Auto payment now mandatory for AUCTIONS?!?

[rileysan]

Tonight I went to bid on an item and I noticed a new message in the "Place you bid" popup. It states:

"By selecting Place bid, you authorize eBay to bid up to your max bid and, if you win, charge your bid amount and related costs to your PayPal account. You also agree to eBay's User Agreement and Privacy Notice."

If I am reading this correctly, eBay will now automatically charge my PayPal account at the end of the auction. That is, I no longer have a choice how and when I will pay. Whose idea was it to make this change and why did I have to find out this way? I have been a member for 25 years and have thousands of transactions, and when eBay crams this kind of sh&t down my throat without so much as a whisper; yeah, yeah ... they send out new Terms & Conditions all the time, but I never actually expected to be the victim of a corporate EULA, a la South Park's "Cent-I-Pad" episode. I'm furious and wonder how many other people feel the same way?

- Brian 

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

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@cardsforauction wrote:

If they decide to make it mandatory, there will be less sales and lower sale prices.   Potential buyers will think twice or three times before bidding.  Buyers who bid on many items at the same time, and the one time they win most of items the same day or couple few days, they may face a financial, catastrophic, disaster for their bank account (if the items are high priced) because all the funds will be automatically withdrawn.   Many overdraft fees too.   The buyer should be able to have a few days to pay, and the choice, how they are going to pay for their purchases.

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I vehemently disagree here, sorry. Don't set up auto-pay on any payment method that can't handle the totality of your bids. Not sure how it works on the bank accnts but I believe the CCs have a payment hold so you can't over max your card. 

This would just be the fault of the buyer. Plain and simple. I place tons and tons of bids but I can manage a major influx of expense. Any bids I'm worried about managing expense of I place as snipes so I'm not leaving them hanging for long periods of time, they are executed quickly and I know whether I'm on the hook for it or not within seconds

[campanaelia]

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@ajs_coins_and_alchemy wrote:

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@chevymontecarlo88 wrote:

Maybe there are some kinks (combined shipping) in the system that need to be worked out, but in theory it seems like common sense. Am i missing something?

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Yeah, I'll name some kinks and issues:

-Combined shipping (not possible)

-Certain Payment Methods unavailable (eBay CC Rewards points, PayPal Pay-in-4, etc)

-Now you force tons of separate payments when buyer wins multiple auctions which means sellers pay separate (30c/40c) transaction fees

There is also general distrust of the system which leads to fewer bidders/buyers. 

I'm glad this isn't a thing anymore. I never had to experience it for auctions, only offers. It would also slow me down, I place bids on literally 100s of auctions per week. I don't have the time to sit and pre-authorize every single bid.

I'm going to keep beating this drum and say it again ... The whole idea of pre-authorized payment should only be used as a penalty system. The whole "Blocking buyers" with UPI strikes should be done away with. Merge the two systems into a better solution.

Sellers should not be able to block buyers with UPIs ... and buyers that have no UPI's should not have to pre-authorize payment ... INSTEAD buyers with 'X' number of UPI's in 'Y' time period should be forced to pre-authorize payment and be able to purchase from any seller that hasn't explicitly placed them on their blocked list.

Seller's ability to block buyers because of UPI strikes is ridiculous when the "pre-authorized" payment system exists. If you use the pre-authorized payment system, why do you have UPI block? Yes I understand the pre-authorization doesn't work for auctions now so you may use UPI block for auction bidders, but just roll it out the way I have suggested, you'll create a single unified system that will increase the buyer pool for sellers, protect seller's interests and a lot less buyers will be P*ssed

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Ebay already shrank the buyer pool with the auto-pay policy so who knows if they'll even return. Many buyers warned about this for the past year but it seems ebay is doubling down on it. If a seller is that desperate they should only be using BIN format listings, period. 

When you add a policy that decreases payment options, takes away combined shipping and forces buyers to authorize ebay to make charges without the buyer reviewing the invoice first, this is the end result.

I haven't made an offer for a year now and I'm buying at least half of what I used to because of auto-pay. Now if it's coming back to auctions I will be decreasing my buying down to about 1%. If I can't review the final invoice and the payment source it's being deducted from and submit the payment myself, I hit the back button.

There have been many errors made and once they have your money there's no fixing it.

AMOF the only times I've ever allowed an automatic payment was for my mortgage. Not even for my utilities did I ever allow it, and ebay is nothing special to make me change my ways.

I highly doubt the auto-pay policy has ever increased buyers that were never serious in the first place to suddenly pay immediately, but what did happen is it decreased paying buyers from buying as much as they use to before auto-pay began, I am one of them.

I've also never had an UPI in 20 years using ebay so it has nothing to do with not planning to pay.

I've read many threads where the credit card was the default payment shown but the money was taken from their bank accounts instead causing over $200 in late and ovedraft fees. Here's a few and there are many more.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying/immediate-pay-on-offers/m-p/33990246#M460022

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying/Auto-pay/m-p/34050697#M463753

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying/Automatic-Payments-on-Buy-it-Now-Offers/td-p/34049408

In the thread below the buyer was overcharged for shipping, no way to fix after payment was completed.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying/Over-charged-for-shipping/m-p/34428023#M485094

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

Geez ... soo many ways this could be fixed. Not saying this is a "good" solution, but what about having a payment method on file and a default shipping address. In the event you don't pay, instead of seller cancelling due to non payment they just charge your default payment method and ship to default address. You have 4 days to pay or you can negotiate with seller to wait longer. Basically, follow the same system we have now w/o auto-pay but instead of UPI you get auto-charged and shipped.

Don't get me wrong, tons of things wrong with the above method, but honestly, it would solve the crying from some sellers and stop interfering with serious buyers.

I don't advocate for the above, but it's better than the current iteration of auto-pay IMO

[campanaelia]

There is no event for me when I don't pay, hasn't been in 20 years, so there is no reason I need to authorize ebay to make automatic charges ever. It is totally unnecessary and if they are going to force me to do that, I'll shop elsewhere.

[campanaelia]

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@gurlcat wrote:

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@campanaelia wrote:

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@blueladybugjodes wrote:

It's probably because so many buyers don't pay when they win so now sellers don't want to offer auctions. I've only just started to sell, but I've had 2/6 sales not pay. 

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OK, so now you'll have at least one less bidder that does pay and 99% of what I buy is from auctions. If you want immediate payment use BIN format and don't force this crap on paying bidders. I think it's really bright to shrink your buyer pool. Next you'll be crying when your auctions don't get bid high enough, I predict that will be the end result.

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Jeez you're jumping on her as if SHE was who caused it to be implemented.  Are you okay?  

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She likes to whine a lot, have you looked at the high percentage of red donuts she leaves for other sellers? Take a look...

Direct link:

https://feedback.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/blueladybugjodes?&ssPageName=STRK:ME:UFS

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

I hear you. I can't say I've never had a UPI but I will say no UPI ever stayed on my record, LOL. Only time I ever got UPIs was because a seller wasn't aware they had auto-cancel set up for unpaid items. We agreed to let me bid on their auctions all week long and just bundle it end of week. Needless to say that seller quickly turned off auto-cancel afterwards and eBay removed the UPI's from my account promptly. 

[campanaelia]

You can appeal those UPI's when you and the seller have an agreement.

[cardsforauction]

The scenario I describe, for example: Someone wins 12 items on a Wed and Thursday totaling an amount $1800.  The person only has $400 left in their bank account.  The person will get a paycheck on Friday for about $2000.  If the auctions end on Wed and Thursday the auto pay will kick in and they are short.  No backup payment method or their CC is close to the credit limit.  What happens when Wed and Thursday come?  Will eBay kick off the member because they did not pay for the items?  The buyer intends to pay Friday or Saturday for the items since the money will be available.  A normal auction ending allows 4 days to pay.  I think auto pay will have buyers think twice about bidding.

[rileysan]

Yes - I have seen it 3 more times since I started looking for it. It's also possible that I haven't noticed it when using the phone app, because reading the fine print is more difficult. If I had more patience, I would experiment by increasing my sample size to a minimum of 100 auctions, then chart the results, but I'm not a patient man. As it stands, taking time to participate in online forums pushes the limits of my attention span, lol!

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

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@campanaelia wrote:

You can appeal those UPI's when you and the seller have an agreement.

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Of course, I know. I got them taken off pronto -- they restricted me from bidding on anything until they got taken off. Needless to say I wasn't too happy but I understood why it happened. Seller wasn't even aware of the setting they had enabled.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

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@cardsforauction wrote:

The scenario I describe, for example: Someone wins 12 items on a Wed and Thursday totaling an amount $1800.  The person only has $400 left in their bank account.  The person will get a paycheck on Friday for about $2000.  If the auctions end on Wed and Thursday the auto pay will kick in and they are short.  No backup payment method or their CC is close to the credit limit.  What happens when Wed and Thursday come?  Will eBay kick off the member because they did not pay for the items?  The buyer intends to pay Friday or Saturday for the items since the money will be available.  A normal auction ending allows 4 days to pay.  I think auto pay will have buyers think twice about bidding.

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Don't worry, I fully understood your example. I am a STRONG OPPONENT to the auto-pay system. I hate it. I have choice words for eBay regarding the system. I also agree that it will drive buyers away and will make them think twice about bidding.

HOWEVER ... I take issue with your example. The buyer in your scenario SHOULD NEVER over extend themselves and commit to too many auctions if they can't cover the funds. Your original example expressed that the buyer is "used to" only winning a fraction of the auctions they bid on. The buyer should be prepared to cover the totality of all the max bids placed, or not place the bids at all. If they don't have the funds on hand within the requisite time frame to cover all max bids currently on the line, then they are in the wrong. I understand the "typical" 4 days to pay, but this premise is that the buyer is bidding under the auto pay system and that means the buyer should have READ the terms when they agreed to auto-pay. 

Your example, if it should ever occur, is 100% the buyer's fault. I am vehemently against the auto pay policy as it will harm buyers in their ability to bid on items and harm sellers by decreasing sales/prices ... and thus buyers will be reluctant to bid because of auto pay, but your scenario proposes a buyer would knowingly bid on too many items using auto pay when they don't have the cash to cover it. That means they screwed up big time and it's their fault.

The only reasoning in your example is that the buyer was UNAWARE that they were committing to auto-pay, and were expecting a typical 4 day pay window ... Buyer is at fault for not reading. I'm not condoning eBay's auto pay but I'm blaming buyer in this instance.

[cardsforauction]

You're right it would be the buyers fault if they play chicken with their finances. 

In my example, I did mention the buyer would be able to pay by Friday or Saturday under the current 4 day payment rule.  So, the buyer would be acting responsibly, because they know they have the paycheck Friday.  I've had buyers tell me they will pay in a day or two because they are getting their paycheck on Friday.  No problem with me as long as you pay.

In my opinion, the bottom line is that auto-pay hurts eBay sellers.  Maybe less sales, lower auctions prices.  If eBay wants to be like everyone else, then so be it.  Every auction and BIN will have auto-pay with fewer bids and purchases.   Are there really that many buyers who love auto-pay?

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

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@cardsforauction wrote:

You're right it would be the buyers fault if they play chicken with their finances. 

In my example, I did mention the buyer would be able to pay by Friday or Saturday under the current 4 day payment rule.  So, the buyer would be acting responsibly, because they know they have the paycheck Friday.  I've had buyers tell me they will pay in a day or two because they are getting their paycheck on Friday.  No problem with me as long as you pay.

In my opinion, the bottom line is that auto-pay hurts eBay sellers.  Maybe less sales, lower auctions prices.  If eBay wants to be like everyone else, then so be it.  Every auction and BIN will have auto-pay with fewer bids and purchases.   Are there really that many buyers who love auto-pay?

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I agree with the philosophy of "No problem with me as long as you pay". You and I are very like minded.

However, just to be completely clear, both previous iterations of your example that I have disagreed with have stated or implied that the buyer placed these multiple bids and over extended themselves while being enrolled in the auto pay system. You explicitly described a buyer bidding on multiple auctions and winning all at once and facing financial catastrophe and overdraft fees. This implies that the buyer would have NOT been acting responsibly as they placed too many bids while being faced with the auto-pay policy. 

I agree this behavior would work or be appropriate under the old policy (non auto-pay), but your examples imply auto-pay enabled. Buyer is responsible to read terms prior to placing bid. Doing such under auto-pay in your previous iterations of your examples would be irresponsible.

eBay will implode and no longer exist as it's "traditional" auction format that it always has been with auto-pay enabled as a policy.

[pjcdn2005]

Today I do have an option to require ipr for auctions. Have they changed this in the last couple of days?

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[ittybitnot]

@pjcdn2005 

You are right!   They put it back.  At this point, at least on my page they are not even checked /YES by default like last time. 

Thank you!