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Reproduction sets

rascasso
Enthusiast
re: chesspy vz. lichess Dear brethren, I have some interest in this subject - on account of the first major repro set issued, the Lewis chess set copies. I understand the discovery of the Lewis set in its time created such enormous interest in these pieces that large quantities of reproductions in the most various materials were fashioned to sate the hunger of the public for their own Lewis set! andthis interest continues - even the House of Jaques in London has been selling Lewis repros! Considering the difficulty of visiting the British Museum - or the Scottish National Museum now - these copies have been of enormous benefit for a lot fo people, and some of the repros are even very appealing for workmanship and/or material. This Gaudi emanation set discussed has not made a singular historic piece available to the many - it is a high price luxury adornment in very expensive material - of dubious taste (the board) - to cash in on a neorich socialite section of society - that is if it sells. A perfect waste of good mammoth tooth. From an artistic point of view, it wd not make any difference if it was fashioned in ceramics, sea tang or painted horse manure. This set has no pedigree, no inherent reason to be except to gratify the tired eyes of those who've got almost everything - it is a high end version of souvenir trash, and does nothing to bring Gaudi closer to the public, on the contrary. Generally speaking, a repro is what it says - a reenactment of something created before. It may be useful if the original is gone or unavailable, but it will always lack the je ne sais quoi - authenticity, patina, mystics, the hallmark of the original artist, what have You. That is not dependent on the quality and value of the material used - mammoth tooth or resin, this just changes the cash value. If You walk though a town entirely reconstructed on the old lines - like the old town center of Warsaw, destroyed in WW II and reproduced afterwards - You will sense quite strongly where lies the difference. Best reegards to chess collectors galore, and a Great years End to all (polishing their chess sets, no doubt...) Nicholas
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Re Reproduction sets

hi nicholas if i am at fault as a collector .... then i plead guilty... i detest exact copy repro sets . they undermine the true older collectable sets ,and are made for an easy cash crop harvest for sellers. nothing personal as some sellers who do this ,i like.... so i freely admit my bias. i also freely admit some of them are well made,so my comments have to be fair minded. the problem i have as a collector ,is that buying such fare is not true collecting at all. even worse some buyers will ask questions like .... why buy an ivory calvert ,when the repro is so similar. my only arguement that makes sense is its not the real thing. however these sets sell and as a collector i must accept this ,and the rights of these buyers and sellers to satisfy each others needs. i also must as a collector treat these sellers with respect ,as the buyers too. regarding all other modern fare ,i guess its a matter of taste ,and i have no issues either way . so i dont think any collector has a right to judge these creations ,by simply calling them all rubbish. there are sets created by assorted makers ,hobbyists , etc that have merit ,and their age is not important. as its been said many times before ,there are enough threads to discuss all types of set ... i should know ... as i think i started quite a few of them. ]:)
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Re Reproduction sets

rascasso
Enthusiast
Guy chesspurr, this brings us to the question of why some chess enthusiast will start collecting chess sets. Now with chess clocks for example the matter is easy - only older clocks qualifiy, nobody in their right mind will collect digital timers (I suppose...), and the interest of both preserving and studying former technical achievements of human civilisation is quite clear. Personally I thought the attitude of Ned Munger - as it comes across in his three well illustrated books - is very interesting: every chess set for him marks a stage of his life, as memos in his personal travel diary, and connected to some experience of his - he is collecting memories via chess sets. Teh sotries he tells are quite interesting - often more than the sets themselves... many of which would not be considered worthwhile by exacting collectors. Taken as a whole they are an astounding travelogue through the diversity of chess as a basic human cultural fact. I agree with You that carrying a large checkbook to an acution - or even picking down the ebay offers weekly - is a bit a redux way of collectionism - armchair hunting. Respect to Your fellow man goes without saying - and respecting his foibles or interests as well. But what You are saying is there are no objective criteria, and all subjective criteria are equally valid. So on what base can ches collectors communicate sensibly - just admiring each others catches? or possibloy defining a scale of vailidty, dep. on objective facts and features of chess sets? And I am not saying down the chute with all modern chess sets, obviously. I wd try for a tentative criteria scale that hinges on these terms: - functional practicality for the exercice of the game of chess - as in beauty is founded in functionality. This wd distinguish good tournament sets from bad..., - aesthetic or artistic excellence - historic sets fe like Vishnagatam, Berhampore, Macao, Calvert etc., - representativity of an ethnical time, set of mores or space, - rare materials, - size (size counts...), - unikats by renowned artists (fe Dali's finger set), - authentic homemade handicrafts sets (not hobby sets made by mass produced molds, or prefab parts to assemble etc.) ( that wd include a simple chess set made with bottle corks fe). Now how You value these is an open field - Tournaments apt sets wd rate very high for me because chess is not just a cultural metapher, but also and mainly a competitive game and a an ongoing activity - like music it takes life from two players sitting down over a board - and good equipment improves the flavour of the match. Check for example the super b games of the Russian championship ending today on www.russiachess.org/online or Hastings. cheers Nicholas
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Re Reproduction sets

rascasso
Enthusiast
... re: Calvert by the way, somebody is selling well made Calvert repros on ebay - camel bone, I believe, fashioned to order in India. Look nice, sparkle, smell newish of varnish (I suppose) - and are as false as Russian gold tooth.... No lozenge either.... Cheers again
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Re Reproduction sets

HOS makes some quite fine Calvert copies.
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Re Reproduction sets

rascasso
Enthusiast
.. excuse me, Kristjan, HOS make absolutely nothing, this is a well run and reputable sales organisation - the have everything made, in India mostly. You can have Your own chess design made in India any time, in wood, bone, metal or glass - 50 units minimum. The workshops are spreckled mainly around Ahmedabad, some of them are on the net. Best regards
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Re Reproduction sets

Hi, Guy, I like the Upright repro's, weighted 4 1/4" kings well carved knights heads. and £60 from The Chess Shop in Euston Square.(Chess and Bridge Center perhaps) Sold at a very good price as new (some dealers should take note, not as 'antique repro') Quite why someone would buy a repro of a St George set at $400 when it is still possible to buy the real thing antique and everything at a similar price, is beyond me. However when the price comes down to £60 ,soon, as it inevitably will then they are very buyable.
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Re Reproduction sets

Thanks, Nicholas, I was not aware of that. Can you offer some links to workshops? I do not think about ordering my design, but it sounds interesting and might benefit some member.
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Re Reproduction sets

hi nicholas yes i love playing chess. some 20 hours on the net over this holiday period. collectors have the opportunity to contact each other based upon collectable prefrences . in many cases my friendly mails are ignored ...fine ...collectors previlage ,but i have met a few collectors with similar passion and taste to my own. material does count as my vintage sets collection is based upon the more desirable substances used in the sets making. small .... i prefer quality small to basic large any day . ]:)
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Re Reproduction sets

Hi, Nick. I'm beginning to like you. Best regards Alan D.
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Re Reproduction sets

rascasso
Enthusiast
.. what an accolade.. I am flabbered and gasted... Kristjan : chess piece production works in various channels - there are exporters - sales and logistics - who employ carving shops on a free basis - somehow like the 19th century croft industry - and there are actual makers who have contrived to be their own agents. Some of the biggest are www.checkmateindia.com www.chessncrafts.com/ www.aristochess.com good old B.K. Singh at www.bee-kay.com and lots of others without a website. Aristocraft is a maker, the others are mainly "editors". Of course, turning and carving chess pieces is a minor part of the huge tapestry of handicrafts in India - but big enough to have put paid to European chess piece manufacturies.... there were dozens of them around yet in the 50ies.... and now the Indians are being undercut by chinese pricing. In India You can find endless amounts of chess pieces, because it abounds with crafts shops - from the greatest trash to the most sublime treasures. You can check how a western brand uses indian manpower on HOS Jaques http://markofwestminster.com/chess/main.html and others. All of this of course has nothing to do with chess collecting - more with the global map of quantity sports equipment production in a very competitive market.
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Re Reproduction sets

rascasso
Enthusiast
btw, I have just glanced through www. checkmateindia.com -- all the upright repros from Euston square are there, plus a lot of others - olde english etc. Collectors - sharpen Your eyes....
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Hi, nick, you are the man! RESPECT!
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Re Reproduction sets

rascasso
Enthusiast
Dear Guy and every body interested , going back over this string I have been struck by one sentence of Yours: ...they undermine the true older collectable sets ,and are made for an easy cash crop harvest for sellers. which exemplifies a certain baleful regard towards the evil intentions of chess piece sellers - off and on ebay. Selling chess pieces is no easy cash crop ANYWHERE - it is a constant uphill struggle and a very thin slice of a constantly receding market. Basically, chess as a leisure occupation is on the wane in Europe and the US, even in chess paradise Russia - it has been marginalized and is being overshadowed by - TV, - littlr media presence as a sport or leisure occupation - the media is the message, - no pubs or coffeehouses that welcome its practice, - the lack of tuition in chess for the young by parents, - the low prestige of chess as a leisure occupation among the young, - the numerous online and elctronic games which dominate the games market today - - etc. etc. - or to summarize, playing chess is out, it is not sexy, hip or fashionable All this - plus the fact that chess players have migrated to the net, using electronic chess pieces, has cut down on ever shrinking market for chess pieces. Antique or old chess pieces are always a minor section of the market, but dependent on the larger. So have a bit of mercy on people who sell chess sets - Portobello Road or Euston Square, even the Indian chess manufacturers and sellers - they are all are barely hanging on in an uphill struggle... truly Sysiphus's fate in real live.... its all part of a larger picture, really.... All the gbest as always Nicholas -- Edited by rascasso at 01/02/2008 2:40 AM
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Re Reproduction sets

racasso hi nicholas i dont take any offence by your remarks regarding my personal opinion . please note that i stated clearly it was exactly that. you have a right to your view ,as i do mine. my point regarding exact copy sets has simply been an observation on collecting antique and older sets . if replica copies suit buyers fine , but being honest i am not exactly too worried about modern makers or sellers ,and am only interested in what i want for my collection. the business world is tough ,and i doubt very much if these sellers are too worried about where my next meal is coming from . to see a replica copy queen offered with an antique jaques set just about summed up my contempt at makers who know fine well exactly what they are doing . simply confusing new collectors into thinking they are getting something with true history . surely these makers could offer a little origonality in their wares. mark my words sellers will mess about with these copies and hoodwink poor unfortunate genuine nieve collectors ,into thinking they are getting genuine historic sets ...on occasion . if the market becomes so saturated with these copy sets ,i can ...myself included ...see true collectors getting pretty depressed as each year more of these sets come out ,until just about every antique type of set is copied . all for money .... sorry nicholas to hell with them ..........
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