Photoshop Filters & Fakes

[tsminla]

Hi everyone! As one of the several hundred artist creating ACEOs on Ebay, I would like to ask a small, yet I feel extremely important question, to all LAGITIMATE artists. How and why is it that some of the new sellers of ACEO’s are obviously using Photoshop filters on photos and printing them out calling them original or limited addition works of art? I have reported the once that I see and have not gotten any response from ebay, nor have the sellers tried their hand at being an honest artist, and not a rip off artist. Does this not bother anyone else??? Or do I just need to get over it, mind my own business and move on? Thanks for letting me vent! Tom

[poozybear]

Hi Tom! We recently had a lengthy discussion on this, and the answer is NO, legitimate artists do not approve of this. Sadly, there are a lot of artists out there doing exactly what you describe . . . printing out Photoshopped images and adding a little colored pencil work to try to pass them off as original drawings. There was one in particular that we were talking about who sells male nudes, colors over them with pastels, and sells them as original works of art (the fraud is so blatant that this guy often has the same piece listed more than once, claiming both to be "originals"). This particular seller has been at it for over a year now. Ebay never removes this stuff. For what its worth, these sellers often get what is coming to them after a few buyers figure it out and leave them enough negatives to put them out of business. There was a seller here a few years ago doing wildlife ACEOs this way. They sold to a few of the artists in this group who immediately recognized the fraud and left them negative feedback. I have not seen that "artist" in quite some time, so I think they're gone. It's just very unfortunate that collectors are usually not able to tell the difference. -- Kathy

[artful*paper*doll]

Just curious but how do you know the artists are not using photos they took themselves? Photography is an art too and so is digital image manipulation. I would bet there will be more and more of that surfacing as an art form so I guess you have to ask yourself what is it about these artists that bothers you most? Do you feel they are taking something away from you? If so, what could they possibly have the power to take from you unless you give them the power to take it? What have you gained that has positively affected you by reporting them? I am not saying e-Bay does not have plenty of unscrupulous sellers out there because I have had personal experience with such people. I reported them to e-Bay as well and the only thing that happened was a major headache and stress for me. That effort did nothing but hurt me and nothing positive came out of it. I have seen some really beautiful things done using Photoshop and I have no problem with digital art. If you can't beat it, embrace it. Just my humble 2 cents worth. =D -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs www.papercatdesigns.blogspot.com

[artistjillian]

It bothers the HECK out of me. I would throw bricks at these 'artists' if I could. They are liars, cheats, frauds, thieves. They probably tell themselves something like that buyers 'deserve' to get taken to the cleaners if they fall for this fakery. I don't care who used a filter then calls it exactly as it is. For instance I 'woodcut' an image the other night, that turned out simply super, now working out what to do with the result. But anyone who is passing of this stuff as legitimate original work are the same as someone comitting forgery - they are getting money under false pretenses. We know it's fake. And probably eBay would know it is fake. But, as I found out when I reported one a few years back - UNLESS I have the item in my hand and proof of it being fake - OR the image is from MY copyrighted image, nothing can be done. This is where buyer not getting negatives any more, can WORK - as you can buy then leave 'appropriate' feedback, and they can only leave a positive - or nothing. However their comments for the positive might tell you to go stick your head where the sun don't shine! :) I really try not to boil and get upset over it. There are guides on fake art (on eBay) - some people put links to them in their auctions or on thier 'about me' website. This can possibly help spread the word. ms*patricia has links on her 'about me' page I think. -- ~Jillian artist, Jillian Crider ... google me!

[poozybear]

Kellie, we're not talking about true digital art. We're talking about people who print out a photo, then color over it with colored pencils, pastels, or watercolor, and claim that it is an original drawing or painting. Even if you took the photograph yourself, it is still fraud to go over it with colored pencils and sell it as an original drawing, when it is in fact, a photograph. -- Kathy

[artful*paper*doll]

You are right, technically it is not a drawing and it sounds like it maybe should be categorized differently but I don't see the fraud in it at all if the photograph is their own. It doesn't appear that the feeling would change here even if it was categorized differently. I appreciate the comments. I wish you all the best of luck in arriving at a positive solution that works to your advantage. -- Cheers! = ] Kellie Paper Cat Designs www.papercatdesigns.blogspot.com

[poozybear]

Well, look at it this way. I'm a professional photographer. If I took one of my squirrel photos, colored over it, and listed it as an original drawing, that would be a lie, as I didn't draw it. Now, if I wrote in my listing "You are bidding on a hand-colored print of my own original photograph," that would be truth. But if I said, "You are bidding on an original drawing by artist so-and-so," that is fraud, no two ways around it. If these sellers told the truth about what they are selling, then the collector would know up front that it's an altered photograph, and may be okay with it. But speaking for myself, if I paid good money for something that was advertised as a OOAK illustration, yeah, I'd want to throw bricks too. -- Kathy

[angelacmoore]

Yes,I'm with Kathy."Digitally manipulated photograph by x", "Hand-coloured print", "photograph and mixed media" are all fine, as long as x owns the photographic copyright. Calling it a Watercolor - no. There are Wedding photographers who do just this - they charge several hundred bucks for a "Watercolor" version of one of the photos of the bride and groom, which is merely a digital manipulation. I don't think most of them even know it's acheat.

[artistjillian]

Hi Angela, where you been? I've missed you! -- ~Jillian artist, Jillian Crider ... google me!

[drawdog5]

Truth in advertising is all we want - is that too much to ask? It really steams me and it's not fair to buyers who think they're getting a true original. I'm posting this as it was posted in another group and taken from yet another group. It's long, but very informative. It does start out referring to using other artists photos/art without permission, but it also discusses misrepresentation of digital/digitally altered images ________________________________________ A special thanks to Sandra, (arielart) for drafting this for all of us. 1. copyright violations -- Copying or altering all or any of someone else's art, photography or other image =COPYRIGHT VIOLATIONS. There is a small number of ACEO artists who are using other artist's work. Please read the copyright thread and be aware that our customers are using Vero to turn these artists in. If you are taking the image of anyone's work and repainting it, this is a good time to stop. (Remember pictures from magazines or peoples websites is also infringing on copyrights.) 2. misrepresentation of work We want all our collectors to be satisfied with what they purchase so that they become repeat purchasers of all of our ACEOs. Even one or two artists who misrepresent their art or are not clear about what they are selling can truly reflect on every ACEO artist. It has been brought to our attention that some artists are claiming their work is original, but when the customer receives the art, it is not an original. In addition we've had some buyers purchase digital art, thinking it was original hand created art. Now it's the customer's fault if they don't read the title and description, but the cases we are talking about didn't have anything to do with the customer misunderstanding. It has to do with defrauding the customer. So if you are doing this, this is a good time to take stock. Heads up, artists are being turned in. Ebay is also addressing this issue and has a new tutorial about VeRo and intellectual property rules: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/questions/vero-ended-item.html?ssPageName=CMDV:AB With these recent concerns in mind, the mods of the ACEO group have some recommendations. The Use of the word "ORIGINAL" When selling on ebay it is very important to be very clear about what you are selling, especially when it comes to art. Original art is a unique piece. It is one of a kind. It was created ONLY by you! There is only one! If you say this is an ORIGINAL OIL painting or that it is an ORIGINAL ACRYLIC painting... it can NOT be a print of your original. Original -means that it is the first derivation of the medium: pencil, paint, ink. An original is the medium in it's first form. Original does NOT mean painting over a print of your original work. Originals are NOT embellished re prints - Some artists will add brush strokes to make a print unique. These are called "Embellished Reprints. Other uses of the word Original in your title may fit in ebay's new tutorial on key word spamming. If it is a print, it is not an original. If you paint on a print. It is an altered print. If it is a digital work, please call it "digital art" If it has been mechanically altered, call it mechanically altered. If you are using a photograph, and painting on it please call it altered art. For those artists who make the argument that 'original' is anything "I create with my hands", remember Vero, your ebay customer and the ACEO group have certain "expectations" about what an original is. So please be very clear in your listings. Now I know that 98 percent of us are just trying our best just to be clear in our listings. For those artists who are misrepresenting... and you know who you are. This is a heads up. Vero and the customers are now getting involved. So save yourself a whole passel of trouble. Just a few additional clarifications: Be careful about using OOAK (One Of A Kind) if you intend to produce similar work another time. Here are some terms you may want to be aware of: Altered art- manipulation and embellishment of a found image Mixed media- using two or more mediums in the creation of a piece of artwork Collage- a composition using found and/or original imagery If you feel you have purchased art that has been misrepresented you can take action by asking the seller for a refund and/or using the ebay Vero process to report it. In summary: DO NOT PRINT ANOTHER ARTIST'S WORK to use in your own! Do not use even a PORTION of another artist's work in your paintings/sketch/collage. You cannot "cut and paste" even a smidgeon of another artist's work. The thread is locked. There is another thread for discussion of this topic: Discussion of Misrepresenting ACEO art. If you choose to discuss this topic please remember that you may not identify a seller by ID on ebay and that we will need to take care to discuss this emotional topic. The ACEO Mods -- -Ann "Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat." ~ Robert A. Heinlein -- Edited by drawdog5 at 09/06/2008 11:04 PM PDT

[kengillam]

It would seem that if ebay does nothing about this sort of fraud then the only solution is to buy one and leave a negative, and ding stars, if this is done by a few that may curtail it. -- http://www.artyman.co.uk

[mazoommzee]

If it is a digital work, please call it "digital art" Two examples ~



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150291766807&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=005 'Digital Art' appears in the heading and the process is briefly explained in my listings. -- My hedgeblog: http://aerialarmadillo.blogspot.com

[artistjillian]

There is also 'embellished print'. While that is great information it still is not rules to live by. It is what we HOPE happens, but is not so. For instance, at art schools, prints are often called originals and this is common practice in some circles. And there is information to back that up. So while the information is great information, there are people who will not comply, and, indeed, they have no set inclination to comply as they are not going to be prosecuted. All this may be defunct, even copyrights if they bring in the orphan art rule. You will no longer have copyrights of your own work, and fraudsters can pretend they tried to contact you but couldn't and so gained copyright and use of your work. Go sign up to beat the passing of this law! www.owoh.org GO SIGN THE PETITION! Read about it here ... www dot artcalendar dot com/article.asp?ID=90 -- ~Jillian artist, Jillian Crider ... google me!

[poozybear]

It would seem that if ebay does nothing about this sort of fraud then the only solution is to buy one and leave a negative, and ding stars, if this is done by a few that may curtail it. I agree Ken. Ebay won't pull down a fraudulent ACEO. They'd rather keep the fees. I've only seen auctions pulled where there is fraud against a major corporation. Bootleg Disney movies get removed in a heartbeat. And eBay just learned a hard lesson in losing the Louis Vuitton lawsuit. With ACEO scammers, I think the only way to shut them down is to do exactly what you suggest . . . buy an item and neg them. It's a drastic step, and one that most people wouldn't do, but if I saw a fellow artist get burned by one of these people, yeah, I'd do it, especially now that the buyer can't be negged back. -- Kathy

[drawdog5]

I just don't want to give these scammers any of my money, even it it is just to get fraudulent art and neg them. In another group we talked about creating a separate id, like IHateArtFraud or ArtFraudCop to preserve our real identities and buy scam art with the purpose of negging the seller. It was a fun discussion, but nothing ever came of it. For my part, I do what I can to educate. I have links to a couple of guides on my Me page and plans to write my own guide about the practice of painting/drawing over a print and calling it original. -- -Ann "Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat." ~ Robert A. Heinlein