a GSM phone which is SIM card based, and the "ESN" is essentially stored in the SIM card.

Tmobiles, which are GSM and other GSM's

have an IMEI number which is essentialy an ESN number,

and serves the same purpose.

[gporpc]

google on

what is an imei number

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=what+is+an+imei+number&oq=what+is+an+imei&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_l=hp.1.0.0l10.1944l13038l0l16850l23l15l0l0l0l0l253l2170l1j12j2l15l0.frgbld.

[soliddealsonline]

RE:

Also, a T-Mobile phone would never have a "bad ESN", since it is a GSM phone which is SIM card based, and the "ESN" is essentially stored in the SIM card.

Tmobiles, which are GSM and other GSM's

have an IMEI number which is essentialy an ESN number,

and serves the same purpose.

In the USA, I'm rather certain that there are no GSM carriers that utilize IMEI blocking.  If I am incorrect, please feel free to point me to an authoritative source which says otherwise.

[nancyratliff]

The last of the previously unused ESN codes were allocated in November 2008. Applications for assignments were accepted until June 30, 2010 using reclaimed ESN codes, those previously assigned to AMPS or TDMA phones and therefore not present on CDMA2000 systems. Reclaimed codes have also been used for UIMID assignments. Codes are assigned according to industry guidelines. Although ESN assignments may still occur in the future based on applications received before June 30, 2010, there have not been any assignments made since December 31, 2010.

[nancyratliff]

The last of the previously unused ESN codes were allocated in November 2008. Applications for assignments were accepted until June 30, 2010 using reclaimed ESN codes, those previously assigned to AMPS or TDMA phones and therefore not present on CDMA2000 systems. Reclaimed codes have also been used for UIMID assignments. Codes are assigned according to industry guidelines. Although ESN assignments may still occur in the future based on applications received before June 30, 2010, there have not been any assignments made since December 31, 2010.