What happened?

[anti-quark]

Unbelievable.

I just got off the phone with eBay for the third time. A buyer wanted to return an item on 4/23 because “it doesn’t fit.” On 4/27 their return system (mistakenly) said it had been returned, and to issue the buyer a full refund, which is a problem as I have a restocking fee.

The return hadn’t arrived by 4/28 and I couldn’t find the tracking number on eBay’s system anywhere. So I called eBay, and they confirmed that their system had a glitch and the return was in fact still on the way back to me. I also expressed concern that their system showed the buyer was owed the full amount for the return, rather than subtracting my restocking fee. The eBay rep opened a case to give the return more time to reach me.

The return arrived on 5/1, but the system was still indicating that the buyer should receive a full refund. So I called eBay again. The rep said I should do the refund (minus restocking fee) via Paypal friends & family. But every time I tried, Paypal tried to charge me a $2.99 fee for using my paypal balance or bank account. I talked to Paypal, and they said it was because it was a large amount? It was a little over $150. So I declined to make the refund at that time because I had to go to work. 

I tried to refund the buyer via eBay again that evening when I got home from work. But eBay’s system was still showing that I should give the buyer a full refund. When I clicked on the case status, it now says the reason it was being returned is because it doesn’t match the listing description?! The buyer wrote me twice to say that the item didn’t work for her. 

So I called eBay for the third time. The rep said I had to pay the paypal fee and there was no way for eBay to reimburse me for it. They also said that the buyer had changed the reason for the return, so they could have forced me to refund the full amount. The rep also said that if it happens again, they will not help me. 

After I refunded the buyer and paid the paypal fee, I clicked on the case details. EBay's system now shows the case as resolved, but chides me for not contacting the buyer before escalating the case!

How is this fair? I’m grateful that I didn’t have to refund the full amount, but it would never have been an issue if eBay’s system hadn’t mistakenly marked the return as being delivered. And how was the buyer able to change the reason for the return?

[ed8108]

Policy does not always result in fairness.

[missjen831]

Oh jeez! Please ignore the reps advice and  NEVER issue a refund via friends and family! Did you really refund via friends and family? I hope not! That is NOT the way to do it! You should have used the refund link on the original paypal transaction! The door is wide open for the buyer to get a double refund now!

[packratville]

I recently had a buyer who wanted to return an item because it didn't fit. Ebay's message said they may close the return if it wasn't returned by a certain date. That date came and went with no return or tracking to show it was on the way so I phoned eBay to see if they would close the return. The rep said yes, he would close in my favor on Monday (this was a Sunday), and within a short time that night I got a message from eBay stating the case was escalated and closed in the buyer's favor. AND the reason changed from didn't fit to didn't match item description. I still feel the rep made a mistake, but who knows. If not the rep, then there's something wrong somewhere. It just seems odd to hear from someone else that the reason was also changed from didn't fit to didn't match item description and I wonder if your buyer actually changed the reason (it doesn't make any sense that they could), or it was someone or something on eBay's end.

I was able to get things straightened out on Monday after speaking with a supervisor, but I hope you're not going to get a defect for escalating the case as I almost did in my situation for simply asking if they could close it since their designated date for the return had passed with no action on the buyer's part.

[anti-quark]

Thanks for your response.

Yes, I had to after 2 ebay reps told me that was the only way to do it. I had called Paypal, and tried to refund the buyer through the original transaction. But since the funds were on hold because of the eBay case, it wasn’t possible.

Paypal told me to get ebay to close the case first, so I could refund through the original transaction.

But eBay refused to do so as I hadn’t refunded the buyer yet. It wasn’t until I emailed a screenshot to eBay showing I had refunded the buyer through Friends & Family (as per eBay’s request) that they closed the case.

I have been selling since 2014 and this Friends & Family refund is new to me. It seems like fraud, as the buyer is neither a friend nor family.

[anti-quark]

Thanks for your response. 

Your experience is very troubling. The eBay rep said that she had reported the buyer for changing the reason for the return, but I just don’t see how it was possible in the first place. Moreover, the buyer was very polite and (was) a repeat customer. I hope the buyer doesn’t get into trouble if this is indeed eBay’s glitch.

I will keep an eye on my defect rate. 

[packratville · Accepted solution]

Yes, as is yours. If your buyer was able to change the reason, she would have had to call customer support to do it. And if she did and customer support was able to change it, then why would customer support turn around and report the buyer for changing it? It doesn't make sense. From what I've found in searching, there's no other way a return request reason could be changed except possibly through customer support.

It says a lot about you that you're concerned for your buyer. I hope she doesn't get in any kind of trouble either, and I hope this situation works out well for you and her.

[chrysylys]

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@anti-quark wrote:
Moreover, the buyer was very polite and (was) a repeat customer.

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So, why would you impose a Restocking Fee?  That alone may have ended the 'repeat customer' bit.  Of course, you won't be able to have those fees in a few weeks.

[Anonymous]

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@anti-quark wrote:

Unbelievable.

I just got off the phone with eBay for the third time. A buyer wanted to return an item on 4/23 because “it doesn’t fit.” On 4/27 their return system (mistakenly) said it had been returned, and to issue the buyer a full refund, which is a problem as I have a restocking fee.

The return hadn’t arrived by 4/28 and I couldn’t find the tracking number on eBay’s system anywhere. So I called eBay, and they confirmed that their system had a glitch and the return was in fact still on the way back to me. I also expressed concern that their system showed the buyer was owed the full amount for the return, rather than subtracting my restocking fee. The eBay rep opened a case to give the return more time to reach me.

The return arrived on 5/1, but the system was still indicating that the buyer should receive a full refund. So I called eBay again. The rep said I should do the refund (minus restocking fee) via Paypal friends & family. But every time I tried, Paypal tried to charge me a $2.99 fee for using my paypal balance or bank account. I talked to Paypal, and they said it was because it was a large amount? It was a little over $150. So I declined to make the refund at that time because I had to go to work. 

I tried to refund the buyer via eBay again that evening when I got home from work. But eBay’s system was still showing that I should give the buyer a full refund. When I clicked on the case status, it now says the reason it was being returned is because it doesn’t match the listing description?! The buyer wrote me twice to say that the item didn’t work for her. 

So I called eBay for the third time. The rep said I had to pay the paypal fee and there was no way for eBay to reimburse me for it. They also said that the buyer had changed the reason for the return, so they could have forced me to refund the full amount. The rep also said that if it happens again, they will not help me. 

After I refunded the buyer and paid the paypal fee, I clicked on the case details. EBay's system now shows the case as resolved, but chides me for not contacting the buyer before escalating the case!

How is this fair? I’m grateful that I didn’t have to refund the full amount, but it would never have been an issue if eBay’s system hadn’t mistakenly marked the return as being delivered. And how was the buyer able to change the reason for the return?

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Hi @anti-quark, I apologize that you ran into some trouble with your return. While I'm not certain why you were unable to refund directly through the request itself, I can confirm that no defect is recorded for this transaction. Additionally, if for some reason this arises again in the future keep in mind that sending money to friends and family is free if it is from a bank account or PayPal balance. 

[readabouthorses]

@Anonymous

Why would the Ebay CS people even mention using friends and family? I'm thinking someone at Ebay needs to get to the bottom of this because refunding money from a sale like this using friends and family is probably against PayPal policy. I actually know someone who tried to use PayPal Friends and Family to sell stuff and they canceled her PayPal account for doing it.

[anti-quark]

Yes, I too was skeptical because it really sounded like fraud but spoke to the Paypal rep who said it was ok. It may be a new thing, although the 2nd eBay rep I spoke to said it has been this way since she started a couple of years ago.

As an aside about the Paypal fee for anyone reading this, my buyer in Florida shipped the item back from another country (Canada), so it seems that’s why there was a fee.

I tried sending several other buyers and actual family the same amount, and when I got to the same page to confirm the transaction, there was no fee. I kept seeing a conversion rate when I went through that same process with my actual buyer.

[anlo_6640]

@anti-quark

Never refund via friends and family.

If you do, the buyer can escalate the case and get a refund that way as well as getting your money via friends and family. It allows them to double dip.

[missjen831]

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@anti-quark wrote:

Thanks for your response. 

Your experience is very troubling. The eBay rep said that she had reported the buyer for changing the reason for the return, but I just don’t see how it was possible in the first place. Moreover, the buyer was very polite and (was) a repeat customer. I hope the buyer doesn’t get into trouble if this is indeed eBay’s glitch.

I will keep an eye on my defect rate. 

---

The rep, they did not report the buyer. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the buyer to change the return reason. The rep who handled this changed the reason automatically when they STEPPED IN. Ebay STEPPED IN rather than closing out the request. When they step in and find in the buyers favor, the remorse return automatically becomes an SNAD.

@Anonymousthe issue with a refund done through friends and family is that is not only against paypal policy BUT it is NOT safe for the seller. they can get a refund through ebay and paypal since the original transaction was NOT refunded! Customer service needs to STOP giving this advice!

[rixstuff]

What was the reason for the return? Your items are a bit pricey and you charge a restocking fee.  I cant think of many areas where you are materially harmed to the point the restocking fee is warranted.  You sell it, they get it, they dont like it, they return it.  What have you lost? - you get all your fees back.  You may kill the return at a whim thing by making the buyer pay the shipping.

[Anonymous]

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@anlo_6640 wrote:

@anti-quark

Never refund via friends and family.

If you do, the buyer can escalate the case and get a refund that way as well as getting your money via friends and family. It allows them to double dip.

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Hi @anlo_6640, if we recommend the use of the Friends & Family feature, we would also take the PayPal Transaction ID to confirm the refund and close the claim. The buyer would not be able to escalate the case at this point. 

@readabouthorses, though I am not able to speak to PayPal policy with authority, I was unable to locate any references on their site, help center or user agreement that would indicate the recommendation we provided is against their guidelines. The Friends & Family feature does not assess a fee of the recipient, which is why we recommend this (as the buyer should not be penalized in any way). 

Typically, a partial refund can be made through the transaction itself on PayPal, but this option can be blocked depending on the state of the claim on eBay. This is why we would recommend an alternative. This is a recommendation we make only in rare circumstances for one off situations, but is an option if no alternatives exist.

@missjen831, as I mentioned earlier in this post, the buyer would not be eligible for a refund through the Money Back Guarantee process as we would be able to see the refund through PayPal once we received the transaction ID. Additionally, PayPal would have access to this same information if a PayPal Purchase Protection claim is opened for the same transaction. This is an option we can provide to a seller and offer protections if this option is pursued. It is typically not required, as the seller can always escalate the claim for eBay to refund on their behalf as well, but if this is not possible for some reason the seller can resolve the issue through a separate payment via PayPal and will have a record of refunding the buyer in this manner to use if any issues arise later on.