eBay

countrymouse007 · ‎07-31-2019

I bought a $2,000 sewing machine on Ebay and spend an additional $196.61 on shipping. I didn't question the shipping, because if they paid to have it packed and insured it, that sounded to me like what it might cost.

The machine arrived with NO packing anywhere in the box! There was even a Strap in the case that the machine itself could have been secured with, they didn't even use that, and it was right there, no extra cost! The machine itself is damaged along with another item in the box, that goes with the machine. The seller is trying to blame FedEx, and me, and everybody else, and will accept no responsibility for the lack of packing entirely. They don't want to give me a refund, because their policy is "no returns". This is a delicate machine with a lot of moving parts, and it was expensive. They want to offer me $200 for the damage. I don't want to do that. The machine was shipped threaded, there is likely internal damage I don't even know about.

I have filed a claim with Ebay, but the seller seems confident that I won't be getting my money back.

I have bought hundreds of things on Ebay, and never a problem.

This seller even said that they would have gladly packed it if they had known they were supposed to. Do we, as buyers need to babysit sellers like this, or shouldn't they know their responsibilities as sellers before they list items on Ebay?

I don't know how this is going to turn out, but I am not happy.

Here is my question: If Ebay finds in my favor, and I ship the item back, can the seller claim damage that I didn't see and claim, to say I shouldn't get all of the refund?

futurespast1113 · ‎08-01-2019

I feel you have nothing to worry about and you will be refunded in full by ebay. Your seller is an ignorant buffoon. In my opinion some sellers have too low an IQ to ship fragile items and think by sticking something in a box and slapping a shipping label on it and writing the words "Fragile" on the box means that he or she has washed their hands of the situation.

With that being said, for the most part a lot of sellers here on ebay do a fabulous job packing antiques and fragile items. I have seen really ingenious and careful packing jobs of fragile items. However, I have seen quite a bit of sellers who have done the most shameful and pitiful packing jobs I have ever seen. I buy expensive fragile antiques and have seen a $1500 crystal glass box wrapped in just a plastic grocery bag for "padding" tossed into a flimsy box with no filler at all. The cardboard box was caved in and smashed and I held my breath opening it. Thank goodness that item miraculously survived. I have also received rare antique porcelain figurines shipped in a cereal box. One genius even decided to ship antique mother of pearl glass opera glasses in a padded envelope with no padding around the glasses. Don't know how it didn't shatter into a million pieces.

The stuff I have seen thrown in boxes with little or no padding has made my jaw drop and I wonder if some people just have absolutely no common sense at all. It has gotten so bad that I made Youtube videos on how to pack fragile items. When I buy fragile antique things I send my seller a link and ask them politely if they can do me a favor and watch these videos before packing my items. Some sellers don't even reply back or even bother to read my polite packing instructions, nor watch my videos. Of those sellers who don't bother replying to me or going through the extra trouble of packing the items correctly, they even have the nerve to get angry when the items arrive broken and I have to file SNADs against them.

Some people just have no business selling certain things on ebay. It's a shame that old sewing machine is now lost to the trash heap of history after it survived all these years. It took one dullard to pack it poorly enough to destroy it. What a shame. SMH. Rant Over, lol.

futurespast1113 · ‎08-01-2019

I am a buyer and a seller and I have seen many atrocious packing jobs over the years of rare, fragile antiques. Some sellers either have no common sense or just don't care about packing items that are breakable. Some people think that by writing the words fragile on the box means that box will not get thrown or tossed and will get the white glove service. Your seller is arrogant in thinking that he can just toss it in a box and not pack it properly, but somehow FedEx is to blame for its demise. He is just about to learn a very expensive lesson. At first I felt bad for him, but when selling certain things it is very important that sellers educate themselves on how to pack expensive and fragile items the right way.

If I sold an antique sewing machine I would not even attempt to pack it myself and pay someone who knows how to do it the right way. I noticed that the heavier the item, the more likely it is going to be broken especially if it does not have suitable packing materials to absorb the shock of being tossed around and thrown. To be honest I wouldn't even dare sell something as fragile and heavy as a sewing machine. That would give me nightmares where I would be quaking in my shoes waiting to find out if it arrived undamaged. And that is even if I paid a professional packer to box it up for me.

As a seller of antiques I go the extra mile to make sure my items reach my buyer in perfect condition. I even pay extra out of my pocket for a professional packing service to pad and wrap my items properly to insure my buyer won't deal with a dissapointment like you did. This guy is going to have to fork over quite a few Benjamins for being ignorant.

fab_finds4u · ‎08-01-2019

I thought we were talking about the OP's BROKEN item here, not a buyers remorse case. MBG doesn't cover remorse returns. The OP 's seller's policy is no returns and that's what I thought the OP was worried about.

fab_finds4u · ‎08-01-2019

As @berserkerplanet mentioned, this only applies for MBG cases, not remorse returns.

And as I mentioned-I thought the OP was taking about a broken item not a remorse claim so what I said was meaningful and needed no correcting. I think I know the policy when the seller doesn't accept returns but the buyer claims it isn't as described. If the seller doesn't accept the return eBay can refund the buyer and not require them to return the item.

countrymouse007 · ‎08-01-2019

The item I have is broken, and unusable, it arrived in this condition, because the seller used NO packaging in the box. A $2,000 sewing machine was loose in a box with the things that went with it. They didnt even use the strap that is part of the case to secure the machine. All things in the box were loose! It came from Idaho to Georgia, and changed trucks many times along the way. It is broken and unusable! This is NOT a buyer's remorse case at all!

berserkerplanet · ‎08-01-2019

>>I thought we were talking about the OP's BROKEN item here, not a buyers remorse case.

The poster I quoted and was responding to said:
>>From what I have read on these message boards, if the seller has a NO RETURNS policy, then you may
>>be given a 100% refund and not even required to return the item.

which is repeating the old wives tale that no returns sellers don't get their items back, conflates a "no returns" returns policy and remorse returns with MBG SNAD returns, and ignores the distinction.

I was attempting to correct/debunk that erroneous info.

countrymouse007 · ‎08-02-2019

I haven't heard anything. It has been 24 hours since I escalated the case and I know Ebay says to give them 48 hours... but my listing says the are still waiting for information from the seller. Does this mean they are waiting for them to send me a label, or should I be getting nervous? During my conversations with the seller, they were blaming everyone but themselves for the damage, trying to minimize the damage, and telling me that it shouldn't be something I can't have fixed. They were telling me it shipped with the warranty, which doesn't transfer to another owner in the first place, and wouldn't cover this kind of damage in the second.

I don't know how they might be trying to spin this to Ebay...

s.km.42 · ‎08-02-2019

Relax, ebay will get the money back for you

earlyant-77 · ‎08-02-2019

@mr_lincoln wrote:
@countrymouse007 wrote:
I don't want the machine at this point. It is damaged, and will be costly to repair, if it can be repaired. So I hope they give me a label. My question was, if the label doesn't have a provision for insurance, and the seller spots damage that I didn't see, would they be able to come back after me for that? And that question has been answered.
I don't know if the seller insured the shipment to me, they won't answer that question, so my guess is that they didn't. If they did though, my understanding is that if I ship it back to them, the insurance that should cover the damage would be void. I'm still waiting for eBay to hear back from the seller at this point, and hoping for a return lable.
The seller needs to contact FedEx and ask them how they should proceed with their insurance claim for the damaged item. However, I suspect they will not be paid since there was no internal packaging. The return label from eBay may or may not be a FedEx label ... it may be a USPS label, they get a huge discount on return labels with USPS ... however, they do NOT add insurance to my knowledge.

Nor, if I recall, do they have sig conf on them. That may be the only problem. That should be mentioned to ebay IF a label is issued without it.

7606dennis · ‎08-02-2019

@obojoekn wrote:
From what I have read on these message boards, if the seller has a NO RETURNS policy, then you may be given a 100% refund and not even required to return the item. It sounds as though you certainly will be given the full refund at a minimum.

I don't believe that is entirely accurate. A seller having a NO RETURNS policy only affect remorse returns and not SNAD returns under eBay's MBG. In the case of a remorse return, the seller having a NO RETURNS policy does not have to accept the return. That does not mean that the buyer will receive a refund and get to keep the merchandise.

In the case of SNAD returns, the seller is responsible for paying the return shipping under the MBG. They can chose to refund without making the buyer return the item but this is the seller's choice.

"It is an intelligent man that is aware of his own ignorance."

lightlily_arts · ‎08-03-2019

I went to go see the original listing for your sewing machine. Although the seller stated no returns they are obligated to get the item to the buyer in the condition listed. When you filed a claim for not as described the seller was required to provide you with a return shipping label. This is a new seller and clearly they don't understand how eBay's MBG policy works and are in for a rude awakening. Make sure that you pack it carefully. It doesn't matter how it got damaged in transit as it's on the seller to file the damage claim. He needs to refund you in full upon return of the sewing machine. When you escalated the claim eBay has to give the seller time to respond. If he doesn't they will force it on him. I can't see any reason why this wouldn't work out for you. I would not accept a partial refund from the seller either as you don't know what other damage there could be.Let us know how it works out.

countrymouse007 · ‎08-03-2019

48 hours now, and it still says "a case is open, we are waiting for information from the seller".

lightlily_arts · ‎08-03-2019

How long did eBay state they were going to give the seller to respond?

countrymouse007 · ‎08-03-2019

They said that the review would take 48 hours after I escalated the case. I just called, and they said due to the high value of the claim, it has to go through an audit. So I guess I'll hear something early next week, as I figure the auditors are likely not there on the weekend.

lightlily_arts · ‎08-03-2019

Also do be aware that signature confirmation is required for the shipping of any item over $750. Contact eBay if your label doesn't include that as it is required by PayPal. You seller was required to have signature confirmation on the delivery as well.