eBay

countrymouse007 · ‎07-31-2019

I bought a $2,000 sewing machine on Ebay and spend an additional $196.61 on shipping. I didn't question the shipping, because if they paid to have it packed and insured it, that sounded to me like what it might cost.

The machine arrived with NO packing anywhere in the box! There was even a Strap in the case that the machine itself could have been secured with, they didn't even use that, and it was right there, no extra cost! The machine itself is damaged along with another item in the box, that goes with the machine. The seller is trying to blame FedEx, and me, and everybody else, and will accept no responsibility for the lack of packing entirely. They don't want to give me a refund, because their policy is "no returns". This is a delicate machine with a lot of moving parts, and it was expensive. They want to offer me $200 for the damage. I don't want to do that. The machine was shipped threaded, there is likely internal damage I don't even know about.

I have filed a claim with Ebay, but the seller seems confident that I won't be getting my money back.

I have bought hundreds of things on Ebay, and never a problem.

This seller even said that they would have gladly packed it if they had known they were supposed to. Do we, as buyers need to babysit sellers like this, or shouldn't they know their responsibilities as sellers before they list items on Ebay?

I don't know how this is going to turn out, but I am not happy.

Here is my question: If Ebay finds in my favor, and I ship the item back, can the seller claim damage that I didn't see and claim, to say I shouldn't get all of the refund?

the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth · ‎08-01-2019

Whether or not the seller accepts returns is irrelevant in a SNAD case. Seller WILL be accepting the return. There is no reason on this planet that the OP should process this as a regular remorse return.

iaintdoingit · ‎08-01-2019

@soh.maryl wrote:
"Be that as it may, I think we all hate to see a transaction end this way for anyone."
I beg to differ. I do feel bad for this buyer because of all they are going to have to go through with what should have been a smooth and seamless transaction, plus the anxiety of having a seller tell them that eBay wont't support their claim.
The seller? Not so much. Yes, people do make mistakes. But to not own up to it and taunt the buyer with the idea that it may be resolved in the seller's favor? Any shred of sympathy I might have had for him flew out the window at that point.

If I have the correct seller their feedback is 6 and have 4 items sold in the last couple of weeks. I would say that this seller 'is' getting a very expensive education!

Seller since 09/20/01 ~~ this is my posting ID.

iaintdoingit · ‎08-01-2019

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:
Whether or not the seller accepts returns is irrelevant in a SNAD case. Seller WILL be accepting the return. There is no reason on this planet that the OP should process this as a regular remorse return.

I agree with you 100% about the SNAD case. It was mentioned about the seller having free returns and I posted what I found on the listing.

Seller since 09/20/01 ~~ this is my posting ID.

soh.maryl · ‎08-01-2019

You have 60 days to leave feedback, and you are not even required to leave it at all.

You should wait til this has all been resolved before making that decision.

soh.maryl · ‎08-01-2019

And, yes, for sellers who either don't read the rules via the Seller Information Center, or perhaps did read the rules, but believe they are immune to them, education is often very expensive.

berserkerplanet · ‎08-01-2019

>>>>At what point do I leave feedback?
>>You have 60 days to leave feedback, and you are not even required to leave it at all.
>>You should wait til this has all been resolved before making that decision.

^^^^^^^^^^
This.

fab_finds4u · ‎08-01-2019

@berserkerplanet

>>From what I have read on these message boards, if the seller has a NO RETURNS policy, then you may
>>be given a 100% refund and not even required to return the item.

Then you need to read again. Anyone claiming that doesn't know what they are talking about.

Whoever said that certainly does know what they're talking about.

If the seller refuses to accept a return or provide a return label eBay can refund and not require the buyer to return the item. Research all the sellers that complained eBay refunded and the buyer didn't return the item. Read the policy part under the heading "When an item is returned to the seller," and "When an item is not returned to the seller."

If a buyer claims it isn't as described the seller is supposed to resolve the problem no matter what their return policy is. Read how eBay defines what resolves the problem.

"When an item doesn't match the listing description

If a buyer receives an item that doesn't match the listing description, the buyer needs to request a return from My eBay. The seller should address the buyer's concern and offer a solution, such as accepting a return, offering a replacement or refund.

"When an item isn't returned to the seller

In some instances, we may not require that an item be returned to the seller. In these situations, we refund the buyer and may seek reimbursement from the seller, for example if:

The seller chooses not to accept a return request or provide a return shipping label."

berserkerplanet · ‎08-01-2019

>>Research all the sellers that complained eBay refunded and the buyer didn't return the item

Those sellers ignored the return requests ("my spam filter ate the notification" etc)

>>If the seller refuses to accept a return or provide a return label

A seller neither has to accept a return or supply a return label for a remorse return request on a no returns listing.

If the buyer opens a SNAD return, all sellers have to accept the return and provide a return label or lose their item (which is what I said.)

"Offer a solution" applies to MBG scenarios (as it states in the text you quoted)

"When an item isn't returned to a seller" also applies only to MBG scenarios, not "no returns" listings where seller denies a remorse return (as is their right)

You are trying to use MBG policy to prove no-returns sellers have to accept remorse returns or lose their item, and it isn't going to work.

lacemaker3 · ‎08-01-2019

@fab_finds4u wrote:
@berserkerplanet

...

"When an item isn't returned to the seller
In some instances, we may not require that an item be returned to the seller. In these situations, we refund the buyer and may seek reimbursement from the seller, for example if:
The seller chooses not to accept a return request or provide a return shipping label."

As @berserkerplanet mentioned, this only applies for MBG cases, not remorse returns.

In my experience, even if the seller doesn't accept the return, or provide a return shipping label, eBay will provide the shipping label to the buyer, at the seller's expense of course, when the case is escalated. They rarely (never as far as I know) refund without requiring the item to be returned unless eBay can't provide a return shipping label.

The only time I know of when this is the case, is if the seller is in another country.

mr_lincoln · ‎08-01-2019

@countrymouse007 I don't blame you for being furious, you have every right to that! I about fell off my chair with this comment, " ... This seller even said that they would have gladly packed it if they had known they were supposed to. ..." SERIOUSLY? They said that?!? WOW ...

Anyway, a SNAD claim forces the Seller to pay the return shipping and if they decide NOT to honor the refund you can eventually ask eBay to step in ... so you should get you a full refund ... unless, as someone else mentioned they had Free Returns on the listing ... which I doubt based on everything else you stated.

As for an insurnace claim on the Seller's part, if you return it and get your money back they can do whatever they want in that regard but be prepared to be contacted by the carrier to ask you about the item when YOU originally received it ... take some pictures before you ship because in my opinion, an insurance claim by the Seller would be fraudulent since they never packed it properly in the first place ...

I would also think that any money you do not get back through the eBay claim process you might have recourse with your credit card company if that was your funding source ... do a charge back for any outstanding $$ owed to you.

In closing, I sold my grandmother's 1926 Singer Sewing machine with a beautiful wooden Coffin cover, the thing ran like a champ ... I built a wooden base that it sat down inside then used stretch film to wrap it tight to the base. Next I built a wooden crate (thin plywood) around that with hand holes in each end and finally, I made a custom size corrugated box that fit like a glove with hand hold opens in each end, then stapled that to the wooden case, taped over all staples and sealed it up good ... NOTHING, NOTHING moved inside, period. It weight about 48 pounds, shipped halfway across the country, arrived in perfectly undamaged condition ... Buyer could not have been happier.

Regards,
Mr. Lincoln - Community Mentor

countrymouse007 · ‎08-01-2019

I don't want the machine at this point. It is damaged, and will be costly to repair, if it can be repaired. So I hope they give me a label. My question was, if the label doesn't have a provision for insurance, and the seller spots damage that I didn't see, would they be able to come back after me for that? And that question has been answered.

I don't know if the seller insured the shipment to me, they won't answer that question, so my guess is that they didn't. If they did though, my understanding is that if I ship it back to them, the insurance that should cover the damage would be void. I'm still waiting for eBay to hear back from the seller at this point, and hoping for a return lable.

countrymouse007 · ‎08-01-2019

@mr_lincoln ,

Yes they actually said that, and it is right there in the conversation for Ebay to review. I hope they read every word. He said a lot of shocking things. Another one was a reply to my first comment after I opened the box, their reply was:

"Sorry about that. I know I would be feeling the same" then he proceeded to blame FedEx.

berserkerplanet · ‎08-01-2019

>>So I hope they give me a label. My question was, if the label doesn't have a provision for insurance, and the
>>seller spots damage that I didn't see, would they be able to come back after me for that?

They have to give you a label or a refund in a SNAD dispute.

eBay issues return labels do not have insurance and it is not an option. eBay holds the label purchaser responsible for insuring the shipment, and for anything that happens (loss, damage, whatever). For a seller provided label (either their own or eBay issued), loss or damage is the seller's problem.

You are about as golden in this scenario as can be. The item arrived damaged, is therefore SNAD, you opened a SNAD case, and you will be refunded.

mr_lincoln · ‎08-01-2019

@countrymouse007 wrote:
I don't want the machine at this point. It is damaged, and will be costly to repair, if it can be repaired. So I hope they give me a label. My question was, if the label doesn't have a provision for insurance, and the seller spots damage that I didn't see, would they be able to come back after me for that? And that question has been answered.
I don't know if the seller insured the shipment to me, they won't answer that question, so my guess is that they didn't. If they did though, my understanding is that if I ship it back to them, the insurance that should cover the damage would be void. I'm still waiting for eBay to hear back from the seller at this point, and hoping for a return lable.

The seller needs to contact FedEx and ask them how they should proceed with their insurance claim for the damaged item. However, I suspect they will not be paid since there was no internal packaging. The return label from eBay may or may not be a FedEx label ... it may be a USPS label, they get a huge discount on return labels with USPS ... however, they do NOT add insurance to my knowledge.

Regards,
Mr. Lincoln - Community Mentor