"Item Not Received" Procedure

[jeanvaljeancosette]

Due to the USPS shipping delays the buyer of an item I sold is now asking for a refund. I shipped the item one day after receiving payment and it's been in the USPS system ever since (shipped on December 14th). On Monday (Jan. 4th) the buyer submitted an INR refund request with eBay and I have until Jan. 7th respond. As of this evening (Jan. 6th) I still haven't responded (hoping the item would be delivered) but tomorrow is the deadline.

I have a couple of question because I've never had an INR lodged against me before:

First I was planning to wait until the last minute to respond. When does the clock expire? Would it be January 7th at 12:01 a.m. or January 7th at 11:59 p.m.

Second once I respond my plan was to use the "Provide Tracking Number" option. If I do that should I provide an explanation too? (I've already communicated with this buyer and they are aware that the item is still with USPS but they just lost their patience).

Once I've submitted the tracking number what happens next? Do I get another 4 days of reprieve? I'm hoping I can extend this out long enough until USPS makes the delivery.

Lastly if the item still hasn't arrived and I provide a refund then the item arrives AFTER they buyer has been refunded what then happens? Do I lose both the payment and the item? Can I at least recoup the item?

Any info would be helpful and gratefully received.

[tdumonde2014]

Have there been any updates to tracking since you shipped it. EBay is offering an extension if there is recent movement. You would need to call them. Should you refund the buyer and the package eventually shows up, you would have to count on the buyer's morals to repay you. If you refund the buyer you should recall the package before it is delivered, if it's expensive enough to be recalled. Can be done on USPS.com and costs about $15.00.

[rebell45]

Can't answer all your questions, but as to the time element, that would be 3 days, or 72 hours from when the case was filed., so don't wait until midnight.

As to providing the tracking number, has the tracking shown any movement in the last 10 days? If not, they will consider the package lost, and you will be asked to refund.

As to getting repaid if you refund and the item then shows up, you pretty much have to rely on the buyers honesty in that case. If you are still using PayPal you can send an invoice.

[jeanvaljeancosette]

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately the last update posted by USPS was on December 23rd with the cryptic "In Transit: Arriving Late" I did open a case with USPS and it shows it was opened and closed but no information as to the status of the package was provided to me. Really it's a sad state of affairs in my opinion.

Just one quick follow up: I've read in other threads that you can "appeal" the refund verdict after the fact if the package ends up being delivered to try to reverse the decision. Is that accurate or was that perhaps misstated?

Thanks again!

[daw365 · Accepted solution]

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@jeanvaljeancosette wrote:

On Monday (Jan. 4th) the buyer submitted an INR refund request with eBay and I have until Jan. 7th respond.

First I was planning to wait until the last minute to respond. When does the clock expire? Would it be January 7th at 12:01 a.m. or January 7th at 11:59 p.m.

Second once I respond my plan was to use the "Provide Tracking Number" option. If I do that should I provide an explanation too?

Once I've submitted the tracking number what happens next? Do I get another 4 days of reprieve?

Lastly if the item still hasn't arrived and I provide a refund then the item arrives AFTER they buyer has been refunded what then happens?

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Your buyer started their INR refund request on Monday, and your 3 business days to RESOLVE the request are Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Either you or the buyer can ask eBay to step starting one second into Friday.

You should upload the tracking number again, this time into the refund request, that eBay should already have had before the refund request was started. No explanation is needed; eBay will not read it.

When eBay steps in if tracking does not show a physical scan within the last 7 days (domestic) or 10 days (international) eBay refunds the buyer immediately.

Otherwise, eBay will put the request-turned-case on hold for 10 days, to await a Delivered scan.

- If there's a delivery, the case closes without a refund.

- If the 10 days expire without a delivery, eBay refunds the buyer immediately.

Within 30 days of the error, if the buyer is delivered after the tracking was refunded, the seller can appeal for a courtesy refund paid by eBay.

Buyers and sellers have an opportunity within 30 days from when we make a decision about a transaction issue to appeal the decision by providing appropriate documentation.

[jeanvaljeancosette]

Thank you very much for your replies. I'm not Amazon so it's going to hurt if I lose the items and have to refund. It's about $300 worth of merchandise. I can't believe eBay would not reverse the refund if the item is delivered.

[evelyb30]

This is Ebay. Believe it.  

[no_zero369]

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@jeanvaljeancosette wrote:

Thank you very much for your replies. I'm not Amazon so it's going to hurt if I lose the items and have to refund. It's about $300 worth of merchandise. I can't believe eBay would not reverse the refund if the item is delivered.

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@jeanvaljeancosette 

If the item is worth $300 and you are forced to refund BEFORE it arrives then IMMEDIATELY file a Package Intercept with the USPS.  Cost is $14.65 plus postage.  Better to pay extra to get the item back as to cut your loses.  Otherwise you will have a Maximum Loss! 

In the future, I'd suggest watching the tracking of your packages and if there is a delay, keep the buyer informed and if grossly delayed, file the Missing Mail and inform the buyer.  Many sellers kept their buyers aware of the delays this holiday season and that communication helped buyers understand and the sellers avoid INR cases.

Oh and is there any rule that states you can't file a second "Help Request" for Missing Mail" ?  Otherwise go to step 3 of the process and file that.  After all, the squeaky wheel gets the grease!

[25kenwood]

     I would (right now) try to get your buyer to agree to re-pay you or return your items, if they get refunded AND the package arrives to them. That is, of course, if you do not do a package intercept on it now.

     I had an impatient buyer get refunded $300 for their item, and then they received the item three+ weeks later. They certainly did not tell me that they had received it, but I was able to talk them into doing the right thing, and they repaid me for it.

[no_zero369]

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@25kenwood wrote:

     I would (right now) try to get your buyer to agree to re-pay you or return your items, if they get refunded AND the package arrives to them. That is, of course, if you do not do a package intercept on it now.

     I had an impatient buyer get refunded $300 for their item, and then they received the item three+ weeks later. They certainly did not tell me that they had received it, but I was able to talk them into doing the right thing, and they repaid me for it.

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yeah, that is the thing...you talked them into doing the right thing.  Once they get a refund and the  item you have little leverage to get them to pay.  Those with a conscience will pay, the rest will tell you to stick it. So you are at the mercy of the person's ethics and from what I see these days there is very little of that out there.  Many buyer's will justify it as eBay is a BIG company so scr*w them, I got a freebie.  No, best to intercept the package if you can.

[stevenw12345]

Buyer's perspective and a question

I purchased a laptop computer on December 9, 2020 with estimated delivery of December 12, 2020. Today is January 9, 2021 and I still haven't received the laptop. Obviously, I filed a claim because I know that eBay has time limits. The seller did ship immediately and I understand that the pandemic is causing shipping delays.

I looked at the seller's feedback and he has a lot of excellent feedback so I narrowed down to only his negative feedback and within those I saw these two recent feedback posts:

Shipped a heavy computer in an unpadded, oversized, cardboard box. Useless.

and then

Laptop photo is NOT one shipped out. Laptop condition poor. Terrible shipping.

I clicked on this item and it led me to the exact purchase and tracking for the laptop that I just purchased.

I asked him about this and his response was:

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well when i make a listing for a laptop and have 4 of them available of the same item it is a 1 in 4 chance you get the exact one in the picture..
i will be contacting eBay about that feedback.

He then changed all of his listings to private.

I have to protect myself and I'm stuck with my money tied up and no laptop. If it arrives late and in less than excellent condition as promised then I get stuck.

To cut to the chase, I needed the laptop, that's why I made the purchase. I don't have a lot of money and I do need to buy a different laptop.

If it arrives after eBay refunds me and I've purchased another laptop, I literally won't have the money to pay him and I don't need two laptops anyhow.

I'm not going to the Post Office during the pandemic to return the item to him because I have family members to protect from the virus AND I already told him a long time ago that the best thing for him to do would be to refund me and request a package intercept. 

I've lost out on the holiday sales and tax deductions for 2020 because I can't put the item into use in 2020 as I haven't received it.

I'm honest, but seriously he is screwing me by not just refunding and doing a package intercept. Along with that, he first told me that he had twelve laptops that were delayed and then he told me he had twenty. I feel bad for him, but who puts eight more laptops in jeopardy when he knows that there are other options for shipping? Really? Those are rhetorical questions.

Now the question: What would you do if you were in my situation?

[no_zero369]

@stevenw12345 

OK, I'll bite....but I'll tell you what I think, not what I would do.  I doubt you will like this, but I am totally astonished.

First, I think you are creating your own drama.  Most of what is above is SPECULATION! 

The fact is you bought the item, it was shipped, it got caught up in the Holiday snafu, you got nervous and filed a case - from there the rest is just supposition.  There are NO facts to support any of it!

• There is no proof that you package has no packing - maybe the seller learned from past mistakes?
• There is no proof that the returned item was shipped to you - just speculation and self generated fear.
• There is no reason to contact eBay about a seller's feedback

What you should have done is look at that Feedback, etc. BEFORE you made a purchase.  Period. 

You have no idea if the seller is scr*wing you, there are no facts to support it.  But because you failed to do proper due diligence before buying you have now got yourself all worked up and convinced this is a scam.

This is imho deplorable behavior!

The fact  that you are unwilling to accept that we are in a Pandemic and that the USPS got swamoed and is still digging up is amazing.

No seller is required to cancel a sale in the middle of shipping and file a package intercept.  Are you aware that the Package Intercept COSTS THE SELLER MONEY?  Why should  they do that?  Why because you have yourself convinced you are being scammed? 

What if the USPS screws up and doesn't intercept the package (PI doesn't always work) and it gets delivered to you after the seller has refunded you.  Then what?  You going to pay to send it back to the seller?  Oh wait!  You already stated that you don't have time to go to the USPS!  What you have proposed makes you look like a scammer. 

So instead of doing what is reasonable: waiting on the item to be delivered and THEN evaluating its condition (It might be just fine),  those actions have ruined the relationship and no doubt the seller is going to lose money!  Why is that OK?

I feel VERY sorry for this seller having to deal with a buyer like this. 

Try to take a few deep breaths. Watch the tracking on the item as it comes to you. When you get it give it a FAIR evaluation before deciding it doesn't work.  Things might just work out IF you can stop speculating and calm your emotions.

[daw365]

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@stevenw12345 wrote:

Obviously, I filed a claim because I know that eBay has time limits.

I do need to buy a different laptop.

If it arrives after eBay refunds me and I've purchased another laptop

I don't need two laptops anyhow.

Now the question: What would you do if you were in my situation?

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1. Just click Ask eBay to storm in @stevenw12345 3 business days after you started the claim,

2. get your refund, and

3. refuse his package "Return to sender" if it ever arrives.

The end.

[rdtail_89]

Good point on your observation. Buyers know ebay will cave to the buyer because you get dinged for returns. Its a common problem with ebay buyers.

[rdtail_89]

Again the 30 day policy tues everything up including payouts. Ebay needs to wake up to this problem. Personally I scan items at the postiffice and it could take 3 days to leave. Ebay's computers think uou are sitting on the the item. 

98.9% positive 

Ebay because of postiffice delay threatens to suspend you for slow mailing