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Ayres staunton chessmen !!!???

 

The only published reference of any real value to F H Ayres chessmen,

was  in issue V1 no 3 in the July 1997 issue of the chess collector magazine, by Gareth Williams. This publication is for CCI members only.

Way back in the Autumn of 2007 I purchased a disc from a founding CCI member, and noticed this very important reference,since at the time, it appeared to answer an important question, regarding the so called British Chess co, stamped sets.

There is an important point to be made here, which is that it appeared that if any collector had a view on Ayres chessmen, it did not surface here in this group, nor in the Antique Collectors group one either.

So in effect for ten years there was no visible reaction to this article at all.

I recall offering a theory to two persons, one being Tim Millard of the Antique Chess shop, who having heard my view, offered a general speculation that these stamped might be Ayres,in 2009. I also contacted Alan Dewey on this issue.

Alan in 2008 posted the article on his Chessspy site, for all to see.

So one can only speculate if any collectors had any views on this article, or preferred to accept the House of Staunton BCC description,from 1987-2008,which is over a decade later.

In Vol VX11 of the chess collector in 2008 I offered an article titled BCC or not BCC that is the question. I did not attempt in the article to prove the case for Ayres,since it was at the time impossible to do so.

In December of 2009 there was an attempt to prove these unknown stamped chessmen were Ayres, in the now dissolved public group called chess sets.

Not a single scrap of evidence was offered to support this idea, bar that it was obvious.

In 2010 a few collectors who are fellow Picasians,and have  a genuine interest in these sets, discussed the issue, in some depth, and offered a great deal of photographic evidence, from owned sets of this famous maker, to each other, and a general agreement was reached. No harm could come of offering a view on such a crown stamped set, but it would be wise to use caution, when stating as fact such sets are proven Ayres produce.

Last year in private and heated discussion with F Camaratta, I offered compelling and detailed evidence, contesting the House of Staunton description of such sets, having been labelled as BCC, as probably Ayres produce. Being able to read the complete 1895 Strand Gazette article, was a very important refrence,since the size of the maker was considerable.Fellow collector Mick Deasey, kindly offered the the material to me for study.

 

He quite rightly claimed the firm evidence was missing, but I countered this with the idea, that our probable evidence was far more compelling than his, offered on the H O S site.

To make a public statement, I offered a public Picasa Album, called Current research " thinking " amongst active Internet collectors who are CCI members.

On the current public Picasa sites, viewers will see refrences to probable Ayres chessmen, but to date, no proper proven evidence has been found to date. Some collectors have preferred for their own reasons,not to discuss their views in any detail, on their Picasa sites.

 

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Ayres staunton chessmen !!!???

Whilst you and I see many things differently, Guy, we are in agreement on the subject of Ayres, as regards the essentials.

 

Many people will have read Gareth's article on the Ayres' visit over the years, myself included (I bought the same disk when I joined CCI). I suspect it lay dormant for so long because there is no obviously direct detailed information as to the actual chessmen produced that can be used to link them to any real style we come across (although if you look very closely at the image 'Making Chess Men' under magnification, you can make out the style of pieces on the worktable - and they are not Staunton shaped. An image of this, taken from my copy of the original Strand magazine, is shown on my Picasa site album on the Ayres situation and can be enlarged using the magnifying tool there for those interested. Note, however, that the very detailed image is not itself a photo).

 

As you imply, perhaps the greatest information in Gareth's article is on the sheer scale of Ayres' chess-making business. From this it is easy to 'read' that they were a major player at the time. It is only a step further to conclude that as we have many examples of a style of chessmen that are unattributed, and a large-scale maker whose chessmen are unidentified that the two could be linked!  I make this point in the conclusions to my Ayres album as a prime reason for choosing Ayres as candidate (as well as give reasons why I eliminate other makers - this is equally as important, I feel).

 

One day, we probably shall find evidence to prove the case - one way or the other. My own belief is that Ayres probably made a range of styles of Staunton chess-men  - including the BCC Popular sets (which others, including you, concur with), that, unbadged via BCC crown stamps, continued to be sold after the demise of BCC's chess-sets*.

 

I, too, have had a number of private exchanges with Frank C over the issue. His views, which can, and should, remain private here, are pretty firm - they do not, however, change my conclusions which I believe are based on the balance of probabilities as currently known.

 

It's an interesting subject and whatever the outcome of the debate as to the origin of these sets, Ayres was a fascinating and very successful firm - a giant of its day and field.

 

To those interested in background information on the period involved (as well as some good stories, including the original serialization of many by Conan Doyle), I can highly recommend getting hold of The Strand Magazine - I have several volumes: often, they are not expensive.

 

* it would be interesting to know if this style was sold - unbadged - during BCC's chess-set making period. If not, then it might imply that BCC had some sort of 'intellectual property right' over the design even it did subcontract actual production.

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Ayres staunton chessmen !!!???

A further comment on Ayres. In my Picasa  at

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/102034963874507604520/FHAyresLtdACaseForAttributionAndExaminationOfCert...

 

I show a box that has an Ayres dated stamp on it (plus an identical one that appeared on eBay) - the pieces inside are not Staunton pattern, and it is not even certain that they are of Ayres-manufacture/original to the box, but it does show that Ayres were not entirely averse to stamping these boxes. Somewhere, there may well be a marked box, akin to those commonly found with the Ayres-type Staunton men. One collector believes he bought a set with a stamped/labelled box in his collecting 'youth' , but did not have the box shipped to him as it was reportedly in such a poor condition, which is a geat pity. If anyone should have, or have seen, one, I (and no doubt M.Lyons, if not others) would be very pleased to hear of/see it!

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Ayres staunton chessmen !!!???

Guy, I see from the latest CCI magazine (released in electronic form today) that you & Mick have also noticed the English/St George nature of the chess pieces in the Turning Shop image in The Strand article.

 

If you examine the images (including that one) you will see that it is not a 'photograph' as you quote in your letter (as they were unable to reproduce such directly in print at the time) but, rather a reproduced 'drawing'.  It is possible that the artist - who would have been working from an actual photo - simply 'drew' in the shape of pieces he was most familiar with (English/St George) as it might have been considered an immaterial detail, and we are all aware of the considerable license taken with showing chess pieces even in adverts designed to promote them, However, I tend to discount that in view of the considerable detail in all the reproduced images in the magazine - far beyond that absolutely necessary.

 

Did you have any thoughts on this aspect?

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Ayres staunton chessmen !!!???

The “illustrations from photographs” contained in the Strand magazine were produced using the Half-Tone process. This is a lithographic process patented by George Meisenbach in 1882 that enabled photographs to be mechanically replicated in a publishable format. Previously this type of work had been carried out by master engravers working with wooden blocks. Looking at a number of the pictures in the 1895 issue of the Strand, the “Meisenbach” or “M”(believed to be Meisenbach & Co) imprint can be clearly seen, including several of the Ayres pictures in the “How Games are Made” article.  Other pictures in the same article were produced by W & S, or Waterlow & Sons. This was a specialist printing business, formed in 1810, that was the first company to produce a colour half-tone, a reproduction of the 1890 Derby winner for an 1892 publication. They carried on in business until 1961 when they were bought out by De La Rue.

A better description of these pictures might be “photographic reproductions” rather than “illustrations from photographs”. They are definitely not “drawings” and no human hand was at work fiddling about with the shape or style of the chess pieces.

 

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Ayres staunton chessmen !!!???

Keith,

This is a reply to your question in another thread. The documentary info. I have on Ayres are two sets of price sheets. One is from an FH Ayres price list, the other from Thomas Ayres (his father). One is illustrated, one isn't. They were obtained in a "quid pro quo" deal with a non-chess collector. He provided dating evidence based on other items in parts of the catalogue I didn't receive, but I have no reason to doubt him. The info. was provided on a confidential basis and I am unable to copy it out.

 

Mick

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Ayres staunton chessmen !!!???

Mick,

 

That's good news that there is some documention linking Ayres with the style we've come to term 'Ayres style', although it's a pity that can't be shared.

 

I came across some 'Ayres style' pieces this week, found in the same old loft where my 'Jaques carnage' set emanated. From your illustrated sheet can you confirm they're by Ayres? and are you able to date them?

 

Thanks for any help 🙂

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/106891515994002508996/CH10UnknownSparesMoreAtticFind

 

Oh and if anyone has an opinion on the replacment Kings and Queens, let rip!

 

FwJ

 

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Ayres staunton chessmen !!!???

By the way, there has been a glut of these 'Ayres style' sets on eBay in the last week or so. Let me link a few...

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280845316394

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130665747643

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150777459639

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200727103756

 

And again, this set which sold for £130...

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280838296369

 

Coming along like buses now, are they more common than we thought?

 

 

 

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Ayres staunton chessmen !!!???

Keith,

I finally got time to review both the Ayres thread here and your Picasa album today. You have gathered together a significant body of information on "Ayres" sets and provided a lot of detailed dialogue relating to the styles and pieces. It is the most comprehensive collection of information that I have seen on this maker, well done!

I am pleased that you were able to use the information I provided last year on the full Strand magazine article. This provides some fascinating insight into FH Ayres as a company, not included in Gareth's original CCI article. I wondered at the time whether you would need a full copy of the info but you bought your own copy of the book, which is obviously the best solution.

Please feel free, by the way, to use the additional info. I sent to you on FH Ayres estate following his death in 1906. This emphasizes the Ayres company size and importance as a games maker at the time.

Guy told me at the time that you were writing an article for CCI. This has not happened but I would encourage you to put your thoughts into writing. It is time that we had an authoritative article on Ayres and their chessmen from a knowledgeable source.

 

John F,

Illustrations don't always provide the information we crave. Keith has two very good photos of illustrations on his Picasa site, nos. 43 & 56. Unfortunately, neither help us to identify Ayres sets.Perhaps one day we will be able to "put it altogether".

Mick

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Ayres staunton chessmen !!!???

Hello, All. 

As a fan (and relatively accepting) of nearly every kind of chess set - just as I tend to be relatively accepting of the many personalities that tread these chess collector waters - I also like and collect Staunton chess sets. I even dabble in playing a game or two every now and then as some of you may know. 

What interests me at the moment is not how astoundingly high many - if not most - of the asking prices of the chess sets offered by the HOS (House of Staunton) Website) have gotten over the last few years. (Maybe they are trying to "create" the market and demand? Or they are laying early claim to "antiques of the future"?) Granted, they are of high quality. But for the prices, which HOS is asking for new sets, they seem to often approach the realized prices of vintage and antique sets! Well, I guess that is the world of free enterprise, eh? 

So, that is not what currently interests me. 

What does interest me is how seldom - if ever - I see any Ayres (sometimes misspelled as Ayers) sets over here in the USA. I also don't see BCC sets here in the USA (either by USA sellers, or at flea markets which I sometimes attend. 

Now, just why would that be? I ask that because - as relatively infrequently I might come across authentic vintage and/or antique Jaques sets here in the USA, Jaques Staunton sets here in the USA - the Ayres and BCC sets seem to be even rarer. 

So, that is my question, (done in a long roundabout way.) 

Any thoughts on the matter? 

Thanks! John (Vermont) - not the one on Fire! 😉

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Ayres staunton chessmen !!!???

🙂 !!

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