No returns is a joke

[99623]

This is a joke, I sold a rare coin: 172905601144

"No Returns"

"No returns" are something that is a joke, I sold a coin in mint condition just to have the buyer wanting to return it. I stated " no returns" when I listed the coin for sale, which is a joke, the seller is a coin dealer and I realize that he wanted my mint condition coin so he could swap it for a worthless piece of **bleep** coin.   

eBay doesn't care about you as a seller, they encourage this thievery by not enforcing the " no returns" and not backing up the seller. The buyer can screw over seller and do it with the help of eBay letting him get away with it. I told the eBay help line (which has foreigners who can't speak English) that they needed to remove the options for returns since its a crock of **bleep**. It's misleading, to offer the seller something that's a lie. Most people are complacent and will cave in and allow others to walk over them, this buyer thought that I was a door mat and could walk over me. 

The buyer, who is a coin dealer, from Pennsylvania, at first he offered me half of the coin value after he received the coin, which is absurd, then he said that the coin was not the one for sale. 

He saw my coin, for sale, that was mint and bought it for only one thing, to switch it and I don't have any way to fight it. 

It's absurd to think that I have another rare coin just like the one that I sent him. So how many rare coins can someone possess for sale, especially when the coin is a rare $2.50 eagle head, in excellent condition, minted in Denver that is the same gold value when it was struck. This buyer kept saying he was honest, well if he was honest he would have kept the deal and not whined about it, and he would not have tried to offer me half of the value.  I stated " no refunds", any reputable buyer would not return the item and breach the contract. That is why this buyer is dishonest and can't be trusted he breached a contract. 

So who is going to pay for the eBay fees, the PayPal fees for this dishonest buyer, the seller gets the bag full of fees, as a seller I got screwed by the: buyer, PayPal, and by eBay.  

So what do I recommend, don't trust eBay for help if you get into a trap with the buyer, the eBay help line is a joke, they don't help you, however you must not allow the unscrupulous buyer to get away with this **bleep**. This thief is aware of eBay and how to manipulate the system taking advantage of buyers, it is a great scam to buy something then send back something simular but worthless. 


If you contact EBay and let them know that the item was switched they will tell you to file a police report. They are worthless, and you are screwed.

[lintbrush*]

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@99623 wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/21/ebay-accused-failing-sellers-buyers-manipulate-system-...

I walked away from this, until I read the link I put into the last post, about how buyers running ramped on eBay returning items that were not the sellers original item. This validates my claim that most buyers are criminals and eBay is not doing anything about it, and that is why eBay is having poor ratings.

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I totally disagree with your "most buyers are criminals" statement.

In 2,000+ transactions, I have had 2 false SNAD claims.  One I partially paid off because I really did not want the set back at all.  The 2nd (over $300) sent back exacatly what I sent and it was not SNAD.  Buyer was just unhappy with the 50+ year old, used vintage condition which was fully disclosed and pictured in the listing and expected it to match new stuff.  I actually raised the price $25 (to cover the shipping expense loss) and next buyer loved it.

Your buyer claimed it was not as described.  Was it done formally through a SNAD return request? Purchase is covered by the Money Back Guarantee - which is prominently displayed below your 'Seller does not offer returns" snapshot.   It's all spelled out in the User Agreement.  Unless you have a message from the buyer that simply says the coin is fine and they changed their mind, you're accepting the return.

Fight an official SNAD return request, and you will lose your selling fees for sure (not to mention the Seller Unresolved major defect).  That's how it works if eBay has to intervene.  

[myangelandmyprincess]

Ah yes I was going to mention disagreeing with most buyers are criminals.  It may seem that way because bad things happening gets posted.  Most people don't post when things run normal and smooth thus it makes it look worse than it is 

[99623]

EBay needs changes, members should have complete transparency about their activities. A list of return, cases, etc should be made public so everyone is equal. Feedback should run both ways, criminals need to be exposed and eBay needs to quit covering up and looking $$$$$$.  Better to be on the defense and not loose money than being caught naked.

[99623]

The whole thing boils down to everyone getting equal treatment buyers and sellers. That way everyone can make eBay work for everyone. If sellers could give honest feedback for buyers, positive and negative making it a level playing field for everyone, that way the buyer becomes transparent and exposed.

If a seller said no refunds the buyer accepts that or they have a choice to move on no is breaking their arm to buy something. It's about choice do you accept the selling terms or not. This is not brain surgery a caveman could understand it. This is why I'm **bleep** off at eBay, people have a choice to buy and if the buyer doesn't want to play ball they need to move on and quit crying like a baby when they buy something that they want to return or scam the buyer. This country has tried it's best to make people act like sheep, bending over backwards to prevent hurting people's feelings which has destroyed this country.

What happened to the old days when you were responsible for your actions, and not blame someone else, or being a opportunist when you find a flaw in the system and exploit it.

[phcd1]

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@lintbrush* wrote:
...In 2,000+ transactions, I have had 2 false SNAD claims.  One I partially paid off because I really did not want the set back at all.  The 2nd (over $300) sent back exacatly what I sent and it was not SNAD....

THAT is what typically happens to me as well. It costs me money but that is the eBay game right now (plus, I just pass that cost on to other buyers anyway, that's why there are very few good deals anymore. Everyone does that).

[phcd1]

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@99623 wrote:

EBay needs changes, members should have complete transparency about their activities. A list of return, cases, etc should be made public so everyone is equal. Feedback should run both ways, criminals need to be exposed and eBay needs to quit covering up and looking $$$$$$.  Better to be on the defense and not loose money than being caught naked.

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I agree, It's not going to happen, but I agree. When eBay went with only positive feedback for buyers option, that is when it all started. There should be options to click for sellers just like they have for 2 or more un paid items. I would like to see more then 1% SNAD cases opened, 1% INR cases opened, 1% chargebacks, etc. They don't have to display that on the buyers sereen name but I should have an option to block people from buying from me if I want to. I've seen buyers with 1000's of bid retractions still buying on eBay.

[vintagecraze50]

First, I am sorry you are having to deal with this. You are not alone. There have been cases here of 6,000.00 designer handbags bought and switched with 30.00 ones, there have been Rolex watches scammed from sellers. Lots of people making a $300 offer for a $100.00 item in order to trick a seller into sending them their pay pal info so that a buyer can send a fake payment. It is true that selling expensive items online anywhere, not just on Ebay is risky business these days. 

In an effort to stop this kind of thievery, not just from buyers but from sellers who sell fake merchandise, Ebay has introduced a program called Ebay Authenticate. This program will most likely protect the seller and the buyer from these scams in the future, as there will be a process where an aunthenticator will inspect and approve the item. As far as the return part, not completely sure how they are going to do this, but it appears they are offering some kind of assurance (I HOPE), that the item coming back in the return will be the one you sent. 

At present, without the use of a program such as this, Ebay does not know what you send, or what will be coming back. If you get back a fake or inferior coin or nothing, you need to hold your mail. Try to get a postal worker to witness what comes back--this will work only if the person sends back nothing-as they can attest that the package was empty. Different item return is harder to prove. You could file a postal fraud report on buyer if that happens, and a police report.  Call, not a regular CS rep, Call the trust and safety dept at Ebay if something like this happens. It is worth a try. 

At this point, it is probably best to accept the return, or this buyer may go to Pay Pal and file a chargeback. These are very hard to fight, and you may end up losing the money and the item there as well. Again. Sorry and truly hope everything works out ok for you in this transaction.

[creoleorchid]

Not to pour salt on the wound but if you will look at the screenshot you posted you will see the words "money Back guarantee" with a link to the policy directly under the part you circled.  You should read it.

At this point you really don't know if the buyer is going to switch coins on you. He may have just put "not the same coin" or whatever he wrote in the notes section of the claim to bolster his case that he felt the quality of the coin differed from what you stated the listing, ergo it must be a different coin.

You really need to rethink digging your heels in on this. Everybody has given you good advice, however disagreeable it seems. It's your best and possibly only chance to get your coin back. You will give a refund if the buyer pushes it. You need to get your coin back and avoid an unresolved case strike. 

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

[vintagecraze50]

We have not had many problems either. We only had one empty box return and that happened many years ago. Most people are honest, good people. It is what Ebay was founded on when it started. The problem is that the internet has grown so much and sales of good on the internet are even surpassing brick and mortar store, When the internet first started they were scarcer opportunities to buy stuff, and are you kidding? selling a Rolex online? UNTHINKABLE. So with better technology, and more opportunities to sell that increases the number of scam artists taking advantage of these opportunities.  The net has to come up with better and better ways to prevent scams from happening.  Google HTTPS, Ebay Authenticate, Other authentication services are advertising on TV as I write.  Ebay started hunting down scammers trying to send fake info in the message system, and off Ebay transaction dealings.

[99623]

I totally disagree about eBay working on a solution, it's obvious that the eBay policies personal only protect the criminals. EBay is a cesspool for criminal activities and they are thriving, compounding the problem is the foreigners who answer the phones.

EBay is about $$$$ the CEO and his cronies are fat and happy with a maximum $$$ coming in and then run the company as little as possible. If the CEO could get away with hiring employees and pay then with coconuts he would do it.

[theheadphonecompany]

Most sellers DONT understand/know this until "it happens to them".

THERES NO SUCH THING AS "NO RETURNS" on eBay, period, the end.

Where eBay is at fault:

1) they USED to believe the seller more then they do now, but as of 2007 the new management team in eBay decided that "like Amazon etc" the BUYER IS ALWAYS RIGHT (even when they are wrong)

2) they believe sellers are expendable - and in some sense they are. Theres always a million people looking to sell their items on eBay. If I leave, if you leave, if the state of Maine (all the people in it) left - it wouldnt matter (1) iota - theres ALWAYS "another sucker waiting in line for the false promise of List, Sell, Ship, Get Paid" (BTW - Im NOT advocating anyone leaving eBay - nor am I telling anyone to).

3) eBay believes that BUYERS and NOT sellers are their customers. "Since the money ORIGINATES" in the BUYERS pocket - therefore the BUYER is the one that should be serviced and NOT the seller. When something goes wrong - its ALWAYS the sellers fault - ALWAYS.

4) eBay is NOT interested in pictures, affidavits, letter from your congressperson, your hot wife, her rich dad or ANYONE ELSE. None of those peoples (inluding but NOT limited to Jesus, Moses, The Profit Mohamed, Gandi, or even Mother Teresa) opinions or emails mean a darn thing in any part of a case. If any of the above SWORE you were right - it wouldnt matter 1 bit.

5) Yes there are many parts in the HELP section that eBay and its CS team IGNORE. Especially the part that says that items MUST come back in the same way they were shipped. Its not enforced, its never going to be inforced - and for good reason - eBay cant/wont EVER tell a buyer they are lying. If they say they got a dead racoon from you instead of a pair of shoes - then thats it - what you say or do - means nothing.

6) So how does this get done? How is it that as a seller, you basically have ZERO rights? The TOS aka the User Agreement. When you sign on to eBay - you IMPLICITLY give them permission to do as they please to insure the smooth operation of the website - in english - they can do what they want, when they want to whom they want - and you agree to it by logging on to the site. In legalese its whats known as a shrinkwrap license and its currently (mostly) upheld - and in this case "you knew job was dangerous when you took it".

%99.9 of all sellers dont know ANY of this. More seasoned sellers know that 1) dont sell anything you cant afford to loose 2) to be MORE then careful when selling hot items that are fraud prone - iPhones, Xbox etc and 3)that eBay WONT be comming to your aid anytime soon.

Seller protection is like the Yeti, Bigfoot, the Jersey Devil, or Kyser Soze - all these things are talked about - but arent "real". You'de be hard pressed to "cough up" any of those things on demand and "seller protection" is the same exact way.

eBay is NOT your partner, your friend, your buddy, your happy place. Its a place where you list items, they take their cut (even unfair parts like fvf on shipping) and give you "back" the rest. ANY issues, problems etc are yours to resolve - lieing or cheating by the buyer not withstanding.

eBay ISNT interested in any he said/she said arguments - they wont take your side in an argument and "generally they just dont care too much" for what happens to you as a seller. Ask any CS agent - they will tell you "taking losses is part of business - here have this one" and thats it.

Take the advice from the smart people here - accept the return and pray to what ever god you hold dear that you get back the item you sent out .... theres not much more you can do.

BTW - on top of the return, on top of the possible defect if you DONT take it back, you can also still get a negative feedback ....

welcome to eBay 2018 😐
 

[bghunter916]

Sorry to hear this **bleep** but thats feebay, screw the seller hug the buyer..lol. No return policy is and has been a joke for some time now, really since the bay decided it was more interested in happy buyers than sellers you know back when they eliminated buyer feedback. Any return policy the seller makes will NOT be honored by feebay, no returns, return shipping etc. We actually quit selling for a while because of the crazy scammers out there. Just so every one knows, there is NO such thing as a No return policy and there is NO such thing as the buyer pays return shipping !! Telling sellers to set up a return policy is totally meaningless and useless.  Not so new at this just a new name... Good Luck

[phcd1]

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@theheadphonecompany wrote:
...2) they believe sellers are expendable - and in some sense they are. Theres always a million people looking to sell their items on eBay....

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I have to disagree, they might believe that but it's sellers that pay ALL the eBay Fee's. I have YET to receive an invoice from eBay as a buyer.

[theheadphonecompany]

Im not arguing with you on "the reality of it" - just what eBay THINKS it is.

Since its the buyer who pays the price - spends the money to buy something - its they who become "most holy" and are always right.

Thats why CS people will tell you "if you can get the buyer to admit to XXXXX or YYYYYY IN AN EMAIL, THEN AND ONLY THEN can we do something" .... why? because the admition og guilt gives eBay a justification to clamp down on the buyer.

Absent that admition - its all on the seller - it hasnt been 50/50 since Pierre was around.

[99623]

After calling the eBay staff, outside of the United States, I found someone who I could understand better than the others.

The buyer has not made contact with me for quite some time, and I asked for this to be removed and let me get on with my life. The response was positive, and I have a short window of opportunity to close this case. I'm not going to get my hopes up, as the eBay staff really don't impress me with confidence.

I have learned that I will never sell anything ever again on eBay, that buyer destroyed my confidence in eBay and when eBay gets re-organized with a new CEO, making the playing field equal for everyone, then I might sell again. Transparency is the key, knowing the buyer and seller is really important.