I DARE YOU...

[harmoniousjosh]

Well, we knew it was coming. Artists with any sense of integrity, read no further. Here's the deal: you think of an idea for an aceo, the more absurd the better, and dare another artist to create that image. The artist lists that image, the dare-er is obligated to place the first bid. Issues to be resolved: Starting bid. It's been established that I'll pay to make an aceo for someone, while others start the bidding more becoming an artist with a modicrum of self-esteem. We could either establish a set beginning price, or have the price be negotiated beforehand. Before we make it official, any other ideas from the peanut gallery? harmoniousjosh http://harmoniousjosh.blogspot.com/

[robsfweak]

Me, again. I read this in the ACEO group (but I thought that it was posted here, too, though I can't find it): Shilling - what can happen to you - LONG It was posted on May 15 by wee_cottage. Sorry, but I don't know how to post this thread to this discussion, but, if you check into ACEO, and search the discussions, you'll find this. The artist was really very helpful in posting this and sharing the information; personally, I had no idea about shilling until reading this story. And again, this was a misunderstanding of the policy, not any attempt at deception and/or fraud! Thanks for reading! Penny 🙂

[harmoniousjosh]

Aw, crapola. Penny, I think yo're right. I stopped taking the quiz at question 10. Thanks, Elliot Spitzer, for looking out for the little guy! Well, we could do it without the bids, I guess. But the very existence of the dare could make every bid by the dare-er suspect. And ebay is very anti-seller, so... Guys, I don't think we can do this. Creativity stiffled for the illusion of security once again.

[jeanze]

I think the real points (beyond hilarity) of this are providing inspiration and challenge to artists, a prod to be productive, getting the art work out on eBay, having it seen by lots of people, generating interest in the artist through a sense of PLAY and FUN and HUMOR. Make people laugh, and they'll remember you forever. Or at least for a long, long time. AND they will keep coming back for more. Whether or not I have what it takes to achieve this, I have my doubts, but there are definitely those here who DO have that gift of comedy, and they will have a golden opportunity to shine and promote themselves through this challenge. That opportunity to promote is lost if it's a swap rather than a sell. At least that's my thinking, but I've been known to be wrong. (I didn't admit that until I was well past 40, though. 😉 ) Whatever Jillian and Josh decide, my offer to help organize I Dare You is still on the table. I think it will be a blast!

[jeanze]

Josh, our posts crossed along the wires. I just gotta' ask how this would be any different than someone suggesting a theme, people creating art for that theme, and then the person who suggested the theme bidding on the themed art cards. But if it's going to be a bone of contention, best to bury it, I guess. I'll lend my Pomeranian for that task. She loves to bury stuff. In a word... bummer.

[katat0nik]

I thought it would be ok if the darer bid, since it would be like a commission. Oh well:| How about a Dare Swap then? I think a lot of fun artwork could come out of this...:D

[harmoniousjosh]

jeanze, I agree that there's no real difference. Of course, I don't see much difference between most laws/rules 'regulating' markets. No one is forcing a perspective bidder to place a bid. But that's a debate for another forum. I'm not too keen on the idea of simply exchanging cards because I would want anybody to have the opportunity to purchase the aceo, including people not involved in the dare. That's part of the whole point - not just to see what we're capable of creating, but to expand our own notions of what people are interested in owning. Let's wait to hear from Jillian. When I saw Spitzer's name associated with question number 11, I got really bummed out. So right now I'm a bit of a downer.

[art*teanne]

How would this sound? With Jillians approval of course. Make it like a "Secret Santa" type of thing. Only a "Secret Dare" Everyone post their dares on one thread and the participants on another thread. (1 week time frame) Then toss the dares into a hat and Participants into another hat. (2 people could do this and correspond by email) Matching up the dare with the Participant. At least 5 days to do the artwork. Then list.

[robsfweak]

Me, again, THIS ALL DEPENDS UPON JILLIAN... Sorry that I pointed out all of the problems, and offered no solutions, so, does this sound possible? BTW, good ideas jeanze, art*teanne, and, of course, h-josh (that's your rap name). And, jeanze, I do agree with you, but, I guess that the group challenges are somewhat different in that individuals aren't preplanning a bid, and at a set price (though ACEO challenges do start at .99 cents, but the contest is for unique bids, not highest dollar amount, and I know that you know this, but just in case someone else doesn't). 😞 Sigh... Anyway, how would it be (with Jillian's blessing) to have a challenge sign up list AND a dare list. Anyone who wants to play signs up during a specific time period, set by the leader/mods. When that list closes, a second list is opened (dare list) and the first person who signs up states his/her dare and the artist (who already signed up on the on the challenge sign up list) whom he/she would like to complete the dare card. Once an artist is "dared," he/she cannot be dared again, the vile "double dog dare," unless he/she signed up more than once. So, sign up once, make one card, if dared, twice, up to two cards (dared twice), and so on. My personal opinion would be that the artist who lists the card should price it to his/her desire, and, that the person who offered the dare wouldn't have to be the first bidder, or wouldn't have to bid at all, no premeditation, which, hopefully would translate into no shilling (by eBay standards), no fraud, or no any other bad stuff. Whatever is done in these groups, it seems obvious that we don't want any potential customers to be fearful that something we're creating is somehow shady. Sigh (again)... That's my one cent! Penny 🙂

[stvictor]

Would it be considered a shill if we disclosed in the discription the details: i.e. <<<>> We can also add the "dare" in our title. Myrna

[dartnkatz]

You could also do it in a single list. The first person makes a dare, then someone accepts that dare and states the next dare and so on. Then it's like a different way of doing a challenge since on one is obligated to bid. And you could accept as many dares as you are willing to make cards.

[dartnkatz]

oops.....should be "no one is obligated to bid"

[artistjillian]

Here are my thoughts so far... I am into doing 3 threads. One for the DARES. (Needs to be nothing to do with things against ebay rules, that might get listings pulled) One for the DARE TAKERS. One for the DARE ACEOs. As soon as there are 5 dares, and 5 dare takers, then the names are 'put into a hat' and matched up. In those 5 dares there are to be no more than 2 dares, or 2 dare taker duplications. So that dare #3 might be assigned to dare taker #1. There is 7 days to make and list the ACEO. If the dare is not completed the dare taker can't enter again for 7 days. There will not be any 'listing' specifications so that all can participate, out of fairness, and no rules are breached. THOUGH ... 'DARE' and 'ACEO' MUST go in the title, along with the NUMBERED dare. For example the first dare challenge will be 1, the 2nd set of 5 will be 2, etc. In the description you must put the ebayid of the person who's dare you took, stating that is what you are doing. If this is against listing rules by giving another's id, then please let me know, and I'll rethink this. I will also work on a logo - like with the challenge for you to include if you like. Or if someone else wants to do one, feel free. Thoughts on this? Please......

[artistjillian]

No, I take that back - no duplications in the 5. Will be too difficult to make sure a darer doesn't get thier own dare.

[stvictor]

Sorry my example above disappeared, I suppose because I put it in-between brackets. It was pretty much what Jillian is saying, but she says it so much better so I won't even bother to repeat my example. I didn't know you couldn't put anything here in-between brackets. Myrna

[harmoniousjosh]

I just got back from a night of carousing. Quite the bachanal. Everything Jillian said sounds good to me, although I have a minor concern with the hat drawing thing. As is obvious to anyone who reads these threads, Mick and I are bitter enemies. If I were in charge of the name pulling, I would totally rig it so he got the dare he would like the least. Just saying. And who knows how many enemies I've created, dragging the ACEO culture through the mud with BELLY PUNKER. But the disclosure should do the trick re shilling. Sorry I got a little soap-boxy about that.