Reporting US Forever Stamp Sales that Appear to be Counterfeit. (Keep the Discussion to Stamps only)

[bobdenneu]

I know this topic has been discussed by various Categories and Forums over the years, but I think it belongs here on the Stamp Board.  For the past couple of months I've noticed an increasing number of listings for US Forever Stamps that appear to be Counterfeits.  It's not only occurring on eBay, but also on Amazon, Walmart, Etsy, and other sites devoted to discounts on stamps.  Most of the suspicious sales have been sourced out of China but sales also are showing up from US sources.

Some Users, mainly from China and some from the US, show blatant disregard to the eBay Selling Policy and eBay certainly doesn't have Stamp Experts determining what is real or fake.  Because no one at eBay appears to be monitoring suspect sales, I believe it is up to the Stamp Community to let them know what listings fall into the 'To Good to be True' category.   

I've had conversations with eBay regarding suspect Counterfeit Sales to determine the best method to deal with suspicious listings.  They told me that using the "Report Item" button on a listing will inform them that the item being sold should be investigated.   

To Report an Item. 

Press the 'Report Item' button above 'Item Specifics' on the listing in question.

File a Report Page Appears.

     Report Category

          I select 'Prohibited and restricted items'

     Reason for Report

         I select 'Stamps, currency, and coins'

     Detailed Reason

         I select 'Other currency and stamp concerns'

     Brief Description

         You can enter your suspicions here.

     Submit

With that bit of knowledge I have been reviewing listings in the US Postage Category.  It isn't hard to determine items that are suspected of being Counterfeit.  I concentrated on US Forever Stamps Sales looking at the listing price or sales price versus face value.  All the Flag stamps from primarily 2017 thru 2022, most of the Booklets from 2019 thru 2022, and a lot of Sheets from 2020-2022 are suspected of being Counterfeited . The old adage 'You'll Know it when you see it" applies.  At first Buy it Now items selling at approximately half face value were no brainers.  Then I had to decide how to determine if sellers using the Auction format got around the obvious hall price sale.  That took a little more investigation.  It helped to look at the seller's 'Sold Listings".   If the amounts received from Auction sales still had huge discount repeatedly, then its suspicious.   One-offs do occur where a seller just wants to dump stamps for whatever reason.  That's why looking at not only the current listing but See Other Items listed for sale and Sold Listings are important to review

The Stamp Community has to step up and make an effort to stop Counterfeit Listings.  If eBay receives multiple Report Item complaints they may actually act.   You should be concerned if you are a Seller because your prices are being undermined.   If you are a Buyer, your concern would be not knowing if what you bought was real.   

In additional posts, I will let the Board know what I've discovered fighting this problem and hopefully persuade the Community to act. 

[rewlife]

There are also those of us who try to sell legitimate stamps (verified at my local post office) that I purchased at a liquidation store. Someone on here reported my listing and eBay took it down and they won't even let me prove that they are valid and threatened to suspend my account if I relist. Customer service straight up told me there was an eBay community complaint. I was not undercutting anyone (My rolls were listed at $58, and others were as low as $50).

So basically, the few that make eBay way more than me can dictate who sells what. I am assuming that selling counterfeit USPS Postage stamps is illegal, so eBay and you guys literally accused me of committing a federal crime with zero proof and no way to prove my innocence.

I have several positive feedback on the stamps I have sold. and a 100% feedback rating over 650 times. Looks like I'll be doing more and more Amazon and other platforms.

[thines]

No local post office has the technical ability or expertise to verify that current US stamps are not counterfeit. Modern counterfeiting is so sophisticated that it requires highly specialized equipment to determine whether a current US stamp is fake or not. 

[bobdenneu]

I always maintained that there are one-off sales being made by Sellers to get rid unwanted stamps.  Looking at your Completed Sales History shows me that you would not have been reported by me.   I  am kept busy finding enough suspicious selling of US Forever Stamps sourcing from China, Hong Kong, the Philippines, Australia et al.  However, appearances do matter.  Someone or maybe even eBay themselves would have noticed that all your reported Forever Stamp sales have known existing counterfeits out there.  The fact that they were forever stamps sold at a discount and in quantity does ring a bell.

Verification of legitimacy by the local post office doesn't mean anything unless they scanned with ultraviolet light and knew what to look for.  I have yet to find a Post Office that knows how to check stamps and when asked where I could go to find out, they have no idea.

In case you didn't know, eBay does have a Stamp Policy and specifically designates that Forever Stamps can only be sold by eligible sellers.

[jaywild]

I've said it before but it bears repeating, and then I will shut up. It simply does not make sense to mount a large scale operation to make a few paltry dollars from the sale of counterfeit postage stamps. Your obsession has led you to falsely accuse a legitimate seller of a federal felony, as his protest has recorded here.

A high horse is the poorest vantage point for seeing what is going on in the real world.

No need to reply because I won't see it.  I've made my point, and I've heard yours already, at great length.  Enough is enough.

[thines]

I'll reply anyway. Bob made it clear in his post that he had not accused this person of anything. Apparently Ebay had taken action on its own.

[malolo]

I see in the post above - "There are also those of us who try to sell legitimate stamps (verified at my local post office) that I purchased at a liquidation store"

Not passing any judgement on seller or post office employees, but buying stamps from a liquidation store is not where I buy my stamps. This is like me making forgeries, and selling to people who then resell with the third person saying - "I bought them from a dealer who advertised the stamps "as is". This used to be the eBay mantra from sellers who were passing on fake stamps until eBay stopped that choice of words. Buyers saying they didn't feel they were cheated is no proof of authenticity.

I guess if one wants stamps at discount one can most certainly go to any stamp show and go through dealer boxes and get as much postage as they want at a discount. Flag coils by the 100 from other than a post office is asking for problematic stamps. BTW - If one can't sell the coils any more, they can always be used as postage on one's eBay mailings.

[malolo]

Linn's Stamp News - July 2022 - 

https://www.linns.com/news/us-stamps-postal-history/tagged-counterfeits-label-nods-to-potential-sour...

Notice that this website sells 100pcs for $29.99 no matter face value of the stamp!

https://www.artofsmith.com/product-category/lighting-and-accessories/?per_page=24

somehting to ponder how many liquidation stores this seller went to to have a continuous supply to sell.

[msgtdavid]

Wow

[billsey]

I think that last one is just another one of the scam sites. Their domain was registered only a short while ago and likely any 'deals' you get from them will either never arrive, or be like the stamps, forgeries... There are a lot of unscrupulous types that put those short duration sites up, sell a lot of merchandise in a hurry, then never deliver or deliver empty boxes, then shut down and disappear...

[eburtonlab]

I think that last one is just another one of the scam sites.

The picture on that site's "About us" page is a 2018 stock image taken directly from pexels.com.

https://www.pexels.com/photo/group-of-people-watching-on-laptop-1595385/

[rewlife]

Ok, so US Flag stamps are the most counterfeited apparently, so I get the caution. The post office I took it to asked if they could open the roll. I said yes. I told them where I got it and wanted to verify the authenticity. They took it to the back for 4 or 5 minutes while I waited and when they returned, stated that they are authentic.

That being said, that does not explain why eBay took down my other listings of stamps that were flat books of Valentine hearts, Flower stamps, etc..

Also, when eBay first took my listing down, I called and received an email telling me how to legitimately list Forever Stamps, as I had them under the wrong category due to using sell similar on another listing. So I corrected it by putting it in the right category and got the same result. In fact, that is when they took my other listings down.

[racer-ex]

Did you miss post 45 stating the USPS looses 350 million a year to counterfeits?  maybe that's paltry to you but to me it seems like motivation enough. 

[bobdenneu]

Interesting note in Linn's Stamp News "Top Stamp Stories of 2022".   

"One of the big items was the explosion in the quantity of United States stamp issues being counterfeited. This increased exponentially in 2021 and took off in 2022 with most new stamp issues being faked.

Many of the counterfeit stamps are being sold at 50 percent of face value through multiple online outlets. The Scott catalog editors included a note in the 2023 Scott Specialized Catalogue of United States Stamps and Covers stating that the print version of the catalog would “only list denominated and earlier counterfeits.” In other words, new examples of counterfeited forever stamps would not be listed in the print catalog. The digital edition will continue to list known counterfeits of all U.S. stamp issues."

Quite interesting about most 2022 new stamps being faked.  Other than price, how would those fakes be identified?  Better yet, who has the equipment, the time and the skill find the Counterfeits?

Bring on 2023.

[bobdenneu]

For those interested.  The end of the year has brought on a rush of new Sellers and selling of US Forever Stamps.   Here are a few stats since Christmas day:

158 Total Suspected Counterfeit Listings

142 Listings were for 2017-2022 Flag Coil Rolls

103 Listings had no Previous Feedback (Most were New Sellers)

 20 Listings were from the Philippines

 16 Listings were from the UK

  3 Listings were from Hong Kong

Almost all of the items in Total Listings were selling/sold for at least 50% off face value.  The UK Listings were primarily for 10 Rolls of Flags each time and between 5-10 Sets of 10 Rolls each listing.  They totaled approximately 1,000 Rolls. The UK sales were priced at $189-$199 per 10 Rolls.  The Philippines Sellers were also actively selling multi-100's of Rolls of stamps.  Both the UK and Philippines had Ship From originations in the US which leads to the US being their Drop Point.  Another factoid is that aside from major discounting, almost all the Listings provided free shipping.  Most of those Sellers with no feedback were one and done.  Sellers from the Philippines are an exception since they are allowed repeatedly to sell Rolls of Stamps using the same ID's.   Almost all the UK Seller ID's are one and done, but it appears that all are from the same source.   China sellers have mostly been absent in December, but they had a flurry of listings in November.

Ebay is catching on to the strategies but because of the steep discounting the Sellers sometimes sell out before eBay can end the listings.  When eBay takes action, they sometimes remove a Seller without a trace.  Nothing shows up with an advance search.   Other times the item in question has a "Cannot be Found" message in Completed Listings, or the Seller's profile shows "No longer a registered user".  

[bobdenneu]

Linn's  Stamp News referenced this from the US Federal Register.

Background

In recent years, the use of counterfeit postage has increased substantially, especially on packages. Use of counterfeit postage is a crime; it reflects an intentional effort to defraud the Postal Service; and it has resulted in a significant loss of revenue to the Postal Service. Typically, such mail does not have an accurate return address. The Postal Service proposes to amend current regulations to distinguish counterfeit postage from mail without any postage affixed and to address the use of counterfeit postage more effectively.

Mail deposited without any postage affixed is endorsed “Returned for Postage” and is returned to the sender without any attempt at delivery (DMM 604.8.2.1). Counterfeit postage differs from the absence of any postage, however, as the former is a criminal attempt to defraud the Postal Service, while the absence of any postage may reflect an inadvertent failure to affix postage. Also, mail with counterfeit postage often does not have an accurate return address, or it has a return address not related to the mailer. To address the problems posed by counterfeit mailings, the Postal Service is amending its regulations to provide public notice that mailings with counterfeit postage will be treated as abandoned; consequently, such mail may be opened and disposed of at the Postal Service's discretion.

Proposal

The Postal Service seeks to distinguish the handling of articles entered without postage under subsection 604.8.2 from those that contain counterfeit postage.

Therefore, the Postal Service is proposing to revise subsection 604.8.4 to provide that when all articles with counterfeit postage are found they will be considered abandoned and disposed of at the discretion of the Postal Service, rather than be returned to the sender as the affixing of counterfeit postage reflects a refusal to pay postage or an intentional effort to avoid paying postage.

The Postal Service is proposing to implement this change effective April 1, 2023.

We believe this proposed revision will provide customers with clarity on the handling of items bearing counterfeit postage.

It seems to me given the scope of US Forever Stamps being Counterfeited, that a lot of mail is going to be tossed in the trash once they figure out how to identify the illegal stamps.  Nothing about going after the sources of Counterfeits.