eBay

sdlovell · ‎02-03-2011

These phones are, by definition, phones which have been identified by the carrier as stolen, lost, activated on another persons account, etc. I don't see how selling stolen property on eBay is a viable means of handing off these devices.

Yes, in some cases it's possible that phones can be flashed to other networks to get around the bad ESN tag and therefore still be used for their intended purpose, but it doesn't make any sense that eBay is allowing the auctions of so many devices with the bad ESN tag.

Require that the ESN status of each device be laid out and establish guidelines for selling cell phones. The carriers aren't all that helpful, but if a third party could get involved and guide or guarantee that the buyer won't be stuck with a non-working device, then we'd all be a little bit happier.

gporpc · ‎01-04-2012

Here is a solution. They could require the seller to post the ESN of "BAD ESN" phones. Also, have a way to report ESN of stolen phones to ebay. So if a phone with a stolen ESN is posted whoever reported it would be notified. To prevent theifs from using a bogus ESN, the review process could request the ESN from the buyer and also check whether it is stolen.

Ridiculous....

eBay is not going to check serial numbers to determine anything.

It is just not going to happen.

For a lousy 50¢ listing they are going to spend many dollars only to end it, I don't think so.

tzudhonym · ‎01-08-2012

But an unpaid bill and if the intial contract period has not ended, the phone still belongs to the carrier.

Yeah, good point. Ok, I take back "unpaid bill" as an example of a legal reason why one might have a bad ESN phone.

jbarros2012 · ‎01-20-2012

the phone does not belong to the carrier. if you go through the first 120 days then stop paying they charge you the early terminataion fee. you keep the phone pay what you owe and thats it. if you dont make it past the 120 day period they charge you full price of the phone. you still own it. the only time they ask for it back is when you cancel in the 30 day period at the start of the contract. its not illegal to own a phone with a bad esn, so why would ebay ban them?

fammle · ‎02-02-2012

Here's a question as a buyer:

Is there anything to prevent buying a bad esn smartphone off ebay, never activating it as a phone, and just using it as a mini tablet?

Some of the bad esn smartphones have screens that are 4-5".

Will a bad esn prevent me from downloading new apps and updates?

gporpc · ‎02-02-2012

Here's a question as a buyer:

Is there anything to prevent buying a bad esn smartphone off ebay, never activating it as a phone, and just using it as a mini tablet?

Some of the bad esn smartphones have screens that are 4-5".

Will a bad esn prevent me from downloading new apps and updates?

With no service, it will not work..

But 911 calls will go through as with all cell phones.

kysotidan · ‎02-02-2012

A simplistic solution; designate as follows;

Seller guarantees the ESN as follows;

Bad ESN - lien

Bad ESN - lost

Bad ESN - stolen

Clean ESN

Ebay should have a drill down category, like they do for most items, and the seller MUST chose one of the previous categories. If they list it as Clean and it turns out not to be, they are obviously responsible for a full refund, shipping included.

Cell companies know whether the ESN is bad because the owner has lost it or reported it stolen and they most certainly know if the bill has not been paid.

I bought one that was listed as new. Turns out it was a bad ESN. A quick dispute with Paypal was ruled in my favor. But I am out the $12.50 to ship the phone back. That sucks.

Verizon said that the phone was lost or stolen. They would know if the owner reported it stolen. If they would clarify that with me, I could have called the local police to the seller and reported them (not sure if the local police would do anything).

Obviously this is an issue Ebay needs to address. A simple mandatory categorzation of the ESN number by the seller should help to alleviate buyers concerns.

member825915 · ‎02-02-2012

I buy dozens of Verizon prepaids weekly, as most of you know, a store needs to register (scan the serial number) the phone as

SOLD

if they do not it will not get service......

About 20% do not get the proper activation.....

The distributor knows in a day if that has happened.

They eMail me with the phones that have the issue, I call them and they do what is needed.

If one is sold by me, not properly reigsitered as sold, the buyer gets an error message when they try to get a number on it.....

Those buyers get a message similar to the phone was not correctly processed when sold or it may be stolen.

silent_vamp · ‎02-02-2012

i agree!! they should require the seller to list the MEID or IMEI, that way a buyer can check.

i bought 2 iphones listed as clean esn, now maybe i can be found somewhat at fault for this happening, however, as a seller, it is their responsibility to be honest about the phone. This isnt craigslist, there needs to be more security about items such as these.

gporpc · ‎02-02-2012

These phones are, by definition, phones which have been identified by the carrier as stolen, lost, activated on another persons account, etc. I don't see how selling stolen property on eBay is a viable means of handing off these devices. Yes, in some cases it's possible that phones can be flashed to other networks to get around the bad ESN tag and therefore still be used for their intended purpose, but it doesn't make any sense that eBay is allowing the auctions of so many devices with the bad ESN tag. Require that the ESN status of each device be laid out and establish guidelines for selling cell phones. The carriers aren't all that helpful, but if a third party could get involved and guide or guarantee that the buyer won't be stuck with a non-working device, then we'd all be a little bit happier.

Where would the costs of the intervention come in at.

How much and does eBay add it to the listing fee or what?

tzudhonym · ‎02-16-2012

i agree!! they should require the seller to list the MEID or IMEI, that way a buyer can check.

You mean so that people flashing phones can use them?

annariep · ‎02-21-2012

A bad esn is one thing.....but calling to get it activated to find out it has been reported stolen is another....... so common sence my butt...... if its stolen, it should state STOLEN !!!!!!

jcar21027 · ‎02-21-2012

Is there anything i can do if the seller stated it had a clean esn and i find out that it isnt after purchase? I bought it in aug of 2011 and am just now getting around to activating. The seller has an excellent rating. I dont get it. I even went back to check his selling page and it plainly states that its a clean esn.

christbearesonoftheredking · ‎03-02-2012

The reason is simple this is a no libality sale of questionable goods. First their is no law requiring that they check the esn. Second this is not dirrect ability to assume they are stolen. Thrid many recycling places will accpt a cell phone no questions asked. So if you arrest the recycler then all you are doing is making it so that instead of selling on ebay they would just sell it locally. Most likely all that would happen if it was illegalized is simple they would cell the phones for parts only, then scratch off the ESN. Either A you catch a few dozen theif while greatly increasing the price of replacement parts or you allow this type of thing to happen.

soliddealsonline · ‎03-05-2012

As had been said more than once, bad ESN phones are likely to be stolen but not necessarily stolen. ESNs could be bad as the result of a bad flash, an unpaid bill, or even hardware damage.

As someone who has a lot of experience selling cell phones, let me address a few things that have been stated in this thread.

1. As noted by tlsales297, "bad ESN" cell phones are NOT necessarily stolen. I don't know if there are statistics available, but the vast majority of cell phones that I have encountered that have a bad ESN have it due to the fact that they are still attached to the owner's account. This is either due to the fact that the original owner was fed up with their current carrier and switched carriers, or they had a billing dispute with the carrier and cancelled service without paying the early termination fee, or they got behind on their bill.

2. Cell phones are purchased, NOT leased. This leads me to believe that the cell phone is therefore not the property of the carrier, even if the service was cancelled before the contract was up. The owner will owe the cell phone company an early termination fee, but that is between the owner and the cell phone company (and maybe a credit reporting agency).

3. It is not a good idea for sellers to post ESNs in listings, as there are people who can (illegally) take the ESN and use it for another phone (without buying the phone in the listing).

4. Hardware damage or software damage (bad flashing, etc.) does not have anything to do with whether an ESN is clear or not. The only thing that affects whether an ESN is clear for activation is it's status in the carrier's records. A broken screen will need to be repaired, but it will not cause a bad ESN.

5. Most cell phone companies will not tell you whether the phone is reported "lost" or reported "stolen"; they will only tell you that it has been reported "lost or stolen". Because of this, I do not intentionally sell a phone which has been reported "lost or stolen", since I can't tell which it is.

6. Apps and updates will work on many phones with a bad ESN, provided it has wifi access. This will depend upon whether the carrier requires an active data/cellular connection to download or check for updates, or whether they distribute them over the internet (such as Samsung does with Kies Mini). As long as you have a wifi connection, you should not have any problem logging in to Android Market, for example, and downloading apps.

I don't intend to sound rude with this posting, but there is a lot of misinformation and assumptions that are being posted as facts, so hopefully this will help to clarify. Please feel free to verify any of the points I have stated above with an authoritative source and correct me if I am wrong.

tzudhonym · ‎03-06-2012

4. Hardware damage or software damage (bad flashing, etc.) does not have anything to do with whether an ESN is clear or not. The only thing that affects whether an ESN is clear for activation is it's status in the carrier's records. A broken screen will need to be repaired, but it will not cause a bad ESN.

I suppose it's not technically the same thing as a bad ESN but a failed flash or a damaged baseband chip will essentially render a phone's ESN useless as the phone won't be able to be activated. Phones like this are often listed as "Bad ESN."