Bought a counterfeit item and its in the post office at this moment.

[aus8070]

Bought a guitar from a UK seller. And found out it is not an authentic item. After a good long search on the internet, and found legit comparison for reference. The guitar that I m getting have many variants from the original. For example, the print on the guitar is way off , the length of the head stock is off, the guaranteed label is wrong, ( the guitar plant has closed down 14 years before that guitar has ever been released), the serial number is wrong etc... I should have taken the responsibility of not checking out the guitar thoroughly before I pulled the trigger.. But whats been done its done. So the item is in the office.. Should i still pick it up anyway first before I return it ? Or leave it in the post office and let the post office to return it ? Been talking with the seller, he insisted to issue refund or what so ever, and claimed the guitar is legit. I m wondering who is out there have been in the similar situation and how have u dealt with it ? Please share ur experience and leave ur comments or advice here. Greatly appreciated for ur help. Cheers. 

[missjen831]

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@7606dennis wrote:

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@lacemaker3 wrote:

@phono_0490xxxxxx

Your call-out to @Anonymous didn't work. It has to look like it does in the previous sentence (underlined and a link) for it to work. You don't need to do it again, because he will get the notice from this post.

I'm not Trinton, but here is the eBay policy about returning counterfeit items, to save him looking it up.

Only eBay can make the decision to do this, and they have to have very strong evidence before they will do it. They won't take the word of another eBay member, who might potentially be holding a grudge. And, although this is in the policy, I have never heard of eBay using it. Of course that doesn't mean that they haven't used it, just that I haven't heard about it.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210
Click on:  Read our full policy > When a buyer wants to return an item or the item doesn't match the listing > scroll down

Counterfeit items

If a buyer reports that an item is counterfeit, and there are strong indicators that the item is counterfeit, we may not require the buyer to return the item to the seller. The buyer agrees to cooperate with us to ensure proper disposal of the item. In such instances, we refund the buyer for the full cost of the item and original shipping, and the seller reimburses us for the refund. The buyer may not sell the item on eBay or elsewhere.

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The only problem that I see is that it uses the word, "may" which is an often used weasel word.  Whether or not the buyer believes that the item is counterfeit, unless the buyer is a legally recognized expert on the subject, eBay really would be taking a legal risk in having the buyer destroy the item, even if they can verify that the buyer did, indeed, destroy the suspect item.  Frankly, while the policy may look good on paper, or on screen, it would appear to be full of legal pitfalls which begs the question of how often would eBay actually do what their policy says they may do.

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Just from what we see here on the boards, eBay usually has the buyer return the item for a refund. If the buyer is refunded and not required to return, it’s usually NOT because the buyer alleged the item was fake, but because the seller refused to accept the return or on international transactions pay for return shipping.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@phono_0490xxxxxx wrote:

@aus8070

Picking the item up does not compromise your position, so do.

You have reasonable doubt of it's authenticity from initial research. You have a better than average knowledge now.... good. That's a very good start.

You need to seek qualified opinion on this matter. 

At cost to you or not, get that in written format with photos.

Next open a dispute case based on 'Does not appear authentic'.  Submit the evidence to that effect.

DO NOT AGREE TO HAVE A FAKE RETURNED TO SOMEONE THAT WILL SELL IT AGAIN.

The fake item should be destroyed and evidence submitted that this has been done.

On-selling may have unfortunate consequences, after all, just as bad as the original fraudster. 

It's hard to believe that any individual with a drop of integrity could suggest returning a fake anything is A-OK, or that ebay who profess to have conserns and act to address the issues of fakes littering the pages here would allow a fake returned back into the market place.

Likewise, those who adopt a 'selfish' attitude and think "I'm OK now, I don't care if anyone else ripped off" are just as bad as those who sell this stuff and deceive unwitting buyers.

As the buyer of this item, documented as it is, you should be aware that other people who have an interest in this field and market integrity have probably seen this and will notice if it shows up again.

Personally, I know fakes are tracked by those in the coin and banknote collecting field and that people of high repute have a history of working with International enforcement agencies to prosecute the offenders.  None of these people would suggest return and get a refund.

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OP, DO NOT destroy the guitar!  You have to return it if you want your money back!

[castlemagicmemories]

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@nowthatsjustducky wrote:

Until the guitar can be actually authenticated, then this is still just a he said/she said situation.  Since we only have the OP's say so that this may be counterfeit without actual proof, then the seller is entitled to receive the merchandise back before having to issue a refund.

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Absolutely.  Advising anything else is advising the OP to throw away their money.

I understand the ethics behind the thought that it should be destroyed, but there is no proof that this is counterfeit, and OP will need to return it if he wants his money back.  

[castlemagicmemories]

Just want to add that rarely have we seen a return not required in situations like this.  But by all means, follow Ebay's instructions.  Just know that most likely a return will be required.  However, if Ebay decides otherwise, they will let you know.  Do not just destroy the guitar, even with accredited expert documentation.

[phono_0490xxxxxx]

@aus8070

You have time to act on this and a way to go about seeking refund and NO return.

Download all images that you say raise doubt over the authenticity, and then seek written qualified opinion that has contact info for that expert.... not opinion of a random on an Internet forum.

Put your case in writing [preferably] to ebay and win it by effort. Do not accept the need to return if this is a counterfeit.  Would you want another buyer sucked into buying a fake?

When 'won' and funds MBG returned, subject to proof of 'disposal', have much fun smashing it up as extra payment for the grief suffered.  

Take good pic's and come back to post 'em here... for a good laugh.

[phono_0490xxxxxx]

There might be a reason for 'rarely see here'. [on these boards]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082060/PayPal-eBay-buyer-destroy-2-500-violin-deemed-counte...

" A PayPal spokesman said: While we cannot talk about this particular case due to PayPal's privacy policy, we carefully review each case, and in general we may ask a buyer to destroy counterfeit goods if they supply signed evidence from a knowledgeable third party that the goods are indeed counterfeit. "

"The reason why we reserve the option to ask the buyer to destroy the goods is that in many countries, including the U.S., it is a criminal offense to mail counterfeit goods back to a seller."

^ Looks like paypal might be an easier way to remedy this. ^

Plenty more to be found,

https://www.google.com/search?q=Counterfeit+ebay+item+destroyed&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

[missjen831]

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@phono_0490xxxxxx wrote:

There might be a reason for 'rarely see here'. [on these boards]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082060/PayPal-eBay-buyer-destroy-2-500-violin-deemed-counte...

" A PayPal spokesman said: While we cannot talk about this particular case due to PayPal's privacy policy, we carefully review each case, and in general we may ask a buyer to destroy counterfeit goods if they supply signed evidence from a knowledgeable third party that the goods are indeed counterfeit. "

"The reason why we reserve the option to ask the buyer to destroy the goods is that in many countries, including the U.S., it is a criminal offense to mail counterfeit goods back to a seller."

^ Looks like paypal might be an easier way to remedy this. ^

Plenty more to be found,

https://www.google.com/search?q=Counterfeit+ebay+item+destroyed&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

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Um.....why are you quoting bad sources? That’s not a credible article right that. it’s NOT a criminal offense for someone in the US to return counterfeit goods. But nice try 🙂

[missjen831]

And yes you are confusing ethics with policy. You can advise an OP ok what you think the ethical way to handle things are but you are doing them NO FAVORS when you neglect to mention what ebay and PayPal policies are and that their policies are what matters. 

[castlemagicmemories]

Ebay is the first course of remedy.

Counterfeit items

If a buyer reports that an item is counterfeit, and there are strong indicators that the item is counterfeit, we may not require the buyer to return the item to the seller. The buyer agrees to cooperate with us to ensure proper disposal of the item. In such instances, we refund the buyer for the full cost of the item and original shipping, and the seller reimburses us for the refund. The buyer may not sell the item on eBay or elsewhere.

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The underlined words, MAY NOT, indicate there is a chance THEY MAY require a return.  Presuming otherwise is counterproductive.

[castlemagicmemories]

Hi @aus8070, to be eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee, you will need to retrieve the item. Though I understand you have been researching your purchase and comparing details online to the listing, we are not able to investigate without the guitar being in your possession. Once you have your purchase, if you remain concerned you can open a Return Request and we will work with you from there. Depending on the details of the transaction, we may request additional information and may not require a return based on what is provided.

Again the words, MAY NOT, in Trinton's response, indicate that there is a chance THEY MAY require a return.

OP, please comeback and let us know what happens on this.

Thank you!

Options

[#12]

Hi @aus8070, to be eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee, you will need to retrieve the item. Though I understand you have been researching your purchase and comparing details online to the listing, we are not able to investigate without the guitar being in your possession. Once you have your purchase, if you remain concerned you can open a Return Request and we will work with you from there. Depending on the details of the transaction, we may request additional information and may not require a return based on what is provided.

Again the words, MAY NOT, in Trinton's response, indicate that there is a chance THEY MAY require a return.

OP, please comeback and let us know what happens on this.

Thank you!

[castlemagicmemories]

https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/is-it-illegal-to-mail-counterfeit-items-using-us-postal-service....

[castlemagicmemories]

OP, with all due respect, to avoid this situation in the future, always do your buyer's due diligence BEFORE you buy, not after.  Doing it after can't help you as you already bought it.  The idea is to do it BEFORE you buy because then you CAN avoid a bad situation.

You can see why that is necessary from the situation you are in, or think you are in.  Had you investigated prior to buying, you may have decided not to buy due to your concerns as to authenticity.

NEVER buy or bid WITHOUT doing your buyer's due diligence BEFORE you commit to bid or buy.  Investigating post sale can't help you.

[castlemagicmemories]

"extra payment for the grief suffered.  "

We don't know that the item in question is indeed a counterfeit, as has been pointed out numerous times in this post.  OP is not sure it is a counterfeit.  He THINKS it is.

"Grief suffered" would have been avoided had the OP done his investigating and buyer's due diligence BEFORE he bought and not after.  Then he could have made an informed buying decision and just hit the back button and walked away if he had any doubts that the item was authentic.  With all due respect, and no offense, that is on the OP.  

Seller may be innocent, that is just not known at this point.

[phono_0490xxxxxx]

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@phono_0490xxxxxx wrote:

@aus8070

Picking the item up does not compromise your position, so do.

You have reasonable doubt of it's authenticity from initial research.

You have a better than average knowledge now.... good. That's a very good start.

You need to seek qualified opinion on this matter. 

At cost to you or not, get that in written format with photos.

Next open a dispute case based on 'Does not appear authentic'. 

DO NOT AGREE TO HAVE A FAKE RETURNED TO SOMEONE THAT WILL SELL IT AGAIN.

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And thats post 4 here.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Bidding-Buying/Counterfeit-items/qaq-p/22679087

[castlemagicmemories]

OP, I see in your OP that you realize you did your due diligence backwards and should have done that before you bought, and that you say what is done, is done.

No offense, I understand you realize your mistake, just trying to reinforce that conclusion so that you don't wind up in similar situations.  It is just not worth all the hassle that may ensue when you don't do that.  

That's all.