Invalid USPS Cost Adjustments

[inceptions]

Hi brian.t@ebay and tyler@ebay

I don't know how widespread this issue is, but USPS is sending bogus cost adjustment messages for "underweight" packages. I received a message for 10 shipments mailed on 1/29 totaling about $66.

Examples? A packaged pair of socks that weighs 4 ounces they claim weighed 3 pounds 14 ounces! A small catnip toy that weighs 3 ounces, packaged,  they claim weighed 3 pounds 8 ounces. Two packaged tea towels weighing 13 oz they claim weigh 5 lbs 2 oz. All ten packages were shipped First Class mail in padded envelopes weighed on a postal scale and are items I've been selling for years at the correct weighs.

I would attach a screenshot here, but there is too much info I'd need to black out. If you'd like me to forward the whole thing to you, please contact me to let me know how I can provide it.

Since eBay is automatically charging us for these bogus adjustments, I hope eBay will help sort this out with USPS so sellers don't need to spend hours of time on the phone challenging these. I have no problem paying an adjustment if I make an error, but no error was made on these shipments.

Here is a related thread I found this evening that prompted this post:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Member-To-Member-Support/usps-cost-adjustment/qaq-p/30676079/comment-i...

Thanks in advance for any help /insight you can provide!

[mtgraves7984]

Oh, my! Thank you for the 'heads up'...

[wender2you11]

usps cost adjustment

wender2you11
Adventurer
Options

Feb 13, 2020 6:49:09 PM
In the last 2 days i have had several shipments adjusted by USPS. Both where first class under 7 oz and a pound was added to both shipments. Has anyone else been running into this issue. $3 shipping to $8. And on top of that not credit your original shipping back.

Underpaid adjustment: $8.01 (Charged)
Reason: Package weight different from specified
Original weight: 0 lb 4 oz
Actual weight: 1 lb 2 oz

Underpaid adjustment: $5.45 (Charged)
Reason: Package weight different from specified
Original weight: 0 lb 8 oz
Actual weight: 1 lb 7 oz

I have contacted eBay and was told I need to file a claim with usps. 

If you think these adjustments are incorrect, you can contact USPS Customer Care at 1-844-819-5187 or verifypostagehelp@usps.gov to open a dispute. USPS will respond within 5-15 business days. I am now filing and keeping records for each shipment with photo on scale before shipping. It's a pain but don't trust usps to do the right thing as far as these adjustments and past experiences with usps.  How much money in adjustments do you think they billed  that will go unnoticed by sellers ?? 

[wender2you11]

Hope this helps

If your package gets flagged for postage due by the new USPS Automated Package Verification (APV) system, what can you do? While this new machinery is state of the art and catches both underpaid and overpaid packages, there are situations where the scanning tool can have a false positive—a package will be flagged for being shortpaid even though the correct postage was applied.
If this happens to you, the USPS has a formal process for you to dispute the APV program:
Step #1: Locate your tracking number from the package that was flagged.
Step #2: Send an email to VerifyPostageHelp@usps.gov. In the email, make sure you include the following info:
The USPS tracking number of the package
Your contact information
The reason for the dispute (please provide as much detail as possible).
If the USPS needs more info from you, they will contact you directly via email.
Expected Response Times from USPS
You should expect to get a response from the USPS regarding your disputed package within 2 to 5 business days, although the maximum time limit for adjudication will be 15 business days.
Other Info Regarding Automated Package Verification
The USPS will not be providing partial reversals. A customer dispute will either be approved or denied.

[mr_lincoln]

@inceptions   Our post office clerks would advise us of a wrong weight while they scan our packages in ... they caught one once that wound up being two labels swapped on packages, we corrected that right there by swapping labels.

Your situation I suspect is happening at a bulk mail center where the system is fully automated to convey the package over a high speed checkweigher to capture the weight, cube size and scan the tacking bar code.  From there it is sorted by zip code for downstream sorting via a gated conveyor system.  Since we are talking machinery it is highly possible that the checkweigher or checkweighers at a specific facility are malfunctioning OR something has jammed in the machine putting pressure on the load cell (weighing device) ...

[inceptions]

Hi @wender2you11 

Yes, the information about how to challenge the charge is included in the USPS message. In my case, I'll have to waste a considerable amount of time challenge ten shipments.

Hi @mr_lincoln 

Yes, your thought is likely the root cause, but I'm wondering how widespread the problem is. Is it one sorting center? Is it the entire system or zone for a particular date? Is it related to the packages on a particular scan form? Etc... If it's impacting many sellers, I would hope that eBay would help out here as eBay has authorized these charges on our account and as sellers, we have to do all the work to challenge them or else pay them.  I'm thinking sellers should not have to go through this time-consuming challenge process on a shipment-by-shipment basis for a technical issue at USPS (or possibly at eBay).

cc: brian.t@ebay and tyler@ebay

Since eBay sends the message to the seller, eBay knows exactly how many of these messages are going out each day, for which seller locations, package types (mine were all First Class), etc. and can compile the statistics and/or pinpoint the problem point that sellers cannot. Hopefully when they set this all up, they created exception reports that would flag anomalies (or should have). They should be working on behalf of their sellers with USPS to ensure that only legitimate charges are assessed since they are authorizing those charges to our accounts.

If this is a one-time thing that affected me and one other seller, fine, I need to do the work...but that probably is not likely. There are millions of sellers on eBay, and eBay has the information to determine how many of them received these charges on batches of shipments. All I'm suggesting is that eBay, first be made aware of it, and then dig into this for their sellers to ensure systems/processes are set up so that bugs that are causing illegitimate charges are caught.

Thanks!

[mr_lincoln]

---

@inceptions wrote:

Hi @wender2you11 

Yes, the information about how to challenge the charge is included in the USPS message. In my case, I'll have to waste a considerable amount of time challenge ten shipments.

Hi @mr_lincoln 

Yes, your thought is likely the root cause, but I'm wondering how widespread the problem is. Is it one sorting center? Is it the entire system or zone for a particular date? Is it related to the packages on a particular scan form? Etc... If it's impacting many sellers, I would hope that eBay would help out here as eBay has authorized these charges on our account and as sellers, we have to do all the work to challenge them or else pay them.  I'm thinking sellers should not have to go through this time-consuming challenge process on a shipment-by-shipment basis for a technical issue at USPS (or possibly at eBay).

cc: brian.t@ebay and tyler@ebay

Since eBay sends the message to the seller, eBay knows exactly how many of these messages are going out each day, for which seller locations, package types (mine were all First Class), etc. and can compile the statistics and/or pinpoint the problem point that sellers cannot. Hopefully when they set this all up, they created exception reports that would flag anomalies (or should have). They should be working on behalf of their sellers with USPS to ensure that only legitimate charges are assessed since they are authorizing those charges to our accounts.

If this is a one-time thing that affected me and one other seller, fine, I need to do the work...but that probably is not likely. There are millions of sellers on eBay, and eBay has the information to determine how many of them received these charges on batches of shipments. All I'm suggesting is that eBay, first be made aware of it, and then dig into this for their sellers to ensure systems/processes are set up so that bugs that are causing illegitimate charges are caught.

Thanks!

---

I think the suspect bulk center could be determined per your message to Brian and Tyler ... it all likely hood it is one bulk center where it is happening.  I actually went through 3 of them years ago plus some other similar type facilities with high speed sortation systems.  The odd ball one off occurrence could be when two packages are stuck together (because of a poor tape job) or one large package rides up on a smaller one.  Consecutive mistakes would point to something mechanical on the equipment.  Thus far all the corrections we have received have been positive refunds ... the one below was a coast to coast shipment ...

[inceptions]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

---

@inceptions wrote:

Hi @wender2you11 

Yes, the information about how to challenge the charge is included in the USPS message. In my case, I'll have to waste a considerable amount of time challenge ten shipments.

Hi @mr_lincoln 

Yes, your thought is likely the root cause, but I'm wondering how widespread the problem is. Is it one sorting center? Is it the entire system or zone for a particular date? Is it related to the packages on a particular scan form? Etc... If it's impacting many sellers, I would hope that eBay would help out here as eBay has authorized these charges on our account and as sellers, we have to do all the work to challenge them or else pay them.  I'm thinking sellers should not have to go through this time-consuming challenge process on a shipment-by-shipment basis for a technical issue at USPS (or possibly at eBay).

cc: brian.t@ebay and tyler@ebay

Since eBay sends the message to the seller, eBay knows exactly how many of these messages are going out each day, for which seller locations, package types (mine were all First Class), etc. and can compile the statistics and/or pinpoint the problem point that sellers cannot. Hopefully when they set this all up, they created exception reports that would flag anomalies (or should have). They should be working on behalf of their sellers with USPS to ensure that only legitimate charges are assessed since they are authorizing those charges to our accounts.

If this is a one-time thing that affected me and one other seller, fine, I need to do the work...but that probably is not likely. There are millions of sellers on eBay, and eBay has the information to determine how many of them received these charges on batches of shipments. All I'm suggesting is that eBay, first be made aware of it, and then dig into this for their sellers to ensure systems/processes are set up so that bugs that are causing illegitimate charges are caught.

Thanks!

---

I think the suspect bulk center could be determined per your message to Brian and Tyler ... it all likely hood it is one bulk center where it is happening.  I actually went through 3 of them years ago plus some other similar type facilities with high speed sortation systems.  The odd ball one off occurrence could be when two packages are stuck together (because of a poor tape job) or one large package rides up on a smaller one.  Consecutive mistakes would point to something mechanical on the equipment.  Thus far all the corrections we have received have been positive refunds ... the one below was a coast to coast shipment ...

---

Morning, @mr_lincoln 

Yes, there are a lot of ways this could happen, It could be the sorting center, it could be a problem somewhere else. But I don't what to send this thread down a rabbit hole trying to figure out how it happened as that is not what I'm trying to bring to Brian's and Tyler's attention.

This is not a case of an error on my part at all. All the weights and shipping label costs are correct. These are the ten padded envelope packages for small items I shipped First Class Mail on 1/29, which were included on 3 scan forms. USPS is claiming they were POUNDS underweight.

The good news (I hope) is that I don't see addition reports on the boards about it on the boards this morning, but I'll post back with links if I do.

Hi brian.t@ebay and tyler@ebay

What I want to bring to your attention is the problem that I am being assessed invalid charges on all orders shipped on 1/29 and eBay has authorized that those charges be placed on my account.

Assuming it's the sorting center and not a system-wide issue, I'm confident I am not the only eBay seller whose packages ship through my major metropolitan sorting center. In fact I know I'm not. And by the time the packages are scanned through the center, there would be many thousands of packages scanned with mine all mixed in. It either impacted just mine (which doesn't sound likely) or it impacted all packages scanned while the issue occurred and that would likely include packages from other eBay sellers. Thankfully I only had ten shipments that day. If it were a day with forty, can you imagine how long it would take me to dispute each of those (not to mention the amount of money tied up while doing so)?

I actually do like this program as it doesn't impact delivery to a buyer IF a seller makes an error on a label. What I hope eBay will do about this is find a way to help ensure that these invalid changes that eBay automatically authorizes to be placed on our accounts are caught through an exception flagging or other program and not just sent through unfiltered for sellers to deal with.

Again, I'm happy to help provide any additional details about the shipments that are not included in my screenshots or to answer any other questions.

Thanks!

[rfmtm]

There have been numerous recent reports of weight and dimension errors, even incorrect identification of the USPS box or envelope used. Worse is, sometimes the back charge and notice isn't sent until a month or two after the fact.

The APV system is suppose to take a picture when there is a mismatch and then supposedly a human makes the call. I doubt this always is the case, because they still often miss identifying the USPS box that was used. Some of this error a while ago was because the box manufacturer printed the wrong code on the box, but still a human would have certainly seen the difference.

You will have to hammer on USPS for resolution. Unfortunately they don't provide any photo proof they have, which would make it so much easier to resolve, and this needs to change.

[wender2you11]

Post office has issued 1 refund so far anyone else seeing adjustments reversed.

[inceptions]

wender2you11

I received a refund last night for overpaying on a shipment last week where I overstated the package weight by an ounce.

For that refund of $1.12, I received two duplicate messages from PayPal, one at 8:22pm last night and one at 4:07am this morning, and another message from eBay at 11:19pm last night (which...finally provided some detail).

Because the PayPal messages are misnamed as "Refund in you eBay dispute case" with a link to the eBay Resolution Center, I wasted a half hour trying to figure out what this "dispute" was. Obviously any dispute on these cost adjustments go to USPS, not the eBay Resolution Center.  Nor was this even a dispute...it was USPS automatically refunding my over-payment.

I have not yet received a refund for the cost adjustment errors totaling $66 that I disputed for every single package I shipped on 1/29 (described in my original post).

[3eyedfishcatcher]

How are you getting these notifications?

[inceptions]

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@3eyedfishcatcher wrote:

How are you getting these notifications?

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Through eBay messaging (and PayPal email for refunds).

[3eyedfishcatcher]

I always take the time to hand my items off at the counter. I usually discard the receipt as the labels were purchased online.  It sounds like it may be a good idea to save the receipts for 30 days or so just to have a back up of the package weight. 

It is interesting that almost 2 weeks have past and the eBay reps who were tagged have not responded. They really need a formal system for this. Like a help desk when a ticket is created a counter is started. There is no reason they could not do this for when users tag a rep. With in reason they should review the post and reply back. Plus they really need to list what reps should get tagged for specific issues or categories.

[inceptions]

---

@inceptions wrote:

---

@mr_lincoln wrote:

---

@inceptions wrote:

Hi @wender2you11 

Yes, the information about how to challenge the charge is included in the USPS message. In my case, I'll have to waste a considerable amount of time challenge ten shipments.

Hi @mr_lincoln 

Yes, your thought is likely the root cause, but I'm wondering how widespread the problem is. Is it one sorting center? Is it the entire system or zone for a particular date? Is it related to the packages on a particular scan form? Etc... If it's impacting many sellers, I would hope that eBay would help out here as eBay has authorized these charges on our account and as sellers, we have to do all the work to challenge them or else pay them.  I'm thinking sellers should not have to go through this time-consuming challenge process on a shipment-by-shipment basis for a technical issue at USPS (or possibly at eBay).

cc: brian.t@ebay and tyler@ebay

Since eBay sends the message to the seller, eBay knows exactly how many of these messages are going out each day, for which seller locations, package types (mine were all First Class), etc. and can compile the statistics and/or pinpoint the problem point that sellers cannot. Hopefully when they set this all up, they created exception reports that would flag anomalies (or should have). They should be working on behalf of their sellers with USPS to ensure that only legitimate charges are assessed since they are authorizing those charges to our accounts.

If this is a one-time thing that affected me and one other seller, fine, I need to do the work...but that probably is not likely. There are millions of sellers on eBay, and eBay has the information to determine how many of them received these charges on batches of shipments. All I'm suggesting is that eBay, first be made aware of it, and then dig into this for their sellers to ensure systems/processes are set up so that bugs that are causing illegitimate charges are caught.

Thanks!

---

I think the suspect bulk center could be determined per your message to Brian and Tyler ... it all likely hood it is one bulk center where it is happening.  I actually went through 3 of them years ago plus some other similar type facilities with high speed sortation systems.  The odd ball one off occurrence could be when two packages are stuck together (because of a poor tape job) or one large package rides up on a smaller one.  Consecutive mistakes would point to something mechanical on the equipment.  Thus far all the corrections we have received have been positive refunds ... the one below was a coast to coast shipment ...

---

Morning, @mr_lincoln 

Yes, there are a lot of ways this could happen, It could be the sorting center, it could be a problem somewhere else. But I don't what to send this thread down a rabbit hole trying to figure out how it happened as that is not what I'm trying to bring to Brian's and Tyler's attention.

This is not a case of an error on my part at all. All the weights and shipping label costs are correct. These are the ten padded envelope packages for small items I shipped First Class Mail on 1/29, which were included on 3 scan forms. USPS is claiming they were POUNDS underweight.

The good news (I hope) is that I don't see addition reports on the boards about it on the boards this morning, but I'll post back with links if I do.

Hi brian.t@ebay and tyler@ebay

What I want to bring to your attention is the problem that I am being assessed invalid charges on all orders shipped on 1/29 and eBay has authorized that those charges be placed on my account.

Assuming it's the sorting center and not a system-wide issue, I'm confident I am not the only eBay seller whose packages ship through my major metropolitan sorting center. In fact I know I'm not. And by the time the packages are scanned through the center, there would be many thousands of packages scanned with mine all mixed in. It either impacted just mine (which doesn't sound likely) or it impacted all packages scanned while the issue occurred and that would likely include packages from other eBay sellers. Thankfully I only had ten shipments that day. If it were a day with forty, can you imagine how long it would take me to dispute each of those (not to mention the amount of money tied up while doing so)?

I actually do like this program as it doesn't impact delivery to a buyer IF a seller makes an error on a label. What I hope eBay will do about this is find a way to help ensure that these invalid changes that eBay automatically authorizes to be placed on our accounts are caught through an exception flagging or other program and not just sent through unfiltered for sellers to deal with.

Again, I'm happy to help provide any additional details about the shipments that are not included in my screenshots or to answer any other questions.

Thanks!

---

Update:

Friday night, 2/28, around midnight, I received ten separate PayPal emails confirming refunds for eBay shipping but with no explanation or reference to the original invalid charges or the dispute. None of the emails referenced the reason for the refund, but these WERE the refunds for the ten invalid cost adjustments reported on this thread.

I received no emails from eBay and no notification or explanation from USPS about the refunds. ☹️ 

Lots of opportunity for process improvements here...