Shill bidding activity, with email and auction screenshots

[cutensk8n]

I think I'm being shilled in an auction that ends in about 11 hours. I've reported it to eBay via the online interface, but I wanted to ask the community and provide screenshots from my email to see if I'm overreacting. It's quite a bit of money, and I'm a bit irritated with all of it.

Backstory - there was no action on this auction up to my initial bid. Then last night I was outbid on it (time of email: 9:43 CDT): 

Email screenshot #1: 

Please note the new highest bidder's stats: 

Okay, fine. Then this email arrives at 9:47, informing me that the bid has been retracted and that I am once again the highest bidder: 

Being a bit of an idiot, I went and increased my max bid, and what happened? The same (?) person bid again, and magically my bid went up to just under my max bid:

Here's the bidding history for this person, please note that this is the first auction they've ever bid on, and wow, they know how to retract a bid? 

What do you guys think? Obviously, I've saved everything I can with the identifying information to send to eBay if needed, and I'm hoping they DO need it because this really looks fishy to me. Advice?

Thank you.

[seek-the-unique]

Hello,  It is possible that there is shill bidder in that auction.  There are plenty of them out there and it's good you reported it.

What I do to avoid this (as a buyer) is I use a 3rd party auction sniper to put in my maximum bid in the last 5 seconds of the auction.  That way people don't mess with me and I end up getting things much cheaper than if I would have bid earlier.  Just a thought.

[cutensk8n]

Thank you so much - I thought I was crazy. I contacted the seller with the same in formation and seller actually agrees with me and is cancelling the auction. It was just too fishy. Thanks!

[scga912]

It's very hard to make heads or tails with all of your redactions.  There is no indication that the other bidder retracted their bid - rather it was cancelled.

Were you the one who bid them up to $149?  It looks like they only bid once.

If there are only 2 bidders, you and them, and their single bid was cancelled, then doesn't your bid go back down to the minimum?

[scga912]

The seller can't cancel it.  It's received bids and there are less than 12 hours left.

Even if it were more than 12 hours left, cancelling it would cost him $10 in selling fees.

[lja440]

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@cutensk8n wrote:

I think I'm being shilled in an auction that ends in about 11 hours. I've reported it to eBay via the online interface, but I wanted to ask the community and provide screenshots from my email to see if I'm overreacting. It's quite a bit of money, and I'm a bit irritated with all of it.

Backstory - there was no action on this auction up to my initial bid. Then last night I was outbid on it (time of email: 9:43 CDT): 

Email screenshot #1: 

Please note the new highest bidder's stats: 

Okay, fine. Then this email arrives at 9:47, informing me that the bid has been retracted and that I am once again the highest bidder: 

Being a bit of an idiot, I went and increased my max bid, and what happened? The same (?) person bid again, and magically my bid went up to just under my max bid:

Here's the bidding history for this person, please note that this is the first auction they've ever bid on, and wow, they know how to retract a bid? 

What do you guys think? Obviously, I've saved everything I can with the identifying information to send to eBay if needed, and I'm hoping they DO need it because this really looks fishy to me. Advice?

Thank you.

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It would be easier to see if you didn't black out everything, those are just place holder ID's anyway, we can't even tell what is yours. 

[cutensk8n]

No, I didn't bid them up to $149 at all - that is the other bidder, whose original bid was cancelled by the seller, which took my bid back down. I increased my max bid, and then the bid went up to the price it is now RIGHT AFTERWARD. If the emails and screens are laid out in order with no redactions, my concerns make sense.

 The redactions are in place because it showed my email address. 

I appreciate your comments.

[posting*master · Accepted solution]

I don't see any evidence of shill bidding.

The bid shows as canceled, not retracted, which means it was canceled by the seller. Apparently the seller failed to put this member on their blocked-bidder list, because they re-bid the same amount.

The other bidder clearly has been in other transactions; they have 2 feedback. Their 100% with this seller is based on their activity in the past 30 days not their entire history. 

[cutensk8n]

Thank you, I appreciate your time in explaining. It still looks odd to me, but no big. Thanks again.

[woodland_gnome]

That the intital bid (or bids, when a bid is retracted before the last 12 hours or a bid is cancelled at any time before the auction ends all bids by that bidder are removed but it only shows as one cancellation/retraction with information on only 1 bid, which I presume to be the highest bid removed) was cancelled rather than retracted with a new bid by the same bidder under the leader's max would normally be very suspicious,

BUT in this case the timing reduces that suspicion:  it looks more like the seller cancelled a bid (or bids) by a low feedback bidder and the bidder came back THE NEXT DAY and entered the same maximum bid (which was less than an increment more than the minimum bid at that point).  The bid of the leader at the time of the rebid was placed AFTER the retraction, so nothing was revealed of the hidden maximum of that leader by the prior bid, and the new bidder didn't nibble up to try to find it after the $149.00 bid failed to show that it was maxxed out.  

In this case it seems more likely that the newbie bid on an aucition knowing how much s/he was willing to bid ($149.00), came back the next day to find his/her bid missing, and whether or not s/he noticed the cancellation put the bid back. It used to be against the rules to do that,* but was never impossible unless the bidder was blocked, but the rules have changed and it is allowed (again, unless the bidder is blocked).

The only remaining question is why the seller didn't also cancel the new bid by the cancelled bidder (or block the bidder, but not all sellers use the BBL and in any case if it were cancelled solely due to low feedback that is something that will change and the seller could be willing to let them bid if it does) and there are 2 possiblilities on that that are more likely than active shilling by the seller:  1) Seller hasn't seen it yet and/or 2) since it's not in the leading position seller may not care.

It's "possible" that any of the bids other than yours might be a shill (for that matter it's "possible" that you could be hiding that you are shilling for the seller and are posting to throw the shill police off your scent) but I don't think there is anything warranting more than the most minimal suspicion.

*ETA:  used to be against the rules to rebid on an auction where the seller had cancelled your bid(s) without the permisssion of the seller.

[mudshark61369]

cute...,

What I noticed in your screen shots, is that you never clicked on the Show automatic bids feature.  If you had, the time stamps on the other bidder's bids might give you a clue, if more than one showed the same time.  That would mean an automatic bid had been placed prior to yours. 

One possible reason the seller did not block the other bidder after the cancelation, might be if the other bidder contacted the seller because they mistyped an automatic bid, contacted the seller who canceled the bid, and allowed them to rebid with the correct amount.

You may be outbid again since there are 10 watchers for the item.

[redbud_farm]

"....and seller actually agrees with me and is cancelling the a...."

Lol, if it's shilling why would seller agree with you that it is.

Shilling means the seller is bidding on their own item or having someone do it to raise the price .

[posting*master]

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@mudshark61369 wrote:

... One possible reason the seller did not block the other bidder after the cancelation, might be if the other bidder contacted the seller because they mistyped an automatic bid, contacted the seller who canceled the bid, and allowed them to rebid with the correct amount. ...

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The canceled bid and the rebid are both for $149.00.

[cocos.curiosities5]

I even thought about how easy this would be to do before.

Get a friend or 2 with fake ebay accounts who are willing to bid on items to get the highest price pulled out of the bidders who have already placed a bid.  Then to pull the bid and you once again get stuck beating your own bid for the second time.  What a **bleep**ty guy.

I would definately not buy from the seller in the future.  This is not a coincedence.  Its too easy to arrange.  

[redbud_farm]

Oh , you have friends willing to commit a felony for you to make a few bucks?

It wasn't shilling and op even gives you the proof,lol.