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Reproduction sets

rascasso
Enthusiast
re: chesspy vz. lichess Dear brethren, I have some interest in this subject - on account of the first major repro set issued, the Lewis chess set copies. I understand the discovery of the Lewis set in its time created such enormous interest in these pieces that large quantities of reproductions in the most various materials were fashioned to sate the hunger of the public for their own Lewis set! andthis interest continues - even the House of Jaques in London has been selling Lewis repros! Considering the difficulty of visiting the British Museum - or the Scottish National Museum now - these copies have been of enormous benefit for a lot fo people, and some of the repros are even very appealing for workmanship and/or material. This Gaudi emanation set discussed has not made a singular historic piece available to the many - it is a high price luxury adornment in very expensive material - of dubious taste (the board) - to cash in on a neorich socialite section of society - that is if it sells. A perfect waste of good mammoth tooth. From an artistic point of view, it wd not make any difference if it was fashioned in ceramics, sea tang or painted horse manure. This set has no pedigree, no inherent reason to be except to gratify the tired eyes of those who've got almost everything - it is a high end version of souvenir trash, and does nothing to bring Gaudi closer to the public, on the contrary. Generally speaking, a repro is what it says - a reenactment of something created before. It may be useful if the original is gone or unavailable, but it will always lack the je ne sais quoi - authenticity, patina, mystics, the hallmark of the original artist, what have You. That is not dependent on the quality and value of the material used - mammoth tooth or resin, this just changes the cash value. If You walk though a town entirely reconstructed on the old lines - like the old town center of Warsaw, destroyed in WW II and reproduced afterwards - You will sense quite strongly where lies the difference. Best reegards to chess collectors galore, and a Great years End to all (polishing their chess sets, no doubt...) Nicholas
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Re: Reproduction sets

rascasso
Enthusiast
alan, the inflated inland shipping price of 75.- US made me wonder if the old chess board was included. I asked the seller - no answer. A chess set like that weighs max. 4 pounds and shd ship in the US of A for 25.- USD. IF there had been an old 1880 masive wood board with a rim frame along...not bad... ahoi Nicholas
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Nicholas The board was not included and the shipping was $95, which does seem high. Alan
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I guess that it was not a reproduction, though.
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I was almost bidding this week on what looked like an antique Zimmermann "The thirty years war" set. I asked the seller if he had more close up pictures and if there was a mark in the hollow relief under the base of the king. After he did not respond on my question, I did some book research about this chess set and found a description with good pictures in "Chessman Art and history" by M. Kloprogge. Only when comparing these pictures it was clear to me this set was a reproduction.
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Re: Reproduction sets

Hi, Robert, I see these metal set occasionally in Paris, and it's good to see a comparison between real and fake. I suppose the problem is that it is possible that the fakers will eventually get wise and copy stuff properly so that even experienced collectors cannot tell the difference between good and fake. Take the fake bone English set in the last Bonhams sale,(lot 134) it was of course spotted by everyone as soon as they viewed it, but it certainly wasn't clear from the catalogue that it was brand new. (just as well that it was 'outed' by the auctioneer.) however, the problem is, that the seller has achieved his aim, in that it is pictured in a genuine chess sale as good and I suppose he, (whoever this cheating b*stard is) could point to the catalogue and lull some unsuspecting buyer into parting with real money for it.
Message 36 of 73
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Pictures help, but seeing a set in real makes all the difference. I am going next week to Paris, maybe I am lucky and find some nice sets....
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Hi, Robert, check this album out before you go. http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/chessspy/2007_0625Paris Mme Mouna in Louvre des Anticaires is the only real chess dealer left. There is a shop opposite the Bourse which occasionally has a set or two. The Marche Port De vanves on Sat and Sun mornings early has sets sometimes.
Message 38 of 73
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Take a look at 280261160978 and 280261177511 It seems to be that someone is selling fresh reproductions (or fakes), still unstained. I have a set of the pattern similar to the first one but MUCH more detailed and more finely carved. The items above seem to be true crap.
Message 39 of 73
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Hi, Kristjan, The turned set seems to have been bleached. look at the close up of the knight, the white bloom is diagnostic of a set that has been left in bleach for too long. It is in any event a pattern that was sold through the British Chess Mag in the 1970s. The small carved set is truly hacked out, and I suspect that it too has been bleached. Don't ask me why anyone would bother with fiddling with such rubbish, because I don't know. I have no idea why these sellers of fake sets think all collectors are blind and stupid. Perhaps we should be thankful that this is the case as they are easily spotted, weather shown on ebay or on well known dealer/collectors sites.
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For what purpose would the pieces be bleached? Seems like if someone were trying to fake an antique they'd be trying to find a way to give them some kind of patina, rather than taking out all the color? Guess I'm not devious enough, but I don't understand what the bleaching is trying to accomplish.
. . .

If you go with the flow you'll either get washed out to sea or be dammed.
Message 41 of 73
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Hi, Duncan, I have no idea why these sets have been bleached and left, (if that is in fact what has been done) Here's a possibility, If the owner thought there was some problem with the colour, replacements etc, and decided to bleach and re stain, but left the pieces in the bleach overnight, which would ruin the surface, realised his mistake and left them as they were, as he lost his bottle. There is no second guessing these people. Why for example would a dealer put four sets all new and similar, extremely rare designs, a type seen once or twice in 20 years, on his site, and then claim they were 18c? (1780-1800) It beats me.
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Thanks Alan, I wondered, or thought, maybe it was some part of the process of making fake sets- like speeding up an aging process or something along that line. Weird. Guess our minds just aren't devious enough to make a go at something like that. Duncan
. . .

If you go with the flow you'll either get washed out to sea or be dammed.
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Hi, Duncan, I have updated my 'books album, All I can suggest is that we all look at as many genuine old pieces to fix in our minds what age actually does to chess pieces. http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/chessspy/DatingSetsFromBooks
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BTW Duncan, Also, if you missed it, this article in scribd has some good pictures to compare a real genuine 18c ivory set with some modern reproductions. Dead link removed by the Moderator. -- Edited by kristjansander at 09/03/2008 3:02 AM PDT
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