Returned items from buyers not received? Read This Now!

[nimble_llc]

Hello all.

I've tried SEVERAL times to explain this to the fine folks at eBay, but I don't think they quite get it: There is a bug in the eBay software that will randomly change your mailing and/or shipping address to a previous address. This has happened to me twice and has cost me countless hours on the phone and emails and I have no idea how much money. eBay has yet to do anything about this so I thought I would inform the community.

THE SCENARIO:
A couple of weeks ago, I sent a package to Florida, but due to the Corona virus outbreak, the person who was to receive the package was not going to be in town as the conference they were attending was cancelled. I asked the seller to have the hotel they were staying at simply 'return to sender' and thought that would be in the end of it. HOWEVER ... when I went back and looked at the photo of the item and shipping label (I photograph absolutely everything I send on eBay with the shipping label), I noticed that the return address on the label was an apartment that I've not lived at for some 12 years now.

I tried contacting the post office, but there was nothing they could do about it. I've tried visiting my old apartment but there is never anyone home. I've tried getting some sort of compensation from eBay for the bug in their software and the pretend that they have no idea what I'm talking about (again). Even as I write this, my package sits in a post office equivalent of a holding cell and I can not retrieve it. Meanwhile, I've refunded the original purchaser so I'm out both the money and the item (again). I've called eBay, I've written to eBay and still nothing ... emails attached below.

THIS HAPPENED BEFORE:
This happened to me before around the beginning of 2018. I noticed that both items that I sent out which were returned by the buyer were not finding their way back to me, and items that I purchased on eBay were also, sporadically, not showing up. After talking with the post office, I arrived at the conclusion that there was a package thief frequenting my home.

I purchased a complete security system, cameras at every door, and gave explicit instructions to the post person about where to deliver my packages ... but the packages still either disappeared or did not arrive at all. Upon comparing the date stamps on the security footage to the delivery dates on the USPS site, I even thought, momentarily, that perhaps the mail delivery person was taking the packages. I could see that they were delivering mail and packages, but occasionally the delivery time stamp did not quite add up to the security time stamp -- those were they occasions when the packages would be missing. The other strange thing was, if I had something arriving on the same day as my wife, her package would be delivered, but my own would not. It took several days, several phone calls and several very uncomfortable moments with our mail delivery person (Mike) to finally get to the bottom of the situation: Some of, but not all, of my packages were being delivered to my old address.

DISCOVERY:
When I looked in the eBay interface, I found that everything looked as it should: my return, mailing and shipping addresses were all correct. I was flummoxed. It wasn't until I went into the interface from the 'help' section of the eBay interface that I found a 'change your address' link that took me to what looked like a 'retro' version of the eBay interface ... and there it was, my OLD address. I suspected then that what was happening was that there was an old eBay server that did not 'get the memo' that was occasionally supplying my old address when one of the newer servers was busy and load was shifted to the 'support' servers.

I attempted to convey this information to eBay but was dismissed, hung up on (sorry .. I mean 'disconnected'), transferred, dropped, sent to the wrong person, picked up by the wrong person ... I had to explain the situation no fewer than a dozen times before I finally reached someone who actually listened and tried to help ... before we got disconnected.

After HOURS on the phone with eBay (after losing a case wherein the seller rightfully challenged a my dispute for not having received an item (again)), I was finally granted an audience with an employee who actually bothered to look at my purchase history long enough to notice that my mailing address was bouncing from new to old to new again without any apparent rhythm. The case was reversed, but not before I insisted that the seller was not at fault either -- eBay didn't like that. In the end, they relented ... the seller got paid and I got my refund (and someone at my old address got all of the stuff I had ordered over the months and months that this situation went undiagnosed), but the flaw in the software remains.

CONCLUSION:
I am no more in the habit of checking to see if my mailing address has reverted to an address I've not inhabited for 12 years than I am in the habit of checking to see if my belly button is still in the middle of my stomach. Even as I photograph every item and mailing label that I ever send to eBay buyers, I almost never look at my own address. Why would I? My fear is that countless thousands of well meaning eBayer's have either been victim of this flaw or have wrongfully accused sellers of ill-intent. I only want my money back, my merchandise back and for eBay to fix this problem so that I can go back to using the web site without the taste of bile that accompanies it nowadays.

In the end, eBay has almost zero motivation to address, acknowledge or repair this situation as they simply pass the costs (time and money) on to us, the buyers and sellers of the platform. It costs them no time, very little energy and no money to continue to turn a blind eye to this problem. If it has happened to me twice, I can not help but believe that it has happened to practically anyone who has changed addresses within the past 12 years or so. Without confirmation or solution from eBay, we may simply never know.

Shame on you eBay.

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THE CONVERSATION:
Here is the transcript from the almost laughable email exchange with eBay regarding this issue (i've reversed the order for readability, but nothing else has changed):

From: <xxxxxxx@gmail..com>
Sent: 3/29/2020 1:09:35 AM
To:
CC:
Subject: Ask eBay to step in (seller)

Enter your question / concern

Let's start at the beginning:

the eBay software reverted my return shipping address to the address for apartment that I've not lived in for 12 years.

Please re-read the above statement.

As such, when the user was unable to accept the package, it has been 'returned' to that old address. I've not been able to intercept the package and I have no idea what will happen to it next. I'll have lost an item due to a glitch in eBay's software .... AGAIN!

This is the SECOND (at least) time this has happened to me (that I'm aware of). Back when it happened the first time, I went in and fixed my return shipping address, mailing address, etc.. I alerted eBay to this situation, and did everything I could (aside from wait on the phone for another two or four hours) to make sure that I alerted the correct people and that the situation got resolved. A couple of weeks ago, too late for me to do anything about it, I noticed that the situation was not resolved, my package has gone missing and that eBay has completely failed to remedy the issue.

I am writing to request that eBay refund me for the missing item (I have not been able to retrieve my package from the post office: tracking number 9461208205497xxxxxxxxxxx) and that they FIX the problem. If it has happened to me (twice that I'm aware of), it has doubtless happened to thousands of eBay customers. This problem has cost me at 5 hours of my life between being on hold with the post office, on the phone with paypal or attempting to get this fixed with eBay (again).

My next effort, failing an acceptable response from eBay, will be to notify as many eBay customers as I can reach about this issue.

Send a copy to my email address.
on

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EBAY:

RE: Ask eBay to step in (seller) SR# 1-253086840516

Hello John,

I am Herson from eBay.

Kindly provide us with the following so we can further assist

1. Item Id or Order Number:
2. Item Name or Description:

Thanks,
Herson C
eBay Customer Service

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ME:

RE: Ask eBay to step in (seller) SR# 1-253086840516

Item information provided below

Hello John,

I am Herson from eBay.

Kindly provide us with the following so we can further assist

1. Item Id or Order Number: 23-04592-xxxxx
2. Item Name or Description: :: Sony xxxxxxx : .....

Thanks,
Herson C
eBay Customer Service

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EBAY:

RE: Re: Ask eBay to step in (seller) SR# 1-253086840516

Hello John,

Thank you for contacting eBay I received your case regarding the item ":: Sony xxxxxx : " (114148xxxxxx) recently purchased. It is my pleasure to assist you further.

While checking this return case I can see that your return address here is:

xxxxxxx xxxxx xxx
Portland OR xxxxxx xxxx
US

If this is not your address you can contact the courier so that they can send the item to your address.

Thank you for choosing eBay as your online marketplace and have a great day.

Kind regards,
Aljun
eBay Customer Service

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ME:

Can you please forward this thread to a manager/supervisor/technician or owner?

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EBAY:

RE: Re: Re: Ask eBay to step in (seller) SR# 1-253086840516

Hello John,

Thank you for contacting eBay about the Sony xxxxxxxxxx : (114148xxxxxxx) sold to xxxxx-1. Let me assist you with further.

I know that you are concerned that the item is being shipped to your old address. Upon checking your account, at the time that the return was opened, this is the address that we have for the return:

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx
Portland OR xxxxxxxxx
US

If the this is your old address, we recommend for you to get in touch with USPS since the buyer shipped the item using their service.

We appreciate your cooperation with this concern.

Regards,
Marie
Supervisor -eBay Customer Support

Thanks,
eBay

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ME:

no .. really.
PLEASE forward this to a manager or supervisor.
i don't seem to be getting my point across to anyone that i've talked to so far.

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EBAY:

RE: Re: Re: Re: Ask eBay to step in (seller) SR# 1-253086840516

Hello John,

This is Jacob from Ebay Customer Support .. Thank you for reaching us regarding your concern. I know that you are worried about the transaction . I read the previous emails and I see that you were already able to communicate with one of our supervisors . May I know the reason why you still want to proceed with another supervisor ?

I trust that the information I've provided will help your concern. I wish you all the best on eBay in the future .

Have a great day and Take care always .

Thanks,
eBay

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ME:

The reason is that this is my fifth email on the subject and no one, so far, seems to be willing to address the root cause of the issue or understand the complexity of my problem.

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EBAY:

RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ask eBay to step in (seller) SR# 1-253086840516

Hello John,

Thank you so much for reaching out to ebay customer support. My name is Julie. I would be more than happy to assist you for today. I do understand that your having issues about the item :: Sony xxxxxxxxxxx : with the item number 11414839xxxxx. Let me further advise.

I understand that you already tried to reach out to the shipping carrier regarding the item that was sent to your other address, we are so sorry to hear that. For the meantime John it would still be best to reach out to shipping carrier for them to be able to check on your package. We are asking for your patience and understanding since this is a transaction that should be dealt directly to the shipping carrier. Thank you so much for doing business with ebay.

Thanks,
Julie G.
eBay

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ME:

please allow me to state this plainly:

i have already reached out to the post office - there is nothing they can do as the return address provided by YOUR software was incorrect.
YOUR software is the whole reason i have spent HOURS on the phone with the post office and now this SIXTH email to explain the problem which has still not been acknowledged in any response to either of my emails.
so, again ... there is nothing more i can do on my end with the post office. i've called them, i've opened cases with them, i've called the local post office branch, i've tried calling the hub and asking them to hold the package for me (they will not) ... i am out of options, patience and time to deal with this ... i have a real job that is not fixing problems caused by glitches in ebays software.

also ... this is the SECOND time this has happened. your software, for some strange reason, reverted my return address to an address that i have not used in some 12 years. i went through similar pains the last time this happened to communicate to your staff that there is a bug in your software and it took me several hours back then as well.

please read this twice (or as many times as needed) before sending me another email.

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EBAY:

RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ask eBay to step in (seller) SR# 1-253086840516

Hello John,

Thank you for your email regarding the :: Sony xxxxxxxxxx ::(11414839xxxxx).

It's very alarming to know that the return address that you have on file is your address.

Please note that here on ebay we are just following the information that you have on file. I do understand that you updated your shipping address but your registered address was not. As a seller if there is a return request opened from a buyer the address that we are following is the one that was indicated on your registered address not the one that is on your shipping address.

In order for this not to be happened again in the future, make sure to update your shipping address. I have checked the details of the tracking as well and it shows that the expected delivery date is on march 31, 2020. The option that you have for that is for you to retrieve it to your old address or if you have a person that you can reach to that location then that would be better.

Thanks,
Roldan R.
eBay

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ME:

Please tell me this is a joke ... otherwise I'll be quite angry at this point.
Please have someone who can grasp the entirety of this conversation contact me. No one else need bother.

Thanks.

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... 3 days later ... nothing from ebay so ...

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ME:
ok then.
i guess i'll go the other route: let's find out what the ebay community thinks about this.

truly **bleep** off
- john

[kensgiftshop]

---

@nimble_llc wrote:

 when I went back and looked at the photo of the item and shipping label (I photograph absolutely everything I send on eBay with the shipping label), I noticed that the return address on the label was an apartment that I've not lived at for some 12 years now.

---

Why didn't you check the label when you printed it?

[nimble_llc]

"I am no more in the habit of checking to see if my mailing address has reverted to an address I've not inhabited for 12 years than I am in the habit of checking to see if my belly button is still in the middle of my stomach. Even as I photograph every item and mailing label that I ever send to eBay buyers, I almost never look at my own address. Why would I?"

... I thought I made that fairly obvious in the body of the text above.

[oldwestgold]

As an IT Mgr of over 33 years, I would suspect what I call OE. - Operator error. Somewhere in your setup defaults you still have an old address. Check both your eBay and Paypal defaults showing your address.  Good luck!  PS:  Way too long of a post............  Just sayin'.

[myescape]

When you discovered the reason the first time why are you not checking?

You are responsible to confirm address shown in order details is correct and all info on every shipping label is correct.You need to protect yourself

I almost never look at my own address. Why would I?"

Because you were having delivery issues and the info is there in checkout and label creation for you to check.Why do you photograph but to verify that info if customer has an issue?

[nimble_llc]

Clearly a manager:
You missed the part where I did (as an engineer would) check my addresses -- all of them that I had access to through the 'obvious' channels. In the 'obvious' interface, my addresses (all of them) were correct. In the hidden (back in the weeds -- Alice-in-wonderland) interface, the address was not. Not even the 'personnel' who took my calls were aware that this second, antique interface existed.

The post is long because it contains details, such as this, which a manager would miss (but an engineer -- as I requested when speaking with eBay personnel -- would probably not). Just sayin'.
It is amazing to me that I express frustration to the community in an effort to illuminate an issue which may, in fact, impact them at some point only to be attacked by that same community.

Be well.

[nimble_llc]

So ... here's whole the deal and the very reason I've brought this forward to the community:

1.) When you send a package out it may have the correct return address, but when a buyer attempts to return the package, they print out their own label which may have an incorrect return address on it. You, the seller, do not see this address when you print the mailing label to send the package to the buyer. But yes, occasionally (not all of the time, I've gone back and looked) even the return address on my mailing labels was incorrect. Again .. not something you would notice if your focus is on the package getting to your BUYER.

2.) If the package is sent from the buyer back to the 'wrong' address, you do not see that the address is wrong then either (because you never get the package ... or the label with the 'wrong' address ... because .. um .. the package never gets to you because .. it was sent to the wrong address).

3.) When I did realize that the problem was not someone stealing packages from my front porch, I did scour the eBay interface for ALL addresses associated with my account. I did not find the address then either.

4.) When I contacted eBay directly, even THEY could not account for the missing packages as the address in the interface that I had access to had the correct address.

5.) It wasn't until I challenged the Post office (this is literally hours into this investigation) that I discovered that the missing shipments had gone to my old address. I had literally not lived there in 10 years and could not find ANY reference to it in the eBay interface until I stumbled upon the address in a very round-about-path.

6.) After I discovered and updated this hidden return address, I contacted eBay and (even this effort took hours to reach anyone who would even listen to me) attempted to advise them of the issue/error. I can't tell you how many people I talked to before I finally reached someone who seemed to listen.

For clarity, I've been on eBay since 1999. I've seen the interface go through multiple incarnations over the years. The interface where I found my old address looked, by comparison to the eBay interface design that I was used to, appeared to be wearing bell-bottoms. It was a much older version of the eBay interface design.

7.) During the conversation with this last (and finally helpful) technician, we also discovered that the issue affected not only my return mailing address, but my verified shipping address. The tech in question was able to pull up several items that I had recently purchased and saw with his own eyes that one shipment would go to my old address .. and a shipment on the same day would go to my current address.

Summary:

It seems a simple thing to blame this on 'User Error' ... that's a proven way to let BUGS go undetected for years and years ... as this one has and continues to. I have been a software engineer since I was 19 years old ... I happen to know that if you don't talk to an actual engineer who can see beyond the assumption, the problem will possibly never get resolved.