Return of a counterfeit

[vroomfondel2002]

In a nutshell, bought an item, got sent a counterfeit. Complained, seller didn't dispute that the item is fake. Wants a return. Ebay contacts them to send me a pre-paid shipping label for the return. Get a form letter back saying that they can't send me a label, but does not offer a reason as to why not. The letter clearly states that the return shipping is at their expense and that after I return the item at my expense up front I'll get reimbursed later. It's a ridiculous system to allow them to pass the buck and force me to spend more money to recover the orignal payment, but that's a different discussion.

I tried multiple times to contact the seller to discuss shipping options and prices and they refuse to answer. It's a $36 item and return shipping to China will be a minimum of $50, but can easily reach $100+ if I choose a faster method. What are my options here and how can this boomerang to bite me on the behind? Am I forced into going with the cheapest shipping? If I choose to go with something faster, more secure, more reliable and more expensive can the seller force me to eat the extra money since I spent more than the required minimum? Would I be better off to just dispute the charges with my credit card company?

And might I repeat, it's an absolutely asinine system that I'll be forced to spend $50-$100 out of pocket and wait god knows how long to recover that plus the orginal $36.

[brad62853]

@vroomfondel2002

I'm assuming you did in fact open an INAD (Item Not As Described) case in the eBay resolution center, correct? If so and the seller refuses to provide the return shipping label within the allotted time frame then call eBay and escalate the case to have them force the refund and no return of the item.

This is a link from a past Weekly Chat before Jeff Terrell left regarding the MBG, return shipping and sellers outside the US. Scroll down to message #36 and I would upload this link to the case just prior to escalating it with eBay.

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Weekly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Weekly-Chat-with-the-eBay-Community-June-10...

[vroomfondel2002]

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@brad62853 wrote:

@vroomfondel2002

I'm assuming you did in fact open an INAD (Item Not As Described) case in the eBay resolution center, correct? If so and the seller refuses to provide the return shipping label within the allotted time frame then call eBay and escalate the case to have them force the refund and no return of the item.

This is a link from a past Weekly Chat before Jeff Terrell left regarding the MBG, return shipping and sellers outside the US. Scroll down to message #36 and I would upload this link to the case just prior to escalating it with eBay.

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Weekly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Weekly-Chat-with-the-eBay-Community-June-10...

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I did in fact go through the proper channels and I think followed proper protocol on this

-Started by filing a INAD case

-Seller replied saying fine, send it back at my expense and listed like 20 steps and 50 hoops I needed to jump through.

-I refused and countered that they were responsible for returns.

-They acquiesced and I got the official notice from ebay that the seller accepted the resolution that the item was fake and they would issue a return/refund and send me a prepaid shipping label to slap on a box.

-Another period of time passed and I got another official notice from ebay that the seller could not provide a shipping label and that I was therefore responsible for doing it myself. It assured me that I would be reimbursed for the shipping, but nothing regarding the method I should use to ship.

-Treid to contact seller to arrange for the method they wanted and wanted to pay for, no reply

-Tried again, no reply

-Priced shipping options and it really is $50 and up for return shipping to China with some options well over $100. This for an item that they can make, tops. $20 on if they get it back and resell it to some other sucker who doesn't notice its fake.

So now I'm wondering if I'm throwing good money after bad. They already tried to rob me once and now appear to be intentionally stonewalling me in the hopes that I give up and go away. In my mind there are a bunch of ways that I can get burned if I continue and do the return at my expense up front.

[phcd1]

If the seller can't supply a return shipping label, that is their problem, not yours. The seller has only a three options if you opened a SNAD claim in eBay, 1. Return for 100% refund (seller pays return shipping), 2. 100% refund (buyer keeps item) and 3. Off a partial refund and buyer keeps item(many sellers don't use this option). Just wait the 3-5 days for the seller to send you a pre-paid shipping label and when he doesn't, "Ask eBay to Step in" and you will be refunded. BTW, return shipping to China is VERY cost prohibitive and typically not worth doing. I would wait and escalate.

[phcd1 · Accepted solution]

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@vroomfondel2002 wrote:

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...-Started by filing a INAD case

-Seller replied saying fine, send it back at my expense and listed like 20 steps and 50 hoops I needed to ...

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Ignore what the seller says. Escalate the case to eBay (ask eBay to step in) as soon as you can, typically 3-5 days. The seller is scamming you hoping you'll go away. You WILL get a refund without paying return shipping. Do NOT spend any money to return anything on eBay, especially to China.

[vroomfondel2002]

Thanks.

That's what I'll do. But I did get the official notice from ebay that was titled: "The seller can't send a return shipping label" and that was kind of confusing. They should make it more clear that the sellers refusal to issue a label doesn't paint the buyer into a corner because that's the way it reads.

And yeah, return shipping to China is a real eye-opener.  Using e-packet from China to the US is dirt cheap, no discount options going the other way.

[hafoster]

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@phcd1 wrote:

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@vroomfondel2002 wrote:

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...-Started by filing a INAD case

-Seller replied saying fine, send it back at my expense and listed like 20 steps and 50 hoops I needed to ...

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Ignore what the seller says. Escalate the case to eBay (ask eBay to step in) as soon as you can, typically 3-5 days.

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OP cannot ask eBay to step in it -- the seller already accepted the return.

This is yet another leak in the returns flow: Agree to send a label. Then don't.

You have to call eBay now: Refer to your list of expletives on what to call eBay.

[missjen831]

Yes you have to call eBay. Once the return has been accepted, you cannot ask ebay to step in. There seems to be a myth on the boards that you can ask eBay to step in after 3-5 days whether the return has been accepted or not. But the fact is, once the return is accepted, you cannot ask eBay to step in until 6 days after the item has been delivered to the seller (and you must upload tracking to prove it). Your seller cannot provide a label because they are in China. You now have to call and fight with customer service and hope that they will refund you without the item being returned.

[dm772012]

stopped buying from any vendor from China. I bought at least 4 items over last two years. Worth **bleep** ever! Not as described, cheaply made...sizes would fit preteen. Cut clothing to Asian standards. Most items are junk. I had to seller extort me...she sent me so many harassing email that I had to have Ebay block her. I'm easy person to please. I read every single detail in listing that I purchase from. I give 1000% percent to all my customers. Last year after Christmas, I had too many returns...they all lied to get money back without paying return ship. I opted out of 30 day return program. I buy local or USA

[vroomfondel2002]

Yep, no way to force the issue online. I had to call and wait on hold and explain and hold again and explain again and hold again to finally get a resolution.

Thanks for the help.

And if anyone from ebay is monitoring the communities, that's a loophole that needs to be closed. Allowing these thieves to agree to a return and then letting them refuse to act ties our hands and forces us to jump through another dozen hoops to get the matter solved. Why do they get the easy way out? If they agree to a return the refund should be processed automatically if they refuse to do it themselves. Or at the very least add tools so that we can escalate online without going through the hassle of a phone call.

[baggs-2024]

And?  when this happens, it is NOT the seller that is forced to refund, it is a "courtesy" refund by ebay and the seller is found not at fault.  OP can you leave feedback for this transaction?  May have to go to feedback forum to find it as it will not appear in your purchase history any longer.

I had one exactly like this and couldn't even leave feedback.  No fault, "courtesy" refund.  Yup, some courtesy.  Ebay defends the china sellers at their cost.  No one can figure out why, because they are costing ebay money at every turn, especially since this is really starting to get out--how NOT to pay to return junk and how NOT to let them stretch you past your MBG window and how NOT to wait and wait for a label that is never coming.

[fashion-junquee]

eBay makes tons of money from Chinese sellers. It's not much different than sellers here issuing refunds to avoid dings and negs. It's just the cost of doing business.

Personally, I only buy cheap things from China. I am rarely disappointed with my purchases. The one time I was I was angry because of the poor packing on a $4 item which caused breakage. Instead of going through the whole process I just negged them and forgot about it...until they contacted me to bend over backwards to make me happy. Ended up with a refund without return.

[starofradiance]

I realize this is an older question, but it is an ongoing issue.   Here is the fact:

IN THE UNITED STATES IT IS ILLEGAL FOR YOU TO KNOWINGLY RETURN A COUNTERFEIT BECAUSE UDER 18 U.S. Code § 2320  IT IS A FELONY TO KNOWING SHIP A COUNTERFEIT except by court order, to turn it over to the FBI, or with written permission from patent/copyright/trademark holder..  That is why eBay has the policy in effect that you do not have to return a counterfeit.  Once you have filled out and signed the certification that you have destroyed and disposed of the counterfeit, you will be refunded your purchase price plus the shipping.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html  

"Counterfeit items

If a buyer suspects that an item is counterfeit, and there are strong indicators that the item is counterfeit, we don't require the buyer to return the item to the seller. The buyer agrees to cooperate with us to ensure the proper disposal of the item. In such instances, we refund the buyer for the full cost of the item and original shipping, and the seller reimburses us for the refund. The buyer may not sell the item on eBay or elsewhere."

[tarpedge]

This topic is outdated and no longer relevant. Besides, trafficking and shipping are unrelated words, in addition to not even spelled the same.