Why does Ebay feel compelled to dictate the durational terms of my best-offer?

[kingofthewind]

I try to get along within the Ebay system of heavy-handedness and caprice, but sometimes it gets ridiculous. I could talk about the days when I, as the buyer, used to be able to choose a method of payment. Then that changed to what was essentially, "use Paypal or go to blazes". That was irritating. Then there was the charging commission on what a seller charges for shipping?  Absurd.

But tonight really takes the cake when it comes to Ebay's almost complete control over the terms of agreements between principals. I rarely make best-offers on items, as I have had less than successful results from doing so. I have offered 10% under the asking price and get back a counter-offer that is 9% above that. I find it odd that sellers put best-offer options in their auction if they're not going to entertain reasonable offers.

Generally when I put in a "best-offer" on something, I also add a note that says that I can revoke the offer any time prior to acceptance. This, my friends, is contract law 101-A. A buyer, especially one who is not a merchant (It may be different betweein merchants under the Uniform Commercial Code.), can revoke an offer any time prior to acceptance. So why does Ebay feel compelled to disgard centuries of reasonable business practices, established by years of convention, and say MY offer is good for "X" amount of days (Whether I, offeror, like it or not.)? 

Before putting in my offer I had noted that there is a retraction link for a buyer to retract an offer through Ebay's system. For that reason I didn't add my usual term to the best offer. Then tonight I go to that link, hit it, and find out that Ebay has put restrictions, three arbitrary choices, whereby I can retract without some sort of Ebay punishment.). Hey, Ebay, what about because I feel like revoking an offer not yet accepted? I can't see any good reason for EBay to control this aspect of my offer's terms? There are many reasons a buyer may want to revoke an offer that doesn't fall into Ebay's three listed excuses. 

EBay has gotten away with lots of ills over the years by claiming that they are merely a venue. Do they still make that claim when challenged?  That they are merely a venue that tells buyers how long their offers are good. what sort of payments they must accept, etc. Like many, I have just about had it. However, since my offer's duration has been (rather opaquely) dictated by Ebay, the mere venue (rolleyes), I'll let it go until it expires, which is early tomorrow, but I will never neglect to put my standard veribiage in my offer, "Offer good until "X" date and time, or until revoked by offeror prior to acceptance."  I shouldn't have to put that in there; I should just be able to revoke/retract any time prior to acceptance,  based on contract law. If Ebay was truly just the venue they have claimed to be since the beginning, they would not dictate such fundamental terms of MY offer.  Vent over. But I will remember it.

[kingofthewind]

As usual, none of the seller-centric Ebay community posters saw fit to answer my question, but rather saw fit to abuse the buyer.  Thanks for not telling me anything I didn't know, but withholding any enlightening information.  While I realize that would be a pipe-dream of sorts, I was hopeful.

For clarification, my question was why folks here thought Ebay felt compelled to dictate the durational terms of my best offer. I have a great understanding of contract law, surely much better than most, if not all, of the responders here. Just like the seller dictates how long an auction goes in order to create a time urgency for the buyer to make a good offer, the buyer uses their own urgency-creation, via duration of offer.  If I, as the offeror, don't give the seller enough time, and the offer expires, that's life. This is what the Ebay system takes away from the buyer by dictating however many days they do.

I fully understand the the seller can decline my offer expressly by a message, or by complete inaction.  I have not problem with that. I don't believe it to be unreasonable, as a bona-fide buyer, to expect to have an equal footing on creating urgency. This is how it is is done in the outside-Ebay world, hence my unanswered question. Thanks, minions. Cheers.

Oh, and the most ridiculous answer award, and it was close, goes to jasgib_0. I mean, how many questions posed here are about third-world problems? 

[myangelandmyprincess]

I've studied contract law.   Still have my book. While you are right then when creating a contract you have the right to revoke your offer.  You've already got a contract to abide by Ebays terms. You can't override that contract by putting in your own terms to bypass the contract you already agreed to with eBay.  And as the offering on eBay you don't get to choose how long the offer is good for EBays site already sets that so you don't set that either.  

[buyselljack2016]

@kingofthewind

the answer from eBay

posted by brian.t  -eBay blue    on another thread on the subject:

copied, and pasted

I can definitely provide details about when and why Best Offer may be added to a Fixed Price listing. Best Offer is applied for new or occasional sellers if the item is listed above the recommended price, or does not sell within 8 days. We determine the recommended price based on prices of similar listings sold on eBay over the past 90 days. While we have seen a 10% increase in sales conversion on listings with Best offer, sellers can remove the feature if it's added. If the feature is left on the listing once added, sellers can decline any offer that doesn't meet their minimum selling price. I appreciate you sharing your feedback with us!

[couldabeenworse]

For clarification, my question was why folks here thought Ebay felt compelled to dictate the durational terms of my best offer. I have a great understanding of contract law, surely much better than most, if not all, of the responders here.

LOL.  You don't believe that you and the seller have a contract with eBay that limits what terms you may offer each other through its site?

[kingofthewind]

Again, my original post asked why Ebay felt compelled to dictate, i.e., put that in their contract with me and others, the duration of my offers. I well understand that I have an agreement with Ebay. I just question why they put that it when it is so different from conventional sales contracts.  What harm does it do the buyer and seller to dictate the durational terms of their transactions? What good does it do Ebay? Oh look, my original question is back again. Why?

After all, if Ebay is just a venue, as they claim, I should be able to do was I wish in the terms of my offer. Setting an offer's duration is very fundamental to any buyer.  A seller does the same when they set a BIN price or auction duration. With Ebay dictating how long my offer is good for, etc., I think we must conclude that Ebay isn't just a sales venue anymore, which I would do if I were on the jury. This is a claim that they have made from the beginning. I don't understand how they get away with it with as heavy-handed as they are with buyers and sellers. Again, this first became evident when they started dictating what type of payments could be used/accepted, as if personal, cashier's checks, money orders, were somehow out of the ordinary in the course of private sales.  Ah, Paypal...

As some mentioned here, Ebay had been applying their standard blackjack with sellers when they were forcing them into using a "Best Offer" when they did not want to. At least that's how it seemed to sellers who were venting last year. I wonder how the sellers here thought about those complaints, voiced on this very Community board? I didn't see much in the way of castigation of the sellers for complaining about what they saw as heavy-handedness. There was much more in the way of agreement and commiseration with the complaints. There wasn't as much, "Them's Ebay's rules; Deal with it." This is what I mean when I say that coming to the Community for objective answers to buyer questions seems to be a futile move.

Look at this from the buyer's perspective. What if I need to buy something to have it in 3 days? If I can't make an offer that expires after 12-24 hours, how can I bid on something that says my offer MUST be good for 48 hours, without having to pay a lot for "next day" shipping? I find it unconscionable that I cannot retract my bid, prior to acceptance, if I find another item that will fit my needs and time-frame.  If the seller doesn't like my duration terms, they don't need to respond.  I'm OK with that. Does Ebay say that a seller MUST respond within 48 hours of the receipt of the Best Offer? I think not. Lack of response is an implied response of "I don't accept". What I'm not OK with is a seller not responding for 48 hours, leaving me in the dark, because of Ebay's bizarre policy, and my giving up another opportunity to buy what I need, all prior to acceptance.

Oh, and as far as my contract with Ebay taking precendence over me stating a different duration in my offer than they would, I believe that I would prevail in court if a seller tried to enforce the contract. After all, the sales contract is still actually between buyer and seller, not Ebay and I. When it comes to the law of contracts, I believe there is an heirarchy of expression. #1, strongest, is handwritten. #2 is "typed". #3, the weakest, is boilerplate. I'm certain that the Ebay duration terms would qualify as #3, boilerplate/default. My modification, providing that I am really the buyer in a buyer/seller transaction, would surely qualify as typed, at the very least. In other words my intent was clearly to change the boilerplate terms. While I'm sure that Ebay would rule against me in their hallowed, but rather nutty chambers, any court would surely hold the contract to be unenforceable against me. That is if I said "12 hours" and Ebay's policy/boilerplate says, "48 hours",  and the seller accepts, what I see as a dead offer, 24 hours after my making it.  The judge/arbitrator/court would probably see it as no contract at all, as there was no meeting of the minds, genuine assent, etc. Again, I understand that this doesn't stop Ebay taking a punitive action against me within their venue's confines, but the contract between me and the seller would surely be deemed unenforceable.  Enough bla-bla. Happy transacting.

[mudshark61369]

@kingofthewind,

Maybe noone answered your question because you burried it at the end of paragraph 2, then added two more paragraphs to your diatribe, so it was forgotten.  If that question was the point of what you wrote, It should have been the last thing in your topic.

In answer to your question.  Who knows why ebay makes the rules it does. It is their site and they can make the rules for it. They do not consult us before making them, we have to accept them just as you do. Most of us are unhappy about many things ebay has done, as both buyers and sellers many of which do not make much sense, but we do not try to enforce our own policy on other members. 

[mudshark61369]

@kingofthewind,

Contract law 101,  Once you enter into a contract (Accepting eBay's User Agreement) you cannot unilaterally revise its terms to suit your wants or needs.  

[lintbrush*]

Why?

Because here is the policy spelled out by eBay regarding how best offers work:

https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/buy-now/making-best-offer?id=4019

Here is the user agreement:

 https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259

Here are the rules for buyers:

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/rules-policies-buyers/rules-policies-buyers?id=4206

You have already agreed to a contract - the User Agreement.   Any amendments to the contract have to be agreed to by all parties involved.  A user generated statement (amendment) in a message attached to a best offer simply doesn't make it become a valid contract without acceptance from the other party involed.

If you know contract law, you know that all parties of a contract have to agree to said contract and amendements/addendums,  in order for it to be valid.   

All you are doing is submitting proposed [unenforceable] additional terms which can be accepted or rejected.  As a matter of law, they are not valid until accepted.

[rolenboy01]

I'm not sure where you get the idea that the sellers don't entertain resonable offers perhaps they just don't entertain offers from YOU.

[thatsallfolks]

eBay dictates the terms because:

1) they can

2) if they didn't, people would put ridiculously short time constraints on their offers

3) eBay realizes that its sellers often aren't full-time businesses, and may not see an offer for a day.

You can easily INCREASE the duration artificially by sending the same offer again after it has expired.

[couldabeenworse]

I well understand that I have an agreement with Ebay.

Hopefully that means that we are in agreement that all this "contract 101" talk is pointless.

What harm does it do the buyer and seller to dictate the durational terms of their transactions? What good does it do Ebay

If eBay allowed the buyer to set a shorter duration, they would either have to support it by adjusting their programming, or deal with endless complaints when eBay and seller show an Accepted Offer and buyer says "nuh-uh".  At present, eBay doesn't think enough buyers are so passionate about the issue as to make a change.  Perhaps they will consider it in the future; the current system was put in place before the average user was hard-wired to the internet 24/7.

Oh, and as far as my contract with Ebay taking precendence over me stating a different duration in my offer than they would, I believe that I would prevail in court if a seller tried to enforce the contract.

Dang!  I thought we had put that behind us.  Suffice it to say that I doubt that a court would close its eyes to the workings of Best Offer just because you had introduced a conflicting term. 

[thatsallfolks]

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@couldabeenworse wrote:

or deal with endless complaints when eBay and seller show an Accepted Offer and buyer says "nuh-uh". 

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Sorry, you completely lost me there. How is that related to a shorter duration?

[castlemagicmemories]

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@kingofthewind wrote:

I try to get along within the Ebay system of heavy-handedness and caprice, but sometimes it gets ridiculous. I could talk about the days when I, as the buyer, used to be able to choose a method of payment. Then that changed to what was essentially, "use Paypal or go to blazes". That was irritating. Then there was the charging commission on what a seller charges for shipping?  Absurd.

But tonight really takes the cake when it comes to Ebay's almost complete control over the terms of agreements between principals. I rarely make best-offers on items, as I have had less than successful results from doing so. I have offered 10% under the asking price and get back a counter-offer that is 9% above that. I find it odd that sellers put best-offer options in their auction if they're not going to entertain reasonable offers.

Generally when I put in a "best-offer" on something, I also add a note that says that I can revoke the offer any time prior to acceptance. This, my friends, is contract law 101-A. A buyer, especially one who is not a merchant (It may be different betweein merchants under the Uniform Commercial Code.), can revoke an offer any time prior to acceptance. So why does Ebay feel compelled to disgard centuries of reasonable business practices, established by years of convention, and say MY offer is good for "X" amount of days (Whether I, offeror, like it or not.)? 

Before putting in my offer I had noted that there is a retraction link for a buyer to retract an offer through Ebay's system. For that reason I didn't add my usual term to the best offer. Then tonight I go to that link, hit it, and find out that Ebay has put restrictions, three arbitrary choices, whereby I can retract without some sort of Ebay punishment.). Hey, Ebay, what about because I feel like revoking an offer not yet accepted? I can't see any good reason for EBay to control this aspect of my offer's terms? There are many reasons a buyer may want to revoke an offer that doesn't fall into Ebay's three listed excuses. 

EBay has gotten away with lots of ills over the years by claiming that they are merely a venue. Do they still make that claim when challenged?  That they are merely a venue that tells buyers how long their offers are good. what sort of payments they must accept, etc. Like many, I have just about had it. However, since my offer's duration has been (rather opaquely) dictated by Ebay, the mere venue (rolleyes), I'll let it go until it expires, which is early tomorrow, but I will never neglect to put my standard veribiage in my offer, "Offer good until "X" date and time, or until revoked by offeror prior to acceptance."  I shouldn't have to put that in there; I should just be able to revoke/retract any time prior to acceptance,  based on contract law. If Ebay was truly just the venue they have claimed to be since the beginning, they would not dictate such fundamental terms of MY offer.  Vent over. But I will remember it.

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You can put whatever you want in there, but Ebay is not going to honor it and the seller won't, either.  If you don't want to abide by the terms Ebay sets, don't use it.  But if you do use it, you are bound by Ebay rules.  And I doubt you will find much success in your offers if sellers are turned off and perceive you to be difficult, which they very well might.

The rules of this site apply here.