Unreasonable Shipping Charges/Star System

[artful*paper*doll]

Okay, I need to get this off my chest. Jillian, late last summer a topic regarding the star system had been posted. You were right! I HATE THE STAR SYSTEM and it should be abolished!! Because I was too new of a seller then to really have become properly acquainted with the effects of the star system, my arrogance and naivete were apparent in my comments. My humble apologies to the readers. Now that I have a little more experience behind me I find I am being burned for everything but most of all, shipping charges! OMG!!! Let's forget for a moment that the buyer is getting the artwork for damned near nothing, a detail that seems to go all but unnoticed in many cases, especially in this instant gratification, I want your heart and soul for free, ship it as soon as you get my payment, I want it tomorrow, I don't care if you have a BUSY day job or a life outside of eBay, world!! Geezo! Gawd forbid you charge the actual shipping cost above and beyond the cost of the postage stamp, just because that's all they ever see and can grasp the concept of. For the first time tonight, I went to Office Depot with a pen and paper to write down prices and quantities on items I buy for the purpose of shipping my items. I then sat down and calculated what it costs me to ship a single ACEO. The actual cost to me when I take all of the packaging into consideration, is more than I am charging for shipping yet my stars are being tarnished for unreasonable shipping rates! You've GOT to be kidding me! Someone wake me up from my nightmare! I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry! I don't even charge for everything like TAPE, or the time it takes me to carefully put together the package to ensure it's going to arrive at my customer's door in the same condition I packed it yet why is it the buyer never considers this? Yes, I'm darn hacked!! If I just chucked the item in an envelope, no padding, don't care if it gets bent, accidentally misplaced under a boat anchor or drop kicked to India, you better believe I'd hear about it if it didn't arrive in pristine condition! I feel like it's a stab in the back to have someone blow sunshine where the sun doesn't shine and then give it to you in the shorts in the star ratings. FEH! Cheap shot if you ask me! If you are going to rate using the star system, you ought to be REQUIRED to leave your user name! How else are you supposed to find out what it is the customer wants if you can't ask what it is the customer felt you could improve on or even who to ask! I'm also being hit for shipping time! (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) I ship items THE NEXT DAY!!! Sometimes, after coming home from the office, I'm up late packing my items to make sure they arrive in a timely manner and I'm being dinged for shipping time? Why do these people even bother to bid? -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs

[artistjillian]

Sorry you're hurting. But yes, I have to agree. I have been 'dinged' on things out of my control - shipping costs and time, for some of the exact reasons you state. I also know that whenever I go to the PO to post a package, using same packaging, it depends which clerk I get, as to how much I get charged. Obviously I charge what I THINK is the correct shipping, plus my packet costs -no travel time though currenly takes a gallon of gas to go post a package. Then I get a clerk who doesn't know the 'correct' cost for a rigid package, and they put on postage 50-80 cents less. So then the recipient probably thinks I've robbed them. But obviously we lose on shipping no matter what. Not only that, ebay WANTS us to charge free shipping (guess what? ... they then get to collect fees on shipping as it's now a hidden cost to sellers, so it's a bonus for ebay for doing nothing!). Shipping time. Yes, I've 'got a life' too, besides ebay. I'm not bothered if I get things a few days later, but when it comes to doling out stars, if it's not in a buyer's hands the next day, they give a 4 instead of a 5. Ebay is teaching buyers that 4 is GOOD rating ... BUT it's actually a BAD rating for sellers, as we go lower down in the now default search of 'best match', and also get to not participate in special listings and all kinds of strikes against our good name. For what? Something that is NOT within our control. We are NOT bad. We may not be perfect. But why should we jump to the tune being played? Last I checked, we are not employees, but self-employed. If it were not for us sellers, where would the whole site be? *sigh* *hugs*, if that helps. -- ~Jillian artist, Jillian Crider ... google me!

[poozybear]

Kellie, copy/paste what you posted and take it over to the petition thread. Put your name on the petition. No, eBay isn't going to change this policy . . . they'll never even acknowledge the petition. BUT, you can bet that they ARE reading it. At the very least, venting your frustrations over there may help you feel better. It certainly made me feel better to make a little noise. A little noise is better than no noise, you know? ;) http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000424804&start=0 -- Kathy

[jjohnsonlowe]

Kellie, sweetie -- take a deep breath. I just checked your stars -- they are among the best I have seen. You are in the top 10% on three ratings and the top 10-25% on one rating. Ebay considers YOU a GREAT seller!! I KNOW this is unfair -- and you OBVIOUSLY try VERY, VERY hard to always do the RIGHT thing!! Go VENT, like Kathy suggested -- and note that even experienced artists, like Jillian, who have sold MANY, MANY wonderful works of art, are getting dinged right along with you. You are in GOOD company!! Whatever happens to YOU is happening to us all. I felt exactly the same way that you do when I got my first dings. Time has passed -- I am calmer now -- others have gotten dings -- it isn't fair -- but PLEASE don't let it continue to tear you up. Don't give ebay the POWER to make you miserable. (((HUGS))) --

[ncshrimper]

Hi Kellie, Well said! Many buyers are clueless about what it cost to ship anything or how something should be packed to prevent damage. You may try putting a little blurb in your auctions or in follow up invoice email telling your buyers how careful you are with packing and why. Also honestly inform them what it really cost for shipping and what a good deal they are getting when they buy from you. Also let them know that not only are they purchasing your artistic works but also the responsibility and care that is associated with shipping your work. That may help some and if nothing else it will show your customers you care about them and this may lead to more and better sales even if not shown in the faulty Ebay star system. Bertie

[artful*paper*doll]

Kathy, Jillian, you gals are AWESOME! I do feel better after reading your posts so thank you for the support. I really appreciate it. Jillian, that's pretty screwed up to go to the same post office with the exact same package and have the rates vary like that. What's up with that???!! I think that happened to me on a Canadian priority mail. Of course the agent who wanted to charge me more had absolutely no idea how I could have been charged less by an agent working in the same office! *eye roll* I won't even ship priority outside of the US now. I recently shipped a package to Canada that took exactly 28 days to get to my buyer. She received the package the day after I shipped a replacement out to her. This is an excellent example of shipping being out of control. Are the customs officials on a permanent lunch break? I will start looking at ways to cut shipping charges down if that's what customers want. This will mean they will no longer receive that nifty certificate of authenticity I've been sending out. It is obviously not being appreciated as much as I had hoped. We artists work so hard for our buyers! I see such beautiful work on here and wonder how many hours were spent creating the magnificence I see here. I am lucky to have buyers who really do appreciate the efforts I go to for them because they have said so. I wish I had more like them. Kathy, I will take your advice and sign the petition. I felt better after writing that novel you saw above. I may post something a little less passionate on my blog and refer readers of my shipping policy there. I absolutely agree that getting it out there is better than keeping it to yourself, something I've become really good at as I get older. 😉 Thank you again, ladies. You are beautiful. =D -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs

[artful*paper*doll]

jjohnson: Thank you for your kind note. 🙂 I guess I would have felt better if I had seen the dings come gradually. I swear it seemed like I went to bed one night with perfect stars (except the shipping charges) and woke up with tarnishes, it happened that fast! (hehehehehe) I must look like the over achiever who got an A minus and is now in vapors over it. Yes, I do worry about how that looks to buyers. I know that when I buy, I don't put alot of stock in the the stars of my sellers. I look at the feedback more than anything. If I have a problem, I usually like to state it in my feedback as well to help the seller out. I've actually been attacked for it and threatened with negative return feedback. Very nice! I will take a deep breath. It's like getting the first door ding on a new car. Eventually the drama of it passes and the second one isn't as traumatic. I sure do appreciate the support here. I do plan to sign the petition right away. {{{{HUGS}}}} back to you. :-) -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs

[artistjillian]

Kellie, if you toodle over to the petition thread you will find MANY who got dinged for shipping costs even though they shipped FREE. Don't cut yourself short!!!!! Absolutely charge what you NEED to for shipping! As you say, this just absolutely is not fair. I have started sending my 'thank you' card out with a plea for 5 stars, explaining that 4 stars, while appearing good, can really hurt me as a seller. I don't know if this has or will have any effect. Also, sign up at dsrwatch dot com - it lets you know when your star status changes. (And buyers are being told they can give the stars anonymously - HA! - doesn't take too much to figure out at all if you are not a powerseller.) *hugs* -- ~Jillian artist, Jillian Crider ... google me! -- Edited by artistjillian at 03/15/2008 8:33 AM PDT

[artistjillian]

By the way... For ACEOs I buy 6x6" CD mailers in bulk from ebay. These work out to around 20 cents each. No extra padding needed. Another fairly good way to ship is to buy rigid toploaders and put these in a flimsier envelope. -- ~Jillian artist, Jillian Crider ... google me!

[artful*paper*doll]

Bertie: " Also let them know that not only are they purchasing your artistic works but also the responsibility and care that is associated with shipping your work." Very gently and beautifully put. I do plan to write something that will help buyers with what shipping involves with me. You are right, I do care about my customer. I care about how my work is going to arrive at their doorstep because it reflects upon me. A well put together package does communicate something. I see how my mail arrives and I'm downright frighted at times! The lady who delivers my mail has absolutely no problem shoving stuff in my tiny, condo sized, mailbox including 8 1/2 x 11 soft bound books with breakable CDs attached to the cover! Even my junk mail comes out looking like she was shoving it in the trash rather than a mail receptacle. It's unbelievable! You can imagine why I don't trust postal workers to handle items with care. Thank you for your note. I sure do appreciate your objectivity. :-) -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs

[poozybear]

I wouldn't compromise your packaging in an attempt to improve your stars. I honestly don't think it will matter. Some (most) buyers just don't get it, and nothing you do will change their mindset. What matters is that the art reaches the buyer safely. Art is a OOAK item, and should be treated as such. For what it's worth, there are MANY sellers who ship for FREE and still have tarnished stars. Who knows why. It might be because some people just don't believe that anything is "perfect," or because eBay states that a 4 is considered good. Some sellers also believe that buyers get confused with free shipping and leave the neutral response of "Neither Reasonable Nor Unreasonable," which counts as a 3 and lowers the stars. These buyers may think that they're doing the right thing, not realizing the damage that it's causing. It's a bad system, BUT, you DO have a very good star rating. NO ONE has perfect stars. It's impossible to attain, it really is. Like Jana said, we're all in the same boat. It sucks big time, but don't beat yourself up over it. Your stars are better than most, so I'd say you're doing something right. :) -- Kathy -- Edited by poozybear at 03/15/2008 8:47 AM PDT

[poozybear]

Jillian, that's pretty screwed up to go to the same post office with the exact same package and have the rates vary like that. What's up with that???!! Figure this one out. I recently bought an ACEO from a fellow artist in our group. The ACEO got delayed, and I was beginning to worry that it was lost. When it finally arrived, it was stamped "Postage Due," with the number .72 cents hand written on it. YET, my mailman put it in my mailbox and never asked for the postage due. I have a postage scale, and weighed it, and the seller had in fact placed the correct postage on it. So who in heck stamped it postage due and why? It's amazing to me how clueless the post office can be. -- Kathy

[artful*paper*doll]

Hey Jillian, A thank you card is a really good idea! I generally send e-mails thanking my buyer for the payment and letting them know when items ship. The invoice also has another hand written thank you but I have never asked for ratings. I will try that. It is a good way to maybe get the buyer to let you know what they felt could have been improved on before they even hit the stars! Dinged for free shipping! What a hoot! That's got to be frustrating for those sellers! I will definitely check out dsrwatch.com. That's devilishly clever! I LOVE it!! ]:) I think that getting rid of the certificates will take care of a big part of my problem. I will try this for awhile and see if I get any complaints about those being missing. I won't need the 45 cent piece of cardboard I put in the envelope so that it won't get bent with the packed card in it. I also purchased some smaller, bubble mailers which should reduce weight as well. Rigid toploaders, I'll check into that and can you recommend a seller on the mailers? I know I need to find some bulk mail supply sellers because I think that will help me out. I didn't even include the tax in my shipping calculations. I didn't realize what greedy bastards the folks at eBay really are! What's that saying about biting the hand that feeds you? (hehehehehehehe) {{{{HUGS}}}} back to you. :-) -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs

[artistjillian]

I do COAs and will not send without them. I print onto 4x6" white index cards, costing 1 cent each (plus ink). I print thank you card on same, so it's not a folding card thingy. Again 1 cent. The sleeve is 1 cent. The plastic sleeve I put all in is about 4 cents. The ACEO is $1,000. HA! Dream on! HEE HEE HEE The 6x6" mailers are in business supplies - bulk. I buy 200, most of those sellers are fine. Even with what looks like big shipping charges, do your sums, works out quite cheap. I don't like bubble wrap, as in PO box the postie still shoves it in and bends them. If you have a 3D ACEO try buying in bulk the record cassette mailers, they are fabulous and PERFECT! -- ~Jillian artist, Jillian Crider ... google me!

[artful*paper*doll]

Kathy, it boggles the mind doesn't it? (hehehehehehe) Good for your postal carrier not to collect the over charge! There are some really good ones out there who care about what they do. It is very difficult to deal with the attitude problems of the rest of them. Why should we be forced to pay because they hate their jobs or are improperly trained? My stars may be better than most but look at how many ratings I have. I'm a youngen by comparison which is what worries me but you are right. I have told myself over and over that this system is so subjective and that I won't have perfect stars forever. I am thankful for the words that others have left as I feel this tells a better story. Maybe someone did leave me 3's all around which was why I noticed the sharp difference in my stars from one day to the next. I literally only noticed a really big difference in the past week or so. Perhaps it was the person who left me feedback before the item even arrived! Who does this? I know this because the feedback was left the day the item shipped and it would make sense to me to leave a rating like that if you had nothing to base it on. Hmmmmmm . . . . very interesting! -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs