eBay

admiralmotti89 · ‎04-23-2019

I recently returned a package to a seller as it really wasn't what I was expecting based on the description, for one. I used his free 30 day returns policy. Before the package has even arrived at his home, he has accused me numerous times of taking some of the items out and stealing them from him before sending it back.

In addition, he has cursed at me numerous times, suggested he hopes that I will get scammed like I allegedly am doing to him, and at the same time has said he will go around looking for people to take advantage of, which to me seems like a thinly veiled threat that he is going to try to sabotage my store. I should have known I was in for it when I paid $50 for priority mail and he instead chose to ship fedex ground (which he had as an option for about $25) less, and then got super aggravated when I suggest he either ship priority or refund me what I paid for priority over fedex. Apparently, there's a special place in hell for me because I returned an item that didn't live up to the description he oversold it with.

I've already talked to eBay and they said based on his communication and pre-emptive accusations, and that I have an account in good standing, this will work out well for me no matter what he does. But now the seller's message (at least the dozenth today) included this, and I am concerned:

"I hope to GOD that you purchased INSURANCE like I did when I sent it to you. If it gets damaged I will refuse the package and it will be sent back to you. If it gets damaged and you purchased insurance, you will have to file a claim. It would really suck if it gets damaged and you did not insure the package. Surely, anyone with a half a brain would have purchased insurance for a $600 package. But, there are people out there who don't think. BTW..the return label you printed does NOT include insurance.... you need to purchase that separately. If it comes back damaged, my appeal will also state that b/c it would not be in the same condition as I sent it."

This seller has already declared that he will file an appeal for stealing from him, even though he doesn't have the package yet. So I wouldn't put it past him to lie and declare the package is damaged even if it isn't. What will that mean for me? Can he really have it sent back? And should I have bought insurance?

muttlymob · ‎04-24-2019

@admiralmotti89 wrote:
I did get a separate ID for posting as was recommended to me years ago (fortunately have not had to use it much until now), so this is not my buying/selling ID. I should probably split the buying/selling ID though too based on what I've read here in this thread.

Since you already have this alternate ID, use it for buying. Starting now.

It only takes one nutcase to ruin a selling account - and you may already have met yours.

jeannicho22 · ‎04-24-2019

@admiralmotti89 wrote:
I was documenting previous messages when I came across this one. This is a message he sent to me (with mine below) when I notified I had returned the item according to his policy. Crazy right from the get go. Hopefully the fact that he blatantly stated he will state there were things missing, before he even got it back, is a big sign in my favor. But you never know what malicious people like this will say. I appreciate all the support and help from you guys so far, hopefully this is almost over. Delivery predicted for tomorrow.

You are to be so commended for remaining professional when the seller isn't. You must be one heck of a guy.

dinpavent0 · ‎04-24-2019

Yes totally unprofessional and ridiculous. Some sellers seem to think that every buyer is a scam artist or he may have had it happen in the past. Still tho, it is totally and absolutely WRONG to accuse someone of that before even getting the package back. Besides, it sounds like it was a "Lot" and how would he even know if something was missing or not. I personally have had a buyer do that to me, purchase a lot from me and remove 2 of the items and then open return saying items came damaged. They returned to me missing a couple items. All I did was simply refund and chose not to sell to them again. I don't get many returns (since I am honest about conditions of items in description), but when I do I treat each and every one with respect and take their word for it, just because one buyer in past did that to me doesn't mean that every buyer is like that.
This guy is just a real jerk off... sorry .....lol , but seriously, keep messages and I am sure eBay will back you on this and you will get your refund. By sounds of it, this is not the first time this guy has done this to someone. I hope I never buy from him. You did right thing, and stayed professional, and i would NOT answer any of his messages.. just keep them for record and eBay can see them. Hope this situation is over soon for you.

admiralmotti89 · ‎04-25-2019

All right, so the package is arriving today, according to the tracking info at least.

He has threatened to keep as much as he can from the refund, including a 10% restocking fee (stated nowhere in the listing) original shipping, and deducting the shipping cost of the return label (no idea what that comes to). I wonder if I made a mistake when I did the return: I almost clicked "not as described" as the reason, but since he had free returns I figured why impugn him, so I think I picked either "damaged" (which some of the boxes inside were) or "didn't like it."

eBay said if he doesn't refund me the full amount, I can call them, but I want to know the right way to do that. Apparently he has two days to refund me after it arrives, but I heard in this thread to call as soon as delivery is attempted.

He's pretty clearly stated he intends to claim there are cards missing, and he seemed to suggest he's going to claim damage to the package, all before he gets it back. I hear he can refund as little as 50%, and I have no doubt he will make as many dishonest claims as he has to to justify that.

I understand if the reason I selected for the return means I don't get reimbursed my original shipping cost, but how do I make sure I get the item cost back when this guy is clearly intending to short me, to put it mildly?

myangelandmyprincess · ‎04-25-2019

I think when a no returns seller does a partial refund you can appeal with eBay still for a full refund. How well that works is yet to be seen. I haven't seen anyone on these boards reporting having done this yet.

“Birth certificates show that you were born. Death certificates show that you died. Photographs show that you have lived.” -Unknown

admiralmotti89 · ‎04-25-2019

Interesting. Here's what confuses me. He offered free 30 day returns, money back, seller pays return shipping. In the description he describes that I can also return the item. But then elsewhere in the description he says he will not take returns. So he is not a no returns seller, even though he apparently thought he was?

In any case, what grounds would he have, considering it was free 30 day returns (at least the listing was set up that way), to withhold any of my refund?

myangelandmyprincess · ‎04-25-2019

@admiralmotti89 wrote:
Interesting. Here's what confuses me. He offered free 30 day returns, money back, seller pays return shipping. In the description he describes that I can also return the item. But then elsewhere in the description he says he will not take returns. So he is not a no returns seller, even though he apparently thought he was?

In any case, what grounds would he have, considering it was free 30 day returns (at least the listing was set up that way), to withhold any of my refund?

If the return section has a return policy then the buyer can return. What the seller rights in the description doesn't negate that

“Birth certificates show that you were born. Death certificates show that you died. Photographs show that you have lived.” -Unknown

tracdea1 · ‎04-25-2019

As long as ebay has the tracking number for the return and it shows delivered, you will win your case. Do not reply to the seller's threatening messages. Sellers typically do not like to deal with returns but arguing with a buyer doesn't really help them in the protection system.

The seller may have reason to believe that the return is a remorse return, and not a true NAD return. Not liking something doesn't mean that the item was not described properly. So you may very well be in the right as far as returning the item and getting a refund, you may not have been in the right for your reason to return.

If I was the seller, and a buyer threatened me with "refund or else", I would no longer communicate with that buyer, and would definitely add them to my list. This seller chose to argue. What a waste of energy.

Wait for the return to close (ebay will do this automatically in your favor), because the seller is undoubtedly not going to refund on his own.

tracdea1 · ‎04-25-2019

"Damaged" is just another type of NAD. Now that we have more of the story, pretty sure you misused the MBG.

lacemaker3 · ‎04-25-2019

@tracdea1 wrote:
"Damaged" is just another type of NAD. Now that we have more of the story, pretty sure you misused the MBG.

I don't see any abuse of the MBG here.

According to the OP's previous thread, the item was both NAD and damaged as well (had damage that was not described).

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping-Returns/Conflicting-Return-Information/m-p/29744488

monster-deals · ‎04-25-2019

@dinpavent0 wrote:
I treat each and every one with respect

I only give out respect when it is earned or deserved, not for free because it is Tuesday.

Treating everyone with the same level of respect, just because, is a great way to get repeatedly taken advantage of.

tracdea1 · ‎04-25-2019

Nah - too many details of nitpickery.

no_zero369 · ‎04-25-2019

@admiralmotti89 wrote:
All right, so the package is arriving today, according to the tracking info at least.

He has threatened to keep as much as he can from the refund, including a 10% restocking fee (steated nowhere in the listing) original shipping, and deducting the shipping cost of the return label (no idea what that comes to). I wonder if I made a mistake when I did the return: I almost clicked "not as described" as the reason, but since he had free returns I figured why impugn him, so I think I picked either "damaged" (which some of the boxes inside were) or "didn't like it."

eBay said if he doesn't refund me the full amount, I can call them, but I want to know the right way to do that. Apparently he has two days to refund me after it arrives, but I heard in this thread to call as soon as delivery is attempted.

He's pretty clearly stated he intends to claim there are cards missing, and he seemed to suggest he's going to claim damage to the package, all before he gets it back. I hear he can refund as little as 50%, and I have no doubt he will make as many dishonest claims as he has to to justify that.

I understand if the reason I selected for the return means I don't get reimbursed my original shipping cost, but how do I make sure I get the item cost back when this guy is clearly intending to short me, to put it mildly?

OK, this seller is completely out to lunch!

First, IF the seller had eBay's suggested "Free 30-day Returns" then they are clueless as to how returns work or just plain acting emotionally or ignorantly (uneducated). Sounds like you got a return label from the seller, so fortunately that didn't cost you anything.

Second, it usually makes a HUGE difference what you selected as to the reason for the return. If you selected "not as described" or "damaged" then these are reasons for a SNAD case (significantly not as described). In those situations (a SNAD case), the seller is required to pay the return shipping costs AND provide a full refund. So if you selected "I didn't like it" that is a "remorse reason." When the seller does not have free returns, then this is a remorse situation, the buyer has to pay for the return shipping. But if I am reading your posts correctly, the seller had free returns and issued a return label, so that in essence (free returns) negates and claim for shipping costs from buyer to seller. Again, any claim counter to that is just ignorant (uneducated into eBay policies).

Next a seller claiming that he is going to deduct a 10% restocking fee is again a clueless seller. eBay did away with allowing sellers to deduct restocking fees about a year ago. A seller CAN NOT under eBay policy deduct for restocking, period. The seller has no clue.

Now as to a refund on shipping cost to get the item from the seller to you.... that can depend.... If the listing shows free returns or 30-day returns then the seller, per eBay policy is required to provide a 100% refund: cost of item AND any additional shipping charges. Now one caveat: If the seller had free returns AND the item comes back damaged, then the seller, per eBay policy "can" deduct up to 50% of the cost of the item when issuing a refund. But this seller, in all of of their wisdom has shot them self in the foot with all of those accusations, threats and claims! The seller has already stated, before they get the item back that they are going to claim damage or something else. Seriously? lol Stuff like that does not fly with eBay, so the seller is going to lose!

Best thing to do is to wait until the package shows delivered OR attempted delivery or refused. THEN call eBay during times when one is likely to get USA reps (after 8 AM west coast time) and ask for the Trust & Safety Department. Talk to them and request a FULL (100%) refund. Ask the rep to review the emails the seller sent with threats, etc. State that you do not wish to wait for the seller to act before your escalate as you do not wish to deal with this any longer. IF eBay rep sees those emails, I suspect they will issue a refund on the spot.

Now the last bit of advice and perhaps the hardest - I know this seller is a jerk and I know this whole situation is upsetting - but one needs to stay level, cool calm & collected! I know at times when things like this happen to me I get upset and want to act right away! Just want to get things over with or strike back. Sadly, that is the wrong thing to do. The hardest things for me is to step back, take stock and then respond cerebrally and not emotionally. It is a lot hard to do, but one wins more often by using their head and not their emotions. Well for me anyway.

But it looks like one is on the right track with what has been posted here. Don't argue with an idiot. Talk with eBay in a calm manner and point to all of the facts and one should be OK.

Good luck! Let us know how it works out!

jeannicho22 · ‎04-25-2019

@myangelandmyprincess wrote:
I think when a no returns seller does a partial refund you can appeal with eBay still for a full refund. How well that works is yet to be seen. I haven't seen anyone on these boards reporting having done this yet.

Or he can just go to PayPal and get the remainder back. I believe the partial refund is when the seller has free returns.

admiralmotti89 · ‎04-25-2019

A lot of people had posted (thanks) so a few things:

1. I don't think I misused the returns process. If anything I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt by not doing NAD. I understand using NAD when it's remorse is abuse, but using remorse when it's remorse, NAD, and a bit of damage, that's doing the seller a favor as I understand it since NAD means (I think) he reimburses original shipping and purchase price.

2. I called eBay as soon as delivery was confirmed. They said they made a note that I will be refunded the full purchase price (it seems excluding original shipping) on the 29th if the seller doesn't do so by then, and I can call if he doesn't give me the full amount back. They said they are going to force a refund if necessary. It was a very quick conversation once I mentioned a few of the messages (and I wonder if some of them were already noted on their screen. Some really atrocious stuff)

3. I guess I'm not out of the woods completely yet, but after 3 calls I've had 3 assurances that it's going to work out right. (right except for the fact that I can't post feedback that is just screenshots of his messages)