Seller Tracking Number Scam - Follow along in real time

[pragmatic-value]

Hi guys,

Here is a great opportunity to follow along in real time to see if eBay will back its customers.  So here goes: on Saturday I saw a great deal on a graphics card from a seller in my home state. They had no feedback, and I was about to take a pass, but up in the right corner next to "buy now" was the ebay buyer protection badge -- you know, the one with "Get the item you ordered or your money back—it’s that simple" logo.  So I said, what the heck.

A few minutes after I hit "buy" I get a tracking number uploaded ... from another state.  Uh oh.  Some quick googling revealed the "tracking number scam" where a fraudster will fish for a tracking number going to another address in your city, upload it, and get this ... eBay sides with the seller because they only look at the zip code and city to verify delivery. 

On Sunday, I notice that ebay took the original listing (multiple items) down, so they have to know it is a scam. I know, they know.

First thing Monday I call eBay, and the (nice) woman on the other end of the phone assures me that "they have ways of knowing the address" and that they still have my money on hold.  She opened up an "item not received" case immediately, I guess because the listing was removed. By 4:00pm, the package shows delivered, and you guessed it, no package.

So at this point my options are:

1.  press it with eBay, knowing they are likely to just look at the zip code

2. go to the post office, report fraud, and try to track down the original package

3. cancel the item not received case, and start a return case on the "quantity less than ordered" grounds

4. I've retained the "ebayblow.me"domain, and can just press the item not returned case and throw all this up online as a permanent reminder to other would-be ebay customers should the company not do the right thing.

So here it is. Choose your own adventure. What should I do?

[mudshark61369]

@pragmatic-value,

  "So here goes: on Saturday I saw a great deal on a graphics card from a seller in my home state. They had no feedback, and I was about to take a pass but up in the right corner next to "buy now" was the ebay buyer protection badge -- you know, the one with "Get the item you ordered or your money back—it’s that simple" logo. So I said, what the heck".

That is where you should have listened to your inner voice telling you something was wrong.  Low price + (0) seller usually = SCAM!!!

  "On Sunday, I notice that ebay took the original listing (multiple items) down, so they have to know it is a scam. I know, they know... First thing Monday I call eBay, and the (nice) woman on the other end of the phone assures me that "they have ways of knowing the address" and that they still have my money on hold. She opened up an "item not received" case immediately, I guess because the listing was removed. By 4:00pm, the package shows delivered, and you guessed it, no package". 

You cannot always count on what ebay's customer service reps tell you to work.  Since you received a tracking number which showed delivery, have you run it through the shipping service's site to see where it was delivered?   Check the tracking info, to see when the tracking number was generated. Most of the times the stolen info shows the tracking was generated Before you made the purchase. If needed contact the shipping service to get an exact delivery address.   Then call ebay back with the info, that should be enough for eBay to close the item not received dispute in your favor. 

In the future you may not want to rely on a company's buyer protections, to protect you from your lack of judgement. 

[pragmatic-value]

Yes, I should have listened.  You got that right.  I don't expect any sympathy except to the extent the eBay buyer protection guarantee implies that the company will back buyers who don't receive their goods. It is no accident that they post the "shop with confidence" banner next to the bid and buy buttons - we'll see over the course of the next few days whether that sense of security is real or not.

I'm headed to the Post Office this morning with a screen capture of the eBay order summary to see if I can track the actual package down and get a statement on USPS letterhead indicating that the delivery address differs from mine. I'll post an update in a few hours..

I may also be in a unique situation insofar as this seller is in my home state and I am a lawyer.  Got no qualms about taking this guy to small claims court, swearing out a criminal complaint, etc.,  though I suspect we may be dealing with an identity theft situation.

[pragmatic-value]

Update: both eBay and the USPS are actually acquitting themselves well.  The postmaster was able to confirm that the package (letter actually) corresponding to the tracking number the seller uploaded to eBay as “proof” of shipment was delivered to a totally different address. They even dispatched a letter carrier to retrieve the letter and we’ll be getting the postal inspector involved.

Ebay asked me to file a police report, which I’m doing, and will be sending to eBay along with the USPS information showing the address misdirection.  In my case, I acted fast to start a dispute, which placed the funds on an initial, and now 10 day hold, so at this point nobody (eBay or me) will be out of pocket and it is hopefully a matter of demonstrating the fraud, which I can now do with the information gathered.

We’ll see if reality matches what I’ve been told, but so far so good...

[judydu2]

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@pragmatic-value wrote:

Update: both eBay and the USPS are actually acquitting themselves well.  The postmaster was able to confirm that the package (letter actually) corresponding to the tracking number the seller uploaded to eBay as “proof” of shipment was delivered to a totally different address. They even dispatched a letter carrier to retrieve the letter and we’ll be getting the postal inspector involved.

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A letter? With tracking? That's confusing....

[pragmatic-value]

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@judydu2 wrote:

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A letter? With tracking? That's confusing....

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The USPS screen capture showed 5oz and they were talking about a "letter" so I assume it was one of the priority mail flat rate envelopes.  Don't know for sure, though.

UPDATE: Police report was filed along with the USPS screen capture showing delivery to a different address. The helpful rep at eBay -- and at this point I have to say that they are actually being helpful -- suggested that I upload to eBay it tomorrow, which is the first day they can take action on the case.  The funds have been placed on hold for 10 days through November 8, so there does not appear to be a danger of some automated system releasing the funds to the scammer.

[mudshark61369]

@pragmatic-value,

  "UPDATE: Police report was filed along with the USPS screen capture showing delivery to a different address. The helpful rep at eBay -- and at this point I have to say that they are actually being helpful -- suggested that I upload to eBay it tomorrow, which is the first day they can take action on the case. The funds have been placed on hold for 10 days through November 8, so there does not appear to be a danger of some automated system releasing the funds to the scammer".

What you have done to date is how things have to be done, if there is a tracking number scam.  Because you have taken the steps you have, you will probably receive your refund once you upload the documentation you've obtained. 

Holding back posting using the domain you've created might not be a good idea.  Many people search online for sites condemning ebay, because they think INR refunds should be processed even though tracking shows delivery. Many who complain on these boards are not willing to, or wait too long to get the info needed for the MBG to work. If you were to post this experience on the domain, you might help someone who otherwise might lose an INR dispute.  The same info is also needed in these cases when an INR with tracking showing delivery PayPal dispute gets filed.  

  At least with your legal background, you probably understand why ebay has to be reactive in situations like this.  If they were to pull items off the site from a legitimate but inexperienced seller, whose listings look suspicious without some form of proof, they run the risk of becoming involved in a restraint of trade law suit. 

I can't wait to hear the outcome of the dispute.

[pragmatic-value]

FINAL UPDATE: I uploaded the police report last night and woke up to a refund notice! 

Only sour note -- I know it is automated, but looks like they couldn't resist a parting shot: "the seller uploaded a tracking number that shows that the item was delivered to your address" and the message goes on to say they issued the refund as a "courtesy".  Like come on, I provided evidence to you and to law enforcement from the 'friggin United States Post Office that undeniably shows that the tracking number uploaded by the "seller" relates to a package delivered to a different address than the one I have registered with eBay. I suspect mudshark61369 is right, though, and there are legal fears operating under the surface. I sort of feel for eBay here since this sort of fraud erodes the trust that makes the platform work and has got to be a problem for them.

Your mileage may vary, but these are my takeaways:

1. As stated above, listen to your instincts and don't rely on eBay buyer protection. If someone with low feedback is offering a good deal on an expensive piece of kit that somehow comes in under $750 (I think that is the required delivery signature threshold), run away. Kind of a "duh", but there you go.

2. In my case, I think catching the fraud early made all the difference.  The purchase price got put on hold before the initial (fictitious) delivery even took place. I could be wrong, but suspect that had eBay released the purchase price to the fraudster, the outcome might have been different.

3. Prepare to do your homework if you get stung.  I went to the USPS to get verification that the package didn't, in fact, get delivered to my address. I also went to the police and had this evidence to eBay before a final decision was made.

4. We all know they are human beings, but the folks on the other end of the customer service line ... can actually be helpful.  I don't doubt that some customers have had bad experiences, but in my case everybody was polite and offered suggestions that turned out to be good ones.  In my case, eBay gets a thumbs up there.

That's all folks!