eBay

e-cheddar · ‎06-13-2019

I've noticed ebay doesn't have an irregular package option when purchasing shipping.

There is usually a surcharge for irregular packages and I use cylindrical mailing tubes for many of my products. I am finding that when I ship through ebay, the lack of an IRREGULAR PACKAGE option seems to result in my mailings in tubes disappearing in the postal system for weeks, I assume because they handle these types of packages differently so they don't get lost somewhere in the pipeline.

Is there something I am missing here or is there really no way to select IRREGULAR package in ebay's shipping purchase interface? Is it in the way I set up the listing to begin with?

points13 · ‎06-13-2019

There is a check box for irregular package when I create my listings. Maybe you are already using it. I don't use so I can not really say if it gets you other label options or not.

berserkerplanet · ‎06-15-2019

The new label flow does not have an irregular package option.

The classic label flow does have it, but it is non-functional (the surcharge does not get added).

The only USPS service where it is an issue is First Class Package Service:
"Parcels are subject to a $0.20 surcharge if they are irregularly shaped, such as rolls, tubes, and triangles."

It is doubtful that not adding the surcharge has anything to do with pkgs disappearing in the system for weeks - the pkgs would be routed around automated systems visually by humans on entry to the system and while in the system I would think. The irregular pkg designation is essentially a non-machinable designation - tubes and rolls may roll off conveyor systems and labels are tougher for automated scanners to read between being wrapped around the roll, not staying still (tube rolling around), and possibly being at a wonky angle. Triangular tubes have similar scanning issues.

I assume automated scanning systems may be based on x-y-z coordinate orientation where there may be scanners or cameras under, over, and on the sides, but they may not be able to read a barcode on a label at a 45° angle as could occur with a tube that rolls into that position (the curvature of the label on the tube makes it worse, and even worse if label wrapped wrong way around tube with barcode wrapping around).

So in theory, irregular pkgs are just that - non-machinable, and have to be handled by humans. I don't think there is any actual visual designation on the labels for irregular FCP, and USPS just wants the 20¢ surcharge to cover the extra human handling (it certainly isn't in any of the barcodes - there is no provision for that in the barcode specs)

Whether irregular/non-machinable packages get scanned by the USPS APV system is unknown. If so, USPS could collect their 20¢ surcharge that way.

In short, I know of no way to "do it right", and specify and pay the surcharge using eBay labels (or PayPal labels for that matter either - the irregular pkg checkbox is as non-functional there as here in the classic label flow)

Let's ask: brian@ebay Are there any plans for the new label flow to provide ability to specify and pay the correct postage for irregular First Class Package Service parcels that are tubular or triangular? If not, what does eBay suggest?

e-cheddar · ‎06-15-2019

i guess I can print the labels through Paypal, as I think the irregular package option appears there....i really do think it can cause problems with getting these through the mailstream in a timely manner and one poster in another thread mentioned the same issue AND some of their customers were getting POSTAGE DUE notices with this type of package.

thanks!

berserkerplanet · ‎06-15-2019

The PayPal checkbox did nothing when I tried it - the postage remained the same with it checked or not checked.

I don't see how it can be causing an issue with them getting through the mailstream in a timely manner - as far as I can determine there is no marking on the labels to indicate irregular/non-machinable, and I know there is nothing in the encoded barcodes (other than that the postage paid is in the 2D data matrix barcode up top, and that would only come into play if the APV automated system was scanning them - in which case you would be backcharged the 20¢ automatically through PayPal)

They may be working through the system slowly because they aren't being handled by the automated equipment. That will happen no matter what the label says.

Postage due I can maybe see. If handled manually and not by the automated sorting systems, the APV system may not be flagging them for underpaid postage, and carriers and clerks on the receiving end are doing the old postage due - which I'm pretty sure they are not supposed top any longer since APV kicked in.

Sticking a 20¢ stamp on them to cover the surcharge might alleviate possibility of postage due. (used to be that we could stick stamps alongside online klabels for things like this and when we printed a label for the wrong weight, but I think they stopped letting that fly a few years ago. This is abit different though as it's a surcharge, and a human would be dealing with it most likely.

laughingravy21 · ‎06-17-2019

I quit using shipping tubes 2 years ago because they added an average of an extra 8 days to delivery times. I provided the local postmaster with 100+ tracking history printouts to prove it, but they were never able to provide an explanation.

e-cheddar · ‎06-17-2019

usually the tubes get through just fine when i ship through my webstore, where I can select IRREGULAR PACKAGE through PayPal shipping.

The few that I've had get hung up in transit were those shipped through ebay, although it may just be a coincidence....

I don't know what info is included in the various codes on the labels, but I had assumed there was some info in there indicating my packages were IRREGULAR (when the option was there to select) and were thus processed separately due to the post office thinking their could be problems with irregular packages in their automated systems (i.e., a mailing tube getting hung up and rolling indefinitely on some conveyer somewhere along the line). I wasn't even aware of an extra charge for such packages until I recently got a surcharge added to an etsy order I was shipping.

buyselljack2016 · ‎06-17-2019

My triangle 1st Class packages don't seem to get delayed, but they more often than not, fail to get a scan at the "regional facility" on the way out.

berserkerplanet · ‎06-17-2019

>>usually the tubes get through just fine when i ship through my webstore, where I can select IRREGULAR PACKAGE
>>through PayPal shipping.

That selection at PayPal does nothing.

[I was going to post the following yesterday as general input, but will post it here no anyway even though it just surfaces more questions]
----------------
I printed a PayPal First Class Package label for a 7oz pkg to zone 8 today, and went ahead and ticked the "irregular" checkbox.

Postage was the same $3.63 as expected with no surcharge added, and absolutely no indication that it was "irregular".

There are no markings different than usual visible on the label, there IS nothing in the visible tracking number to indicate anything (the service type code was 001 as always and there isn't any service type code for irregular first class anyway), there is nothing embedded in the tracking barcode (I decoded it and analyzed it), there is nothing in the visible indicia in the top section, there is nothing in the 2D datamatrix barcode (decoded and analyzed, postage is $3.63), and it says "NO SURCHARGE" in the visible portion of the top section.

The PayPal label flow "irregular" checkbox is as useless as the eBay classic flow checkbox - neither do anything.

i *think* the way it is supposed to work is that the "No Surcharge" designation on the label is supposed to change to something else ("SURCHARGE $0.20" maybe that is a visual indicator that a surcharge was paid to be read by USPS workers handling the pkg. No idea if anything in the 2D Datamatrix barcode changes (there is no documentation regarding that I've found).
-------------------

There IS a problem with irregular packages in the automated sorting systems - they roll around, maybe get hung up, and can't be scanned reliably I assume - and why they are handled manually outside of the automated flows (and probably why they get delayed).

It's possible that either OCR of the theorized "SURCHARGE $0.20" or something in the DataMatrix barcode could cause any that get into the automated streams to be kicked off to the side to be dealt with by a human, but so far I have found nothing on for instance that PayPal label I printed that fits that bill (there IS NOTHING there even in the barcode)

I have yet to see a label with a surcharge showing on it (maybe Stamps.com, or Endicia labels have that capability and actually charge the surcharge and indicate on the label?), and there is no documentation I can find that sheds any more light on what actually happens when a label is created with an "irregular" condition and what happens to pkgs with and without the
designation on the label.

If you want to PM me and send me one or more of the non-eBay etsy or website labels that you say work better I'll tear it apart and see if there is anything in the barcode(s)

(if I can - again there is no hard documentation on the actual, current 2D barcode format, and a lot of my analysis is trial and error and comparison to other eBay, PayPal, Amazon, and USPS,com label barcodes to see patterns and divine some of the data in the undocumented fields. For example, yesterday I determined that Pitney Bowes is encoding the origin zipcode and declared weight in one of the reserved fields for eBay and PayPal generated labels.)

ms.rodriguez* · ‎06-17-2019

Have you tried putting the tubes inside a cheap plastic mailing bag(envelopes? They come in many sizes.

brian@ebay · ‎06-18-2019

@berserkerplanet wrote:

The new label flow does not have an irregular package option.

The classic label flow does have it, but it is non-functional (the surcharge does not get added).

The only USPS service where it is an issue is First Class Package Service:
"Parcels are subject to a $0.20 surcharge if they are irregularly shaped, such as rolls, tubes, and triangles."

It is doubtful that not adding the surcharge has anything to do with pkgs disappearing in the system for weeks - the pkgs would be routed around automated systems visually by humans on entry to the system and while in the system I would think. The irregular pkg designation is essentially a non-machinable designation - tubes and rolls may roll off conveyor systems and labels are tougher for automated scanners to read between being wrapped around the roll, not staying still (tube rolling around), and possibly being at a wonky angle. Triangular tubes have similar scanning issues.

I assume automated scanning systems may be based on x-y-z coordinate orientation where there may be scanners or cameras under, over, and on the sides, but they may not be able to read a barcode on a label at a 45° angle as could occur with a tube that rolls into that position (the curvature of the label on the tube makes it worse, and even worse if label wrapped wrong way around tube with barcode wrapping around).

So in theory, irregular pkgs are just that - non-machinable, and have to be handled by humans. I don't think there is any actual visual designation on the labels for irregular FCP, and USPS just wants the 20¢ surcharge to cover the extra human handling (it certainly isn't in any of the barcodes - there is no provision for that in the barcode specs)

Whether irregular/non-machinable packages get scanned by the USPS APV system is unknown. If so, USPS could collect their 20¢ surcharge that way.

In short, I know of no way to "do it right", and specify and pay the surcharge using eBay labels (or PayPal labels for that matter either - the irregular pkg checkbox is as non-functional there as here in the classic label flow)

Let's ask: brian@ebay Are there any plans for the new label flow to provide ability to specify and pay the correct postage for irregular First Class Package Service parcels that are tubular or triangular? If not, what does eBay suggest?

Hi @berserkerplanet, I'm not sure if this is on their road map, but I'll be sure to pass this feedback over to the shipping team. Thanks!

Brian,
Community Team

berserkerplanet · ‎06-18-2019

brian@ebay

Thanks for the response and passing it on.

Could you have Nate chime in with some clarification/interpretation on this issue?

USPS DOES require a 20¢ surcharge for FCP tubes and triangles, and it looks like no postage providers (I am familiar with) actually provide the capability to specify the irregular condition and pay the surcharge.

It appears USPS mostly ignores the underpayment, but the question arises: how is USPS supposed to handle that (APV?)
(if APV, then no worries, and the sellers can just pay the surcharge on the backend)

Also how do "irregular" or non-machinable packages travel through USPS systems - are they visually sorted by size and kept outside the automated flows, or are they sorted by label endorsements that reroute them off the automated lines? This ties into the claims and questions about "irregular" pkgs getting lost in the USPS processing flows and taking much longer for delivery.

e-cheddar · ‎07-20-2019

update: i found a non-cylindrical elongated box that I have replaced the maililng tubes with and the first few have gone through USPS to the recipient in a few days.

The last tube I mailed domestically took 2 1/2 weeks to get to Maryland from Illinois.

No plastic endcaps required now either, so that's also a bonus.