cut to square

[greatexpectations]

someone please define "cut to shape" for me . I saw a few examples today and they sure look like a "cut square", not "cut to shape". thanks from a long time lurker. Todd~

[msgtdavid]

If you are referring to Stamped Envelopes and Wrappers, then it has been  cut to the image itself without leaving any of the envelope non printed paper remaining.

Hope this helps.

DAVID THOMPSON

MSGT/USAF/RETIRED

[malolo]

I would like to suggest that cut sqaures are from postal envelopes or postal cards and cut square, I think, 2 inch squares. Some people collect these and others consider them damaged covers!

Cut to shape are stamps such as GB imperforate embossed 6d, 10d, and 1 sh, that were cut the shape of the design, rather than as a square.

[greatexpectations]

ok I am looking at one ob ebay (one on the left) but the seller is calling it ,cut to shape. to me its a cut square. Am i wrong? here's the link.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1854-UK-GREAT-BRITAIN-QV-Scott-7-Red-Violet-Used-Cut-to-Shape-Tied-to-Piece...

[xbolts]

YES YOU ARE WRONG, it is cut to shape. The stamp was cut to shape and stuck on a envelope to mail. Many countries were aloud to do this to send mail out. I have seen many kinds of stamps used this way. A cut square is a stamped envelope or postcard and maybe gov. paper with rev. stamp imprinted on it, and cut out in a square or maybe a corner of the envelope. Hope this helps.

[malolo]

Switzerland postal envelopes never had the indicia cancelled because they could never be used on envelopes as stamps! The designs are totally different from any stamps issued.

The top image shows examples where the date stamp is on the outgoing letter. Clerks stamped each stamp and an extra date stamp off to the side to make the originating PO legible.

The 5 centimes is for local letters within 10km.

The second cover is for 10 centimes domestic letter.

The third is for post-UPU international letter.

The second scan shows multiple stamps cancelled but not the 30 centimes indicia. This cover is a pre-UPU double weight letter. 30 centimes cover plus 30 centimes in stamps.

Therefore, in collecting Swiss, one collects the envelopes, as mint or used but not cut squares, because they are always "not used" so it can't be determined if they were used or not! The only time you will see any cancellation on an indicia will be due to sloppy work and usually that will be a carryover from an adjacent stamp. 

[greatexpectations]

OK, let me get this right.it IS cut square BUT considered cut to shape because it was hinged, glued, stuck, or whatever to another envelope? and if the back wasn't "...defaced" or it was clean ....it would be considered "a cut square"

thanks again, todd

[thines]

Yes, it is a cut square because the item is square. It is NOT cut to shape. If it was cut to shape the user would have cut away all the surrounding non-design paper - a tedious process which was sometimes (often?) done. The seller is simply wrong to call this cut to shape. Whether an item is considered a cut square or cut to shape has absolutely nothing to do with whether it was defaced (do you mean cancelled???), or clean, or printed in red on purple paper, or shows a picture of Santa Clause. The terms mean exactly what they say. If it's square, it's a cut square. If it's cut to the shape of the printed stamp, it's cut to shape.

[dkru]

greatexpectation,

The linked image is not a cut square; it is clearly cut to shape.  If you examine the image closely, you can see bits of shadow around the outside edge of the design where the paper was close cut to the design.

Regards,

dkru

[greatexpectations]

now none of this makes sense???????????....everyone has different opinions....isnt cut to shape-following the stamps shape around it? and cut square -cut into a square around the stamp??

[jaywild]

A cut square has a fairly precise definition, as mentioned by others.  The purpose of the cut square is to collect examples of PSEs (pre-stamped envelopes) and postcards without having to deal with the “entire”.  But a critical aspect of the cut-square definition is, regardless of the 2 x 2 inch definition, that there be wide margins around the entire design.  Obviously a cut square of the postcard below would of necessity need to be longer than 2 inches in one dimension.

IMO the item shown to start this thread is cut-to-shape.  First it does not meet the primary criterion of the cut square that there be ample margins around the entire design.  It is obvious that the collector wanted to cut the example as close as possible to the design (a very popular habit in the early days of collecting) but didn’t, out of laziness or some other reason, care to cut away the white paper from the more intricate parts.

[jaywild]

I must amend my previous remarks, having not looked closely enough at the auction before replying.  I see that the item was in fact cut to shape then affixed to another piece of paper, most likely another cover and used for postage.  Then the whole shebang was cut from the new cover, but adhering to the cut-to-shape rather than the cut-square pattern.

The other information in my earlier post is still valid.

[malolo]

I feel the need to clarify what is shown in the eBay auction. 

It has every appearance of being cut to shape and glued onto a square piece of paper. That does not make it a cut square. If soaked off the backing paper it is cut to shape, whether or not it is glued onto a piece of square paper. 

Any of the stationery covers I showed could be cut to shape, or as cut squares, depending on how the collector chose to butcher the cover!

These sheets of GB embossed paper were so out of alignment that many touched and even overlapped in some cases making it impossible to cut a square shape of paper. People in those days would not have bought a sheet of 6d, 10d, or 1sh stamps since they all had specific reasons for existing, different rates for different parts of the Empire. Domestic postage was 1d for a letter and rarely were any of these embossed stamps used on domestic mail. One must also be careful to not end up purchasing a postal stationary cutout thinking they are buying an embossed stamp!

BTW - I don't see how the seller can claim it is tied to the piece. The numeral cancel is dead center on the stamp.

[dbenson]

The British embossed were printed one at a time onto the sheet, they often overlapped the adjacent impressions,

David B.

[billsey]

Cut to shape refers to items where the design isn't rectangular and the paper has been trimmid to match the design shape. Here are a couple of examples ripped from an eBay offering: