Unreasonable Shipping Charges/Star System

[artful*paper*doll]

Okay, I need to get this off my chest. Jillian, late last summer a topic regarding the star system had been posted. You were right! I HATE THE STAR SYSTEM and it should be abolished!! Because I was too new of a seller then to really have become properly acquainted with the effects of the star system, my arrogance and naivete were apparent in my comments. My humble apologies to the readers. Now that I have a little more experience behind me I find I am being burned for everything but most of all, shipping charges! OMG!!! Let's forget for a moment that the buyer is getting the artwork for damned near nothing, a detail that seems to go all but unnoticed in many cases, especially in this instant gratification, I want your heart and soul for free, ship it as soon as you get my payment, I want it tomorrow, I don't care if you have a BUSY day job or a life outside of eBay, world!! Geezo! Gawd forbid you charge the actual shipping cost above and beyond the cost of the postage stamp, just because that's all they ever see and can grasp the concept of. For the first time tonight, I went to Office Depot with a pen and paper to write down prices and quantities on items I buy for the purpose of shipping my items. I then sat down and calculated what it costs me to ship a single ACEO. The actual cost to me when I take all of the packaging into consideration, is more than I am charging for shipping yet my stars are being tarnished for unreasonable shipping rates! You've GOT to be kidding me! Someone wake me up from my nightmare! I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry! I don't even charge for everything like TAPE, or the time it takes me to carefully put together the package to ensure it's going to arrive at my customer's door in the same condition I packed it yet why is it the buyer never considers this? Yes, I'm darn hacked!! If I just chucked the item in an envelope, no padding, don't care if it gets bent, accidentally misplaced under a boat anchor or drop kicked to India, you better believe I'd hear about it if it didn't arrive in pristine condition! I feel like it's a stab in the back to have someone blow sunshine where the sun doesn't shine and then give it to you in the shorts in the star ratings. FEH! Cheap shot if you ask me! If you are going to rate using the star system, you ought to be REQUIRED to leave your user name! How else are you supposed to find out what it is the customer wants if you can't ask what it is the customer felt you could improve on or even who to ask! I'm also being hit for shipping time! (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) I ship items THE NEXT DAY!!! Sometimes, after coming home from the office, I'm up late packing my items to make sure they arrive in a timely manner and I'm being dinged for shipping time? Why do these people even bother to bid? -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs

[artful*paper*doll]

Ahhhhhhhh! Index cards! Had not thought of that! EXCELLENT idea! I've been purchasing certificate paper complete with gold seals and using those. They are 8 1/2 by 11 and I generally don't want to bend those which is the reason for the large envelopes or even mailing the certificate separately from the box. An alternate size that fits my mailer is a great solution! As a 6 Sigma belt in training, why didn't I think of that?!! (hehehehehehehe) ACEO - $1,000 (hahahahahahahahaha) It should be, huh? I can relate to that one entirely! I do use the video cassette boxes when I ship my more three dimensional items. Those work out but the place I buy them charges me over $1.00 per box. UGH! Must change that. -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs

[poozybear]

I buy the rigid cardboard mailers in bulk on ebay and have been very pleased. I can't remember the last seller I bought from, but many are good. The last lot I bought, even with the cost of shipping added, came out to only about .17 apiece. If you buy them at the drug store, you'll pay at LEAST $1.00 for one. As Jillian said, padded mailers frequently get bent or folded by the postal carriers. They're fine to use, but you have use a piece of cardboard inside to keep them rigid. Without cardboard in them, the post office will handle them just like a regular envelope. -- Kathy

[artistjillian]

The cassette boxes can be bought in bulk on ebay. Always use a top loader in a padded envelope. (If you MUST use them. I hate them!) Not all people appreciate a COA, so I buy 500 white index cards around 1 cent each. 4x6" is a good 'storage' size, as they can be stored in post card albums, much the same as trading card sleeves. Or folded in half, they will then fit in trading card sleeves either behind the ACEO, or in a separate filing system. -- ~Jillian artist, Jillian Crider ... google me!

[papermatthew]

Everyone look at my DSRs, and you'll feel better about yours... I offer mostly free shipping, and when I do charge for shipping it is always less than the total cost of postage and materials... And I have "terrible" DSRs (according to eBay's view of things)... I am pretty sure it isn't my art buyers though.... I share this account with a person who used to be a regular customer of mine when I sold under a different account. She sold some non-art items and charged less than the cost of postage for shipping them. She offered Parcel Post and other faster options, and gave an estimated transit time for each option. The buyers always CHOSE the parcel post option, and she shipped the items within the number of days stated in the listing, and they all arrived BEFORE the longest transit time estimate (most left feedback before the longest transit time was up...). One buyer left a feedback saying "Mailing was a bit slow..." and she CHOSE to have it sent Parcel Post, it arrived and she left feedback before the longest transit time was up... Some buyers just can't be pleased unless you hop on an airplane and bring the item to their door the next day - after offering free shipping... It seems like art buyers are more reasonable overall, but there will always be people who just don't like to give out a "perfect" when there is a "good" option... I guess I should start sending a letter begging for 5's in every package.... Matthew Ross, 10II

[artful*paper*doll]

Kathy, Jillian, thanks for the great ideas on the mailers! I will try those. Sounds like it will make my life easier when shipping as well. Jillian, do you print both sides of your cards? How do you get everything on there? Everyone look at my DSRs, and you'll feel better about yours... hahahahahahahahaha!:^O I enjoyed your post Matthew! Thank you for the chuckle this morning. -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs

[artful*paper*doll]

Matthew, I was just looking at your work. I LOVE paper sculptures and that cat is PRICELESS!! I use paper sculpture techniques in some of my work too. Good for you for charging a decent price for yours! Kudos! -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs

[artful*paper*doll]

Here is another question. How are the ratings affected if you don't rate at all in a particular area like communication but you have rated every other category? Does their rating in the category you left alone remain unaffected? My guess is that it would be but with all of eBay's sneaky, back stabbing ways, you never know. -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs

[artistjillian]

I have a sample of my COA somewhere, in the photo gallery or search the threads. I do NOT print on both sides. The only time I do that is in packaged work for art shows when I do a COA one side, and my artist's bio the other side - so that the bio shows on the outside of the 'pack'. I do not know how it rates if people don't leave stars for one option. I have asked ebay execs, but so far (MONTHS later) have not received an answer. -- ~Jillian artist, Jillian Crider ... google me!

[poozybear]

It appears that nothing happens if someone skips a particular category. My star numbers are uneven, and they did not go down on the two categories that were skipped. I have a friend, a former radio personality, who has been selling of some of his old station stickers. He's been charging outrageous shipping . . . $4.00 for a sticker that he ships in a plain envelope with a .41 cent stamp. Two people have skipped over his other stars and specifically banged his shipping cost star. The other three stars have remained at 5.0, while the shipping star is down at 4.0. So in his case, the other stars were also unaffected by being skipped over. And I have to say, even though this guy IS overcharging, how cowardly is it for those buyers to do that? The shipping charges are stated in the listing, they agreed to them, then made a point of dinging ONLY that star. And of course, glowing feedback comments were left, as if to make the ding the on the star anonymous. This is what the system encourages . . . cowardly attacks. -- Kathy

[artistjillian]

Have to agree... A buyer buys, presumably knowing the shipping costs then dings the seller on that. There is something totally wrong with this. A deal is made by two people, one to buy, the other to supply. Details are known by the buyer. Yet it's like they get to complain that they didn't read right, or whatever and publicaly display their displeasure to the detriment of the poor seller who spelt everything out right in the first place. -- ~Jillian artist, Jillian Crider ... google me!

[kaleidoscope2]

If you think the stars on ebay's system are strangely skewed, try looking at Amazon's. Very often I buy a book from a reseller. I look at the star ratings and when I find a low amount of stars, I hunt. Very often I see four stars and a comment -- "everything perfect" or something else to that effect. As for the Post Office, I think the employees are in a world on another planet. I mail aceo's in a 4X6 envelope because I enclose it in a large card with a copy of one of my paintings which I print myself. I haven't been enclosing COA's because I never got around to printing one, but they are in a rigid top loader. The last one my husband took to the PO cost $2.51. When I went through the roof, he called the PO and got the same person that took it. She told him that because it said "do not bend," which he graciously added himself, it fit into another class of postage. He had bee doing this all along and never had this problem. The charge was generally about $.68. Lorri

[angelacmoore]

Part of the problem is that "reasonable" or "neutral" ratings should be set so that they don't affect the existing star rating. "Neutral" is not a bad rating - it's what it says - neutral. Perhaps you should go UP points for 4 and 5 stars (maybe +.5 for 4*s, +1 for 5*s), and DOWN for 2 or 1 star. (-0.5 for 2*s, -1 for 1*. Then you call them "Customer Satisfaction Points (CSPs)" or similar; So: Angy has 3.5 Customer Satisfaction Points for Communication over 4 transactions. (Three 5*s, one 4*). OR ChineseRippoffsRUs has -20 CSPs for Description of Goods over 20 transactions. (All 20 customers gave 1*).

[spiritbinder63]

Matt, I can't understand why your stars got dinged- I recieved my card from you so fast that I was clueless as to what could have arrived.You go out of your way to do a bang up packaging job too!!! I totally agree with everything said here about the star system being unfair. Packaging costs are never concidered by some of the buyers, and I go out of my way to ship items safely. 1 roll of shipping tape-$1.29 10 small padded envelopes- $2.85 1 roll of bubble wrap- 3.65 14 cubic feet of packing peanuts-$20.00 1 satisfied buyer who doesn't ding my stars-priceless -- Dawn *House of 1000 Spirits*

[drawdog5]

As has been said in many other threads, art sellers on eBay are (for the most part) different animals from other sellers. We are representing ourselves and our work and want our buyers to appreciate that and understand that we put our hearts into what we do. We go the extra mile to make sure our work gets to our buyers intact. Of course eBay can't make a different set of rules for us, so we're stuck under the same umbrella with everyone else. I'm not going to offer free shipping! My art deserves good packaging and I'm going to charge the buyer for it. Ebay isn't getting one more penny than necessary! I ship original ACEOs in a bubble envelope with additional bubble wrap to make the envelope thick enough to qualify as a "package" so I can get the 18 cent delivery confirmation option (tracking number) via USPS when I pay for the shipping on-line. I use the bubble envelope because I like to include a postcard of my work with every purchase - the postcard, business card, ACEO, packing slip & sometimes another goody (if it's a repeat buyer or the ACEO goes for a nice price) all fit nicely in the bubble envelope. I only charge $1.75 to mail an original ACEO. I know that doesn't completely cover my hard costs, but it's close. It sure doesn't cover my time to package it and go to the PO - but I chalk that up to the cost of doing business. If someone bought one little item from an on-line retail store, the shipping would be a minimum of $5. That doesn't seem to click with many eBay buyers who are looking for bargains on shipping costs too. A couple things I have done to inform buyers: This note appears in my store header: "Please note that my shipping rates are as low as I can afford to set them - I charge exact shipping plus a bit extra to cover my costs for envelopes and packing materials." In my original ACEO listings: "For US shipments, I mail my original ACEOs in a bubble envelope with delivery confirmation." On my packing slip: "Thank you for your purchase! My job as a seller is not complete until I know your item has arrived and you are satisfied with it. Please leave feedback upon receipt so that I know the shipment has arrived safely. If you have any questions about your purchase please don't hesitate to contact me before leaving feedback." -- -Ann "The mind plays tricks on you. You play tricks back! It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting..." ~ PW Herman

[artful*paper*doll]

Some really great ideas here. Ann, nicely done on your verbage. I relly like those. Lorri, I too have written "Do Not Bend" on the outside of my packages and only ever had one postal worker who tried to charge me extra because if it for the same reasons you stated. I declined and had her ship it as is was (postage stamps were already on it). Everything mailed just fine. I think I will take Jillian's advice and start printing smaller COA's. This will solve my problem of having to ship the COA separately on some of my more dimensional works that have to be mailed in a box and will cut down the size of the envelope required if I'm just shipping COA's. As for the cowardly attacks, I agree. I did go to drswatch and that was helpful. I really do think that the person who rated me before receiving my item, could have single handedly been responsible for the tarnish on my other stars but who knows. -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs