eBay

sin-n-dex · ‎10-26-2022

Sold a coin a few weeks ago, going to an APO address.

Printed postage on eBay, it looks domestic. According to eBay, APO is domestic. I applied exactly what printed to the package, and today I get it back saying that I need a customs form.

Well if I need a customs form, why isn't that part of the postage I printed? I went directly to the item to "print postage", there was no changing details on the sale that could cause any sort of problem. Seems to me if APO requires a customs form, eBay would link to the appropriate shipping label for this package.

I had to refund, problem with buyer's address and explain to the buyer why he's not getting his coin.

To add insult to injury, Chit Chats (my mail service) processes the return and charges $7 for accepting the package in Niagara and transporting it to the Chit Chats office in my city. (It's not generally unreasonable to do that, but for one, the item cost the buyer $6.95, and for two, the fact it's coming back to me is not directly my fault).

C.

stephenmorgan · ‎10-26-2022

@sin-n-dex wrote:
Sold a coin a few weeks ago, going to an APO address.

Printed postage on eBay, it looks domestic. According to eBay, APO is domestic. I applied exactly what printed to the package, and today I get it back saying that I need a customs form.

Well if I need a customs form, why isn't that part of the postage I printed? I went directly to the item to "print postage", there was no changing details on the sale that could cause any sort of problem. Seems to me if APO requires a customs form, eBay would link to the appropriate shipping label for this package.

I had to refund, problem with buyer's address and explain to the buyer why he's not getting his coin.

To add insult to injury, Chit Chats (my mail service) processes the return and charges $7 for accepting the package in Niagara and transporting it to the Chit Chats office in my city. (It's not generally unreasonable to do that, but for one, the item cost the buyer $6.95, and for two, the fact it's coming back to me is not directly my fault).

C.

The USPS has certain restrictions placed on International Military Mail to meet the laws of the international destination. Mail going to these destinations APO's, FPO's, DPO's and MPO's is International Mail. The mail is essentially going to a Freight Forwarder who will deliver it to the appropriate destinations. A First Class Letter is mostly ok but anything that is considered a package or parcel will require Custom Forms either going to or coming from these destinations to the US.

https://www.usps.com/ship/apo-fpo-dpo.htm#:~:text=Starting%20on%20March%2013%2C%202020%2C%20anyone%2....

Military Guidelines & Country Regulations

Click-N-Ship will alert you to some of the prohibitions and restrictions based on the 5-digit Military Post Office ZIP Code™ you're shipping to, but you are responsible for ensuring your package complies with the laws and regulations of the U.S. and the destination country. You often need a customs form to ship overseas. Click-N-Ship will also let you know which customs forms you need.

Starting on March 13, 2020, anyone sending a package to an international address, that has an APO, FPO, or MPO Zip Code™ in the return address, will need to create a customs form online, or fill out PS Form 2976-R before visiting a retail counter for the clerk to create the label.

Starting August 13, 2020 anyone sending a package with an APO, FPO, or MPO Zip Code™ in the return address will need to create a customs form online, or fill out PS Form 2976-R before visiting a retail counter for the clerk to create the label.

Helpful Links

Find additional information using the resources for military mail and country regulations.

Check out International Shipping Prohibitions and Restrictions.
Look up a ZIP Code™ in the APO/FPO/DPO Restrictions Tool.
APO/FPO inquiries: MilitaryMailOperations@usps.gov.
DPO inquiries: DPO-Answerperson_MB@state.gov.

https://postcalc.usps.com/MilitaryRestrictions?_gl=1*1f71msw*_gcl_dc*R0NMLjE2NjUyNDkzMDIuYjIyMzY4ZDV....

APO/FPO/DPO Restrictions

Military – This is a Military/Embassy specific ZIP Code for an APO/FPO/DPO (Air/Army Post Office, Fleet Post Office or Diplomatic Post Office).

Mail addressed to military and diplomatic post offices overseas is subject to certain conditions or restrictions of mailing regarding content, preparation, and handling.

For a complete list of restrictions to all APO/FPO/DPO destinations, see the most recent Postal Bulletin pull-out section.

Enter ZIP Code:

https://www.usps.com/international/shipping-restrictions.htm

Mailer Guidelines

If you're not allowed to ship an item in the U.S., you're not allowed to ship it to any other country. (And even if it is allowed domestically, it may not be allowed in another country.)

APO/FPO/DPO shipments to foreign countries are treated like domestic mail, but they are still subject to those foreign countries’ laws.

All USPS customers are responsible for:

Complying with Postal Service™ regulations and U.S. related laws and regulations.

Review the USPS Publication 52, Hazardous, Restricted, & Perishable Mail and the International Mail Manual to find out if your item is mailable.

Complying with the laws of your destination country.

Review the Individual Country Listings and Requirements by Country & Locality pages to discover if the destination country permits your item.
Be aware that size and weight standards may differ from USPS standards.

Packing your package securely and marking it as required. You can take your package to a Post Office™ location to make sure it is labeled correctly.

If you are mailing packages that contain hazardous materials (HAZMAT), you must separate HAZMAT packages from all other packages and present them in a container marked "HAZMAT."

https://postcalc.usps.com/Calculator/MilitaryRestrictions?country=0&ccode=US&oz=88310&omil=False&dz=...

Military – This is a Military/Embassy specific ZIP Code for an APO/FPO/DPO (Air/Army Post Office, Fleet Post Office or Diplomatic Post Office).

Mail addressed to military and diplomatic post offices overseas is subject to certain conditions or restrictions of mailing regarding content, preparation, and handling.

For a complete list of restrictions to all APO/FPO/DPO destinations, see the most recent Postal Bulletin pull-out section.

Restrictions for ZIP Code 09123 (this is only an example of restrictions to Zip Code 09123 other Zip Codes may have different restrictions)

B. Other than for PMEMS and the exceptions listed below, a customs declaration PS Form 2976 or PS Form 2976-A is required for all items weighing 16 ounces or more, and for all items (regardless of weight) containing potentially dutiable mail contents (e.g., merchandise or goods) addressed to or from this ZIP Code. Other than the exceptions listed below, all PMEMS mailpieces (regardless of mail contents or weight) addressed to or from this ZIP Code must bear a properly completed PS Form 2976-B. The surface area of the address side of the mailpiece must be large enough to contain the applicable customs declaration. The following exceptions apply to known mailers, who for this purpose are defined as follows:
- Business mailers who enter volume mailings through business mail entry units or other bulk mail acceptance locations, pay postage through advance deposit accounts, use permit imprints for postage payment, and submit completed postage statements at the time of entry that certify that the mailpieces contain no dangerous materials that are prohibited by postal regulations. Such business mailers are exempt from providing customs documentation on non-dutiable letters and printed matter.
- All federal, state, and local government agencies whose mailings are regarded as "Official Mail." Such agencies are exempt from providing customs documentation, except for any items addressed to an MPO or DPO to which restriction "B2" applies.
C. Cigarettes and other tobacco products, including tobacco leaves, chewing and pipe tobacco, snuff, and cigars are prohibited, including those that are authorized in Publication 52 under PACT.
C2. E-cigarettes and related products (e.g., nicotine liquids, e-liquids, parts, or supplies) are prohibited.
D. Coffee is prohibited.
E. Medicines (prescription, over-the-counter, vitamins, and supplements) are prohibited when mailed to individuals for human or animal use. This prohibition does not apply when medicines are sent as Official Mail only between specifically designated agencies such as pharmaceutical distributors, hospitals, clinics, and pharmacies.
F3. Replica weapons and inert explosive devices (such as grenades) and weapons parts are prohibited.
H. Meats, including preserved meats, bones, skin, hair, feathers, horns or hoofs of hoofed animals, and wool samples whether hermetically sealed or not, are prohibited.
M. Fruits, vegetables, live animals, and live plants are prohibited.
R. All alcoholic beverages, including those mailable under Publication 52, Part 421, are prohibited.
S. Synthetic cannabinoids used to stimulate the central nervous system commonly known as "synthetic marijuana," "K2," or "Spice" are prohibited.
U. Mail addressed to Retirees (Box R) is limited to 16 ounces and up to a 90-day supply of TRICARE medications. This restriction does not apply to mail endorsed "Free Matter for the Blind or Handicapped."
Z1. The following restriction is applicable only to International Service Centers (ISC)/Exchange Offices. An Anti-Pilferage Seal (Item No O817E or O818A) is required on all pouches and sacks.

The Military even has its own classification for certain mail to and from International Destinations called SAM

Space Available Mail

Week of September 21, 2015

Military.com

Space Available Mail (SAM) refers to parcels mailed to APO/FPO addresses at parcel post rates first transported domestically by surface, then to overseas destinations by air on a space available basis. The maximum weight and size limits are 15 pounds and 60 inches in length and girth combined. From overseas locations, items mailed at Standard Post rates are sent to CONUS by air on a space available basis. The maximum weight and size limits are 70 pounds and 130 inches in length and girth combined. All classes of mail addressed to FPO addresses must contain the New Navy Standardized Address format, which includes ship or mobile unit number, (or PSC number for ashore FPOs), virtual mail box number, and five-digit ZIP code to ensure delivery. For more information, contact your local civilian or military post office.

For more on shipping items, see this Military.com page

eBay does allow a Seller to discriminate against these destinations if they do not wish to ship to them.

sin-n-dex · ‎10-26-2022

@12345jamesstamps wrote:
Sending a coin through the mail whether USA or Canada is a parcel and that requires a customs form. I am sure the envelope is somewhat not bendable. I mean, we can't bend the coin in that envelope.
Sometimes actually going to a post office one might learn a few things not known. I have mailed to Canada and have had stuff come from Canada to me. Tracking from Canada to USA can be expensive. So I guess there are ways getting around that. Got to be careful when item tries to go through...it's like gambling. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
I mailed something in a small bubble envelope to Canada and it had to go parcel with a customs form. It was just a tiny insert for a ring that weighed nothing. But because it was a small bubble envelope and I was too lazy to go home and repackage it in a $1.40 envelope I paid big time for that mailing. Lesson learned going to my post office.

I'm not sure who you're replying to or what you're going on about here...

I used a bubble mailer, shipped FCI to an APO address and mailed it from Niagara Falls New York in USA.

While ESE works for coins, I would never do that. In Canada shipping it that way would cause it to get caught in the machinery which is not forgiving. Back in the day when I did trades with people online (and not sales), I tried shipping this way to be cheap, and my packages never arrived. In those cases, I trusted the buyers, and it was interesting how it was every single one that was shipped that way that didn't arrive. I ship all coins in bubble mailers now.

C.

richmondhillcubs · ‎10-26-2022

"I shipped it with USPS mailed from Niagara Falls. I buy my shipping on eBay.com, all USA shipping including APO is domestic for me."

I'm confused, you buy your label on ebay and then give that package with that label to Chit Chats?

sin-n-dex · ‎10-26-2022

@stephenmorgan

That's great information. But I'm still perplexed on why eBay's software didn't require these directives to be followed.

I blocked APO so I won't have this issue again. I may unblock later if I learn there's no issues, but this was kind of an expensive lesson for me and disappointed my buyer, so preventing the issue seems like the best course of action.

C.

sin-n-dex · ‎10-26-2022

@richmondhillcubs wrote:
"I shipped it with USPS mailed from Niagara Falls. I buy my shipping on eBay.com, all USA shipping including APO is domestic for me."
I'm confused, you buy your label on ebay and then give that package with that label to Chit Chats?

Chit Chats is a freight forwarder in Canada, you can go on whatever platform and buy US postage there. Or you can buy it directly from Chit Chats (which I find costs more). Chit Chats puts all these packages on a truck and takes them to Niagara Falls to be dropped off. That's because private persons can't courier packages over the border (not without paying lots of fees to cross and getting scrutiny. I live 100 miles from the border and don't have time to do that every day, or even once a week). Chit Chats is 2 miles from where I work.

C.

stephenmorgan · ‎10-26-2022

@sin-n-dex wrote:
@stephenmorgan
That's great information. But I'm still perplexed on why eBay's software didn't require these directives to be followed.

I blocked APO so I won't have this issue again. I may unblock later if I learn there's no issues, but this was kind of an expensive lesson for me and disappointed my buyer, so preventing the issue seems like the best course of action.

C.

Yea, I am not sure why either. This is not something new. The two changes made in March and August of 2020 is just a update to reflect that you can do the forms on-line. The system has been in place since at least 1978 that I know of, but I am sure much earlier then this.

When I was in Germany there was an occasion that a German National I knew asked if I could send a package to a relative who was living in the US. The advantage is that it would cost a fraction of the cost using the USPS Military System instead of the German Bundespost. In addition package would arrive to the US within 7 days or less where as the Bundespost would take a month or so.

Of course this was highly illegal for me to do as I would be breaking International Law, German Law, US Military Law as well as USPS Law. I did not do it but I did treat him to some American Ice Cream.

richmondhillcubs · ‎10-26-2022

Thank you, I think I understand your situation now. You bought your label on ebay.com (which considers your APO address as domestic as it should be) and shipped via Chitchats that is a Canadian company which would require CN22, I guess that is what happened?

slippinjimmy · ‎10-26-2022

@joseh1445 wrote:
Maybe its because you live in Canada? APO is domestic for USA.

It is and it does require a customs form.

https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/703.htm#ep1113810

joseh1445 · ‎10-27-2022

@sin-n-dex

Its strange. I have ship between 5-10 items to APO and other Military addresses, and had never fill out or got ask to fill out a customs form. Any way, good luck.

sin-n-dex · ‎10-27-2022

@richmondhillcubs wrote:
Thank you, I think I understand your situation now. You bought your label on ebay.com (which considers your APO address as domestic as it should be) and shipped via Chitchats that is a Canadian company which would require CN22, I guess that is what happened?

What you're going on about has nothing to do with my situation. I mailed a domestic package from Niagara Falls NY to an APO address. That's all you need to know.

Where I live, what service I pay to drive packages to the USPS office in Niagara NY, and where I buy my postage, has nothing to do with this problem (except for the fact that eBay sold me postage that was not correct for an APO address, as per the sticker USPS put on it when they sent it back to me.

C.

sin-n-dex · ‎10-27-2022

@joseh1445 wrote:
@sin-n-dex
Its strange. I have ship between 5-10 items to APO and other Military addresses, and had never fill out or got ask to fill out a customs form. Any way, good luck.

If memory serves, the last APO I shipped (a few years ago), it looked like the international FCI shipping label on eBay, and identified what was in the package the same way. I just assumed eBay would print the right type of label and as per USPS, they didn't.

I did however hear back from the customer. He claims to not be aware of a customs form needing to be used to send mail to him, but he did thank me for the refund, and did tell me his APO address has been a problem for other sellers, although he doesn't seem to know the reason for this. I'm thinking it's the same problem, but not all sellers tell their buyers what's going on, some might just cancel with problem with address and leave it at that.

C.

rainyaz · ‎10-28-2022

This exact thing happened to me today (10/28/2021). And of course I agree that Ebay should provide the customs forms as we buy the shipping label. Shall have to call Ebay.

stephenmorgan · ‎10-28-2022

@rainyaz wrote:
This exact thing happened to me today (10/28/2021). And of course I agree that Ebay should provide the customs forms as we buy the shipping label. Shall have to call Ebay.

You should not need to call eBay.

As long as eBay lets you print out the Customs form you should be ok. Many times when you print out a shipping label the Customs Form is part of the shipping label. Do not forget to sign the form. If it does not print out you should still be able to get one at the Post Office and attach it.

boardroom_tech · ‎11-11-2022

Normally the customs forms are auto-generated on Ebay.com. In the past 2 weeks they have not been and I had a package returned. Something changed with the Ebay software recently

sin-n-dex · ‎11-11-2022

@stephenmorgan wrote:
@rainyaz wrote:
This exact thing happened to me today (10/28/2021). And of course I agree that Ebay should provide the customs forms as we buy the shipping label. Shall have to call Ebay.

You should not need to call eBay.

As long as eBay lets you print out the Customs form you should be ok. Many times when you print out a shipping label the Customs Form is part of the shipping label. Do not forget to sign the form. If it does not print out you should still be able to get one at the Post Office and attach it.

That's where I am disadvantaged... the post office is 100 miles away.

I just decided to block APO for now, until this is sorted out. At least my customer was understanding. I refunded him 100% on his purchase. I returned the coin to the B&M store.

C.